Sex threads? Always? Really? Ugh!

[k450ofu3k-gh-5ipe]

How do we know which is a debate thread and which isn't? Some time back it was common to put [Debate] (and other) type tags on threads to make their intent clear.

Maybe we can try something like that.

I have noticed people doing that. It's a good idea.

 

[hijklmnop]

I have noticed people doing that. It's a good idea.

I like that idea too.

 

[WalksWithChrist]

I have noticed people doing that. It's a good idea.

I like that idea too.

That's a second and a third on that one!

Any staffer reading this, can you pass that along to the folks working on guidelines for us?

 

[Boidae]

Sex threads of any kind are not supposed to be posted in the main Marrieds section. Why they left a portion of the SoP out addressing that, I don't know. But, I do believe they will be addressing that with the pending changes.

If one reads the SoP for the personal topics sub-forum, it clearly states there that sex-related issues in marriage can be addressed in the Struggles with Sexuality sub-forum of Recovery.

I am far from a prude, but I honestly don't get what all the stink and bother is about posting about sex. I have no desire to discuss my sex life, in any aspect, on the internet.

I do think there needs to be a place where people struggling can feel safe to find help and support. But, I don't think it needs to be in an area as unstructured as this one. Recovery is much better suited to address those issues, IMO.

I realize that this post is from the second page and it may have been responded to already, but I don't think sexual issues within a marriage should go to a "Struggles with Sexuality" forum. To me that type of forum is more suited for those confused with their sexuality. An example would be someone struggling with homosexual thoughts.

 

[FaithPrevails]

I realize that this post is from the second page and it may have been responded to already, but I don't think sexual issues within a marriage should go to a "Struggles with Sexuality" forum. To me that type of forum is more suited for those confused with their sexuality. An example would be someone struggling with homosexual thoughts.

It was put there b/c of the stricter constraints on posting. I don't think allowing them here is appropriate b/c the issues being posted about get swallowed up by people arguing about what the problem *really* is and what they think is the best way to address the problem. Rarely does the OP get any real help/support/advice that brings a way to find resolution to their situation. So, what good does it do to allow them here? None, IMO.

 

[WalksWithChrist]

It was put there b/c of the stricter constraints on posting. I don't think allowing them here is appropriate b/c the issues being posted about get swallowed up by people arguing about what the problem *really* is and what they think is the best way to address the problem. Rarely does the OP get any real help/support/advice that brings a way to find resolution to their situation. So, what good does it do to allow them here? None, IMO.

Really, you can make that case for any subject being discussed here.

From what I'm seeing there isn't much that can be discussed here that doesn't get swallowed up. I just don't see why the sex threads are singled out.

I think what needs to happen is that staff should include provisions for these threads in the guidelines they roll out for this forum. I agree with Boidae and the others. That just isn't an appropriate forum.

 

[Conservativation]

Actually that brings up a important point, WWC. I think what is happening is that the vocal minority who enjoys debating is monopolizing this CF sub-forum. I personally don't have a problem with that because I'm part of that vocal minority so when I see threads like the OP's I think, "what's the problem?"

My recommendation for those of you who don't enjoy debate threads is to create your own non debate threads and stay out of the debate threads! If you think you will be offended, don't click it! If you want to change the forum atmosphere then you must be more vocal by creating your own threads. You have the tools and the "create new thread" button. Use it!

WWC is right. People come to this forum for many different reasons. The people who seem the most vocal in this sub-forum are the ones who came to the forum for a good healthy debate. Personally I don't see anything wrong with that.

Excellent post. Some see these "debates" as bad as having leprosy. I personally see things like "thread drift thread" that way, they are less engaging that saying how ya doin while passing a stranger on the street, actually they seem like face bookish status updates, and I will make a guess that they stem sorta from that same urge, its just a guess, I have zero issue with someone who wants to read and post in them, but to me its like

"my souffle finally survived a rowdy game of Wii in the game room YEAH! "

and a response unrelated

"My niece Jody got her braces off"

as less than interesting

 

[mkgal1]

I realize that this post is from the second page and it may have been responded to already, but I don't think sexual issues within a marriage should go to a "Struggles with Sexuality" forum. To me that type of forum is more suited for those confused with their sexuality. An example would be someone struggling with homosexual thoughts.

That's my impression of that sub-forum as well. And really.....quite often, since so many marriage issues end up being manifested into sexual issues, it really isn't the "sex" that's the actual topic or struggle. Does that make sense? It is more "struggles with marriage"....."struggles with trying to merge lives with another person that has different ideas than I do" that comes out in the sexual relationship. Besides....what happens in this sub-forum normally, is that concepts are discussed....not personal situations.

 

[FaithPrevails]

Really, you can make that case for any subject being discussed here.

From what I'm seeing there isn't much that can be discussed here that doesn't get swallowed up. I just don't see why the sex threads are singled out.

I think what needs to happen is that staff should include provisions for these threads in the guidelines they roll out for this forum. I agree with Boidae and the others. That just isn't an appropriate forum.

Neither of my posts was necessarily agreeing that it was the appropriate forum. I was simply stating where those types of threads were determined to belong when they split the personal topics sub-forum into separate genders.

It doesn't matter to me, personally, where they are posted. I don't participate in them, anyway - other than to offer prayers.

 

[Conservativation]

I have noticed people doing that. It's a good idea.

the thing about marking "debate" is that technically debate is a rule violation, we are not supposed to debate, only discuss. Me....Id have thought if you were going to try and make a disticntion without a difference at least it would say we cant "argue" just "debate"...and then a whole "debate" ensued about the difference between debate and discussion.

If you were to eliminate debate, it goes a little like dallas outlined , hers specifically about sex, but I will say in general

if we have no debate, there will be threads where people say X is wonderful, others agree.....dead

there will be threads where someone says "i need help with X", others will say pray join church read these books and here are some hugs, oh, and get counseling.....dead

there will be threads about "your favorite ___________ (food, book, movie)"



And finally there will be the facebookish update threads with statements of status in real time.

None of these are truly engaging, meaning lots of inter-related posts back and forth, sure the status update ones can go on and on for dozens of pages, but there is no fellowship (to me) in people talking right past one another saying what they are doing....thats just my opinion, that some like it is fine....id just thought at least I come to forums to actually engage, not to proclaim some small thing Ive done and leave, but to engage back and forth, learn, teach, ask, explain, be convinced, convince, change my mind, change others minds,

 

[mkgal1]

I have noticed people doing that. It's a good idea.

I like that idea too.

That's a second and a third on that one!

Any staffer reading this, can you pass that along to the folks working on guidelines for us?

How do we know which is a debate thread and which isn't? Some time back it was common to put [Debate] (and other) type tags on threads to make their intent clear.

Maybe we can try something like that.

(Oh no! Here comes Negative Nelly....look out!)

The only problem with that is.....sometimes threads are started and that is NOT the intent (debate)....but, it becomes a debate for some reason (that's what happens when people see things in an opposite way).

I had no idea a thread titled, "What do PEOPLE (trying to get away from male vs female debates) want from marriage and how to obtain it?" would turn into a debate. At the same time there was another thread with a similar title, "What do Feminists want from marriage?" and I was trying to level things out. That didn't happen.

"Debate"...to me, is really just what the dictionary defines it as.....asking a question and allowing a group of people, some with alternate views, to answer. It's getting different perspectives. It's not about "teams" or "sides"....and it's when that happens that I agree......that's not good. It's not a contest.....there is no "prize"....at the end of the discussion, we don't "settle on" one certain protocal--we are all free to handle life the way we see fit, so what's the problem as long as no one gets insulting (which DOES happen). That's a problem.....but, IMO, that's a separate issue.

 

[FaithPrevails]

the thing about marking "debate" is that technically debate is a rule violation, we are not supposed to debate, only discuss. Me....Id have thought if you were going to try and make a disticntion without a difference at least it would say we cant "argue" just "debate"...and then a whole "debate" ensued about the difference between debate and discussion.

If you were to eliminate debate, it goes a little like dallas outlined , hers specifically about sex, but I will say in general

if we have no debate, there will be threads where people say X is wonderful, others agree.....dead

there will be threads where someone says "i need help with X", others will say pray join church read these books and here are some hugs, oh, and get counseling.....dead

there will be threads about "your favorite ___________ (food, book, movie)"



And finally there will be the facebookish update threads with statements of status in real time.

None of these are truly engaging, meaning lots of inter-related posts back and forth, sure the status update ones can go on and on for dozens of pages, but there is no fellowship (to me) in people talking right past one another saying what they are doing....thats just my opinion, that some like it is fine....id just thought at least I come to forums to actually engage, not to proclaim some small thing Ive done and leave, but to engage back and forth, learn, teach, ask, explain, be convinced, convince, change my mind, change others minds,

This is your opinion and you are certainly entitled to it, but it is *just* an opinion.

 

[mkgal1]

the thing about marking "debate" is that technically debate is a rule violation, we are not supposed to debate, only discuss. Me....Id have thought if you were going to try and make a disticntion without a difference at least it would say we cant "argue" just "debate"...and then a whole "debate" ensued about the difference between debate and discussion.

If you were to eliminate debate, it goes a little like dallas outlined , hers specifically about sex, but I will say in general

if we have no debate, there will be threads where people say X is wonderful, others agree.....dead

there will be threads where someone says "i need help with X", others will say pray join church read these books and here are some hugs, oh, and get counseling.....dead

there will be threads about "your favorite ___________ (food, book, movie)"



And finally there will be the facebookish update threads with statements of status in real time.

None of these are truly engaging, meaning lots of inter-related posts back and forth, sure the status update ones can go on and on for dozens of pages, but there is no fellowship (to me) in people talking right past one another saying what they are doing....thats just my opinion, that some like it is fine....id just thought at least I come to forums to actually engage, not to proclaim some small thing Ive done and leave, but to engage back and forth, learn, teach, ask, explain, be convinced, convince, change my mind, change others minds,

I agree. I'm under the impression that's the nature of forums.

If I were on a decorating forum, for instance.....and posted something like, "I LOVE XXX brand of paint....I don't mind paying $65/gallon for it....and driving an hour away isn't too inconvenient" and everyone just agreed. Gave me the little thumbs up guy....and clappy hands guys.....what help is that? Wouldn't it be more beneficial for someone to post, "Hey....I discovered XXY brand of paint, and it's only $35/gallon, and you can get it in town--they even have great colors to choose from." Some could actually see that as "debate" because that's an alternate view.....especially if the OP came back with....."Hey....thanks for your advice, but I am doing FINE with this paint....I SAID I didn't mind paying the cost or driving out of town, so I'm not sure why you felt your opinion was better than mine. I didn't even ASK for your opinion."

The OP may not benefit (as they closed their "ears" to the advice) but, the other readers may benefit. I have gleaned lots of information from other forums that I never even became a member of.....never got a username and password....never posted......just read, and took away useful information.

 

[Conservativation]

This is your opinion and you are certainly entitled to it, but it is *just* an opinion.

Thats your opinion and you are entitled to it

sheesh

I was clearly saying it was just my opinion....thats what "to me" means, and a couple other qualifiers I put there....so, er, why the need to do this?

i was literally expressing a personal preference which is by definition my opinion.

Its like if I said "I like ice cream" and you replied "thats just your opinion"

goodness, and this from the person who says no debate.....if someone cant even express an opinion and not be reminded its an opinion, then yea....maybe you should stay away from debates


Id actually like to know what I said thats wrong though.....

is it that thread drift thread type threads are not conversations? Im pretty sure that it doesnt meet the criteria for a conversation, unless people telling each other random things that are unrelated is a conversation

Is it that a thread expressing the positives of something would be limited to one, maybe twp posts from each member? I cant think of how one would go further, there are only so many ways to agree that something is good

I mean I clearly stated, if folks like that thats fine by me, Im not whining that the forum is cluttered up with that...i just cannot grasp why folks who have those available, and like those, want to whine about others in other types of threads.

 

[mkgal1]

This is your opinion and you are certainly entitled to it, but it is *just* an opinion.

Thats your opinion and you are entitled to it

sheesh

I was clearly saying it was just my opinion....thats what "to me" means, and a couple other qualifiers I put there....so, er, why the need to do this?

i was literally expressing a personal preference which is by definition my opinion.

Its like if I said "I like ice cream" and you replied "thats just your opinion"

goodness, and this from the person who says no debate.....if someone cant even express an opinion and not be reminded its an opinion, then yea....maybe you should stay away from debates


Id actually like to know what I said thats wrong though.....

I agree, Cons. For whatever it's worth.....I saw NOTHING wrong with what you said. You didn't belittle those that like the "fellowship" threads....you had the "to each his own" attitude--not trying to convince anyone to change.

I would think that whenever ANYONE posts, it is understood that what we are posting is *JUST* our opinion. It sort of goes with out saying, doesn't it? There doesn't seem to be a need for disclosures at the end--like the pharmaceutical commercials.

But....that is JUST my opinion.

 

[ImperialPhantom]

People are simply more likely to post about problems they are having than good things going on in life. People would rather vent the negative. I think it's just human nature.

 

[mkgal1]

I don't think it's a matter of wanting to vent the negative, it's just that unfortunately, that's what's usually difficult to process on our own and where we need others. What I mean is....what is there to process about positive things?

(Example....) " I got a raise today!!" What else can be said, other than...."yay for you"?

It's when we LOSE a job....and are having difficulty finding a new one, that we need the perspective of other people (and their support).

That's just my opinion though.

 

[WalksWithChrist]

Excellent post. Some see these "debates" as bad as having leprosy. I personally see things like "thread drift thread" that way, they are less engaging that saying how ya doin while passing a stranger on the street, actually they seem like face bookish status updates, and I will make a guess that they stem sorta from that same urge, its just a guess, I have zero issue with someone who wants to read and post in them, but to me its like

"my souffle finally survived a rowdy game of Wii in the game room YEAH! "

and a response unrelated

"My niece Jody got her braces off"

as less than interesting

It's called fellowship. And threads like that can and often are highly rewarding and serve as an almost purely "drama free" zone. They've been called "hang out" threads here at CF for some time. I remember some from the past that were very popular and really did have lots of back and forth interaction. Often highly informative or entertaining tangents are born from threads like that.

In all seriousness, I'd invite you to participate in threads like that. I think you in particular would benefit.


So your evaluation is just not accurate.

the thing about marking "debate" is that technically debate is a rule violation, we are not supposed to debate, only discuss. Me....Id have thought if you were going to try and make a disticntion without a difference at least it would say we cant "argue" just "debate"...and then a whole "debate" ensued about the difference between debate and discussion.

If you were to eliminate debate, it goes a little like dallas outlined , hers specifically about sex, but I will say in general

if we have no debate, there will be threads where people say X is wonderful, others agree.....dead

there will be threads where someone says "i need help with X", others will say pray join church read these books and here are some hugs, oh, and get counseling.....dead

there will be threads about "your favorite ___________ (food, book, movie)"



And finally there will be the facebookish update threads with statements of status in real time.

None of these are truly engaging, meaning lots of inter-related posts back and forth, sure the status update ones can go on and on for dozens of pages, but there is no fellowship (to me) in people talking right past one another saying what they are doing....thats just my opinion, that some like it is fine....id just thought at least I come to forums to actually engage, not to proclaim some small thing Ive done and leave, but to engage back and forth, learn, teach, ask, explain, be convinced, convince, change my mind, change others minds,

I was wondering about that. I wasn't sure if this forum allowed actual debates or not. Meaning formal ones more or less. Discussions I would think would be encouraged. But again, tags might be helpful. Even a [Praise] tag or something like that might let people know criticism won't be welcome there on that particular thread.

Just thoughts.

 

[Conservativation]

It's called fellowship. And threads like that can and often are highly rewarding and serve as an almost purely "drama free" zone. They've been called "hang out" threads here at CF for some time. I remember some from the past that were very popular and really did have lots of back and forth interaction. Often highly informative or entertaining tangents are born from threads like that.

In all seriousness, I'd invite you to participate in threads like that. I think you in particular would benefit.


So your evaluation is just not accurate.

I was wondering about that. I wasn't sure if this forum allowed actual debates or not. Meaning formal ones more or less. Discussions I would think would be encouraged. But again, tags might be helpful. Even a [Praise] tag or something like that might let people know criticism won't be welcome there on that particular thread.

Just thoughts.

My evaluation is neither accurate nor inaccurate....its my opinion, just like the fact that I dislike coconut is neither accurate nor inaccurate.

This idea therefore that I would benefit from it is what is flawed. Like ive said if you like it great, I beg you dont stop visiting them, I encourage everyone to visit them, i post there in a blue moon, usually something mildly humorous just for fun, because I have no interest to say "last night I finished repairing the wheel that fell off the mower" even though thats a true statement, or, yesterday was daughters 1st soccer game, also true....I personally cannot imagine how those random facts are interesting.

I once listened to my wife and a lady at the neighborhood pool talking, they were basically doing what that threat does, each would say "I" or "My (kids)" and tell what they liked or didnt like or whatever, and they did that for a good 20 minutes, they enjoyed it, it was fellowship for them, no problem, I get that for them, not for me. There was no engagement, just quoting actions and opinions in an unrelated string. Its OK if I dont like that, and I sincerely see no "benefit" from it.

Ive always been that way, I have a son the same way (there some facts) that he and I talk about this, he is college freshman so we can actually compare notes, I never had a large crowd of "friends" because of this tendency to not like extremely superficial talk, son is the same, he and I like to actually talk with someone for bonding, we dont bond at the surface level at all, maybe that limits us and makes us stuck with a handful of very good friends and not a gaggle of acquaintances we can run around with. But its how we are, and Im the same way online. I can easily go into goofy mode and make jokes even in serious threads and usually Im the only one doing it. I also find that odd, that humor in the midst of heated threads is rarely responded to, except by Dallas, she and I are kinda lonely in that.

anyway..there a bunch of random things

 

[Conservativation]

I agree, Cons. I would think that whenever ANYONE posts, it is understood that what we are posting is *JUST* our opinion. It sort of goes with out saying, doesn't it? There doesn't seem to be a need for disclosures at the end--like the pharmaceutical commercials.

But....that is JUST my opinion.

"If this causes a hard heart that lasts more than 4 hours see your Dr"