Sex... losing a part of yourself!?!?

[[serious]]

My Youth pastor did this paper related lesson just recently, except only modified and (in my opinion) improved. What he said this piece of paper represented a part of you, whenever you have sex with a person before marriage, that paper gets ripped in half, and the other half is left behind with the other person, and it keeps getting ripped in half with every person until its gone. And then he said that if you repent and ask Jesus for forgiveness, he will make you whole again, (getting a new slip of paper was the representation) but that doesn't mean once you get that new slip of paper that you can just turn around and rip it in half again.

That's still pretty horrifying. Sex in no way makes someone less of a person, before or after marriage.

 

[Tetra]

My Youth pastor did this paper related lesson just recently, except only modified and (in my opinion) improved. What he said this piece of paper represented a part of you, whenever you have sex with a person before marriage, that paper gets ripped in half, and the other half is left behind with the other person, and it keeps getting ripped in half with every person until its gone. And then he said that if you repent and ask Jesus for forgiveness, he will make you whole again, (getting a new slip of paper was the representation) but that doesn't mean once you get that new slip of paper that you can just turn around and rip it in half again.

Well, it was nice sentiment I suppose that he said Jesus can make you whole... but none of this is remotely Biblical.

Where in the Bible does it say you lose half of yourself if you have sex before marriage? Nowhere. This is simply the youth pastors own personal belief he's imposing on impressionable youth.

 

[Tetra]

That's still pretty horrifying. Sex in no way makes someone less of a person, before or after marriage.

Super weird and scary.

 

[Tetra]

This certainly stems from purity culture, which I highly disagree with. I don't understand things like purity rings and purity balls and what their purposes are, I think it's really weird.

We are not "pure" because we abstain from sex before marriage. Jesus said that if anyone lusts in their heart, then they are committing adultery, which means none of us are pure. We have all sinned, and premarital sex is no different. It's ridiculous to put people who don't have sex before marriage on a pedestal, and act like people who do are ruined and that they are "damaged goods".

That's not to say that premarital sex is okay, it's still a sin that people should not commit, but it is as forgivable as any other sin.

Purity balls are normal. Dads own their daughters virginity until the father eventually passes that ownership over to her future husband. Totally normal, and not creepy or weird or anything.

 

[EdyChristian28]

Um the reason why the girls are holding the white piece of paper and not the boys is because a woman's worth is measured by how used she is.
Since men use her for sex.

A man is measured by how much money he has. which is why women use men for that reason. By law. Divorce entitles a woman to half of a man's stuff and by law a man is only responsible to a woman if its his offspring so don't argue.

Yes. A woman is measured by her virginity and well when walking down that aisle I'm sure all men or well the one's who will admit.

They would prefer to have a woman who deserves wearing the white dress in marriage. Rather than women who had a lot of fun in college woohoo! Certainly woman would be disgusted to find out that their husband part took in a multisome. kinda breaks the heart.

But Not to worry we keep our secrets. Right ladies. Have all the fun, decide you want to be a bad girl for a while. and then act like it never happened cuz you've been down that road.
and then look for a nice guy. The one you wouldn't give the time of day. But you'd marry. awe. Brings a tear to the eye just thinking about what your dad doesn't know about her princess.

But to be fair. Good people should go with good people. Bad should go with the bad. Too bad we have so many people out to cause as much damage as they can. and corrupt who ever they can. And in turn those hurt go out and do the same, to someone who doesn't deserve it.
Cuz they're hurt. But what can I say. Your youth pastor was trying to hold women responsible to the idea that they have to close their legs but not the guys. Cuz that don't make for winners apparently. It makes for a loser. So I'm with you on that one sister.

^ also what you just said. Um that don't let you off the hook to go have sex, like it was a regular Friday and Saturday night with someone you found at the club.

Purity is required because if not, who would actually make the effort to be righteous, be not tempted, be I don't know not part of the problem of having kids outside of marriage, abortion, poverty stricken youth. Single mothers,
Single Fathers, yea a lot.

 

[Armoured]

Um the reason why the girls are holding the white piece of paper and not the boys is because a woman's worth is measured by how used she is.
Since men use her for sex.

A man is measured by how much money he has. which is why women use them for that reason. By law. Divorce entitles a woman to half of a man's stuff and by law a man is only responsible to a woman if its his offspring so don't argue.

Yes. A woman is measured by her virginity and well when walking down that aisle I'm sure all men or well the one's who will admit.

They would prefer to have a woman who deserves wearing the white dress in marriage. Rather than women who had a lot of fun in college woohoo! Certainly woman would be disgusted to find out that their husband part took in a multisome. kinda breaks the heart.

But Not to worry we keep our secrets. Right ladies. Have all the fun, decide you want to be a bad girl for a while. and then act like it never happened cuz you've been down that road.
and then look for a nice guy. The one you wouldn't give the time of day. But you'd marry. awe. Brings a tear to the eye just thinking about what your dad doesn't know about her princess.

But to be fair. Good people should go with good people. Bad should go with the bad. Too bad we have so many people out to cause as much damage as they can. and corrupt who ever they can. And in turn those are hurt go out and do the same, to someone who doesn't deserve it.
Cuz they were hurt. But what can I say. Your youth pastor was trying to hold women responsible to the idea that they have close their legs but not the guys. Cuz that don't make for winners apparently. It makes for a loser. So I'm with you on that one sister.

the 1920s called...

 

[EdyChristian28]

Not everyone grew up not getting beat up and in poverty without social security and having every kind of abuse living next to a crack house where random 18wheelers and dead bodies showed up. So ghetto, uh yea getto. And even teachers allow you to get beat up. In and outside of class. or have a Christian upbringing? living in house of a hoarder.
and then finding that when stricken with health problems your parents hate you for having them. but hey THATS NORMAL.

AND BY THE WAY, Your Quote. Yeah a GREAT DEPRESSION is coming so don't you worry.

 

[Armoured]

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

Well, since I've have been married for 14 years, and have no interest in prostitutes... for me, it's neither.

May I ask you a question though? Respectfully, and serious. In my experience, I've never seen anyone use the justification statement on anything other than sex related topics. Like, if I said I was trying to learn the definition of the term related to "kill", in thou shalt not kill. No one ever says, you're trying to justify murdering someone. You know what I mean, why is that?

A person joining the police force and contemplating the moral use of his sidearm might be accused of that very thing.

 

[trackstacks]

That sounds like a manipulative scare tactic.

 

[Kimchi Expert]

In some circles they still do this type of thing. It's a scare tactic that is filled with shame. It's to instill the need for chastity, and for some reason BOYS don't tend to receive the same type of approach. Sadly, both genders are made to feel that they are used goods if they do slip.

Nothing wrong with the conversation overall, but not in this way. It's damaging.

I agree with most of what you're saying, but I wouldn't assume that boys leave unscathed in this exercise. It is heavy responsibility to "own" the piece of paper that your tear away from a girl. Sex isn't free. It comes with various responsibilities. It is no small thing to own a piece of a girl's paper. Anyone who cannot confront this responsibility should not be tearing paper.

This kind of exercise should not occur, but the metaphor it invokes is definitely powerful.

 

[Tetra]

I agree with most of what you're saying, but I wouldn't assume that boys leave unscathed in this exercise. It is heavy responsibility to "own" the piece of paper that your tear away from a girl. Sex isn't free. It comes with various responsibilities. It is no small thing to own a piece of a girl's paper. Anyone who cannot confront this responsibility should not be tearing paper.

This kind of exercise should not occur, but the metaphor it invokes is definitely powerful.

I would argue a man is incapable of owning or "tearing" any piece of a woman to keep for themselves. Women aren't things to own. I think this only perpetuates incorrect notions about male / female dynamics within Christendom.

 

[Faith77]

I know I'm coming in late to this thread, but I only just stumbled upon it.

Thank you, Tetra, and Armoured, for persisting. It's been very refreshing and healing to read your posts. I'm embarrassed to say that I was also part of the purity culture and raised my children that way. I still have a young one, and have a beautiful relationship with that one because I now think and parent differently. I am trying to heal my relationships with my older children but I will have to live with the fact that the older children are damaged from the way they were raised.

It also dawned on me, as I read what your posts, that I was subjected to a lot of sexual abuse in my marriage, in spite of both my husband and I trying to stay pure before marriage and live "Biblical" lives after. Thank God He has delivered me from a dangerous marriage (although the abuse is chronic and never-ending, because we are both still involved in churches [albeit different ones], but he more so, to gain allies). What the church doesn't seem to get is that children continue to suffer, but that is going off topic now.

Back to the original topic, my experience is that having a lot of conventional teaching about sex before and in marriage did not prepare me for more important aspects of marriage, e.g. recognizing abuse. The church community I belonged to (a large one and influential one) prioritized and emphasized what I now to be unbiblical - patriarchal teaching about headship that included husbands "needing" sex, husbands being the head of the home, etc. And kids were taught stuff in youth group like the "sticky tape" object lesson about sex. But nothing about mutual respect, equality, or critical thinking. Doesn't make sense.

 

[Blade]

I was having a conversation with my wife about an experience she had in youth group as a young lady. This activity in youth groups was all the rage in the early 90's.

She said the youth pastor would have the girls hold a piece of paper while boys, one by one, would come up and rip a piece off (odd how the boys don't hold the paper).

The youth pastor would then claim that by having sex, girls lose a "piece of themselves". Like, how each boy owned a piece of the paper.

Okay, not only is this story so freaking disturbing and disgusting to me, if it was my daughter that this happened to in the youth group, I can't image how I'd react.

Where the heck is this in the Bible??

Its not...forgive them/him/her. An old song yet very true...part goes like this as it was talking to girls/boys..if you done it and you wonder what to do...go to Jesus and He will make you BRAND NEW!

Not 1/2...BRAND NEW! As if it NEVER happen.. HE DOES IT every day

 

[Tetra]

I know I'm coming in late to this thread, but I only just stumbled upon it.

Thank you, Tetra, and Armoured, for persisting. It's been very refreshing and healing to read your posts. I'm embarrassed to say that I was also part of the purity culture and raised my children that way. I still have a young one, and have a beautiful relationship with that one because I now think and parent differently. I am trying to heal my relationships with my older children but I will have to live with the fact that the older children are damaged from the way they were raised.

It also dawned on me, as I read what your posts, that I was subjected to a lot of sexual abuse in my marriage, in spite of both my husband and I trying to stay pure before marriage and live "Biblical" lives after. Thank God He has delivered me from a dangerous marriage (although the abuse is chronic and never-ending, because we are both still involved in churches [albeit different ones], but he more so, to gain allies). What the church doesn't seem to get is that children continue to suffer, but that is going off topic now.

Back to the original topic, my experience is that having a lot of conventional teaching about sex before and in marriage did not prepare me for more important aspects of marriage, e.g. recognizing abuse. The church community I belonged to (a large one and influential one) prioritized and emphasized what I now to be unbiblical - patriarchal teaching about headship that included husbands "needing" sex, husbands being the head of the home, etc. And kids were taught stuff in youth group like the "sticky tape" object lesson about sex. But nothing about mutual respect, equality, or critical thinking. Doesn't make sense.

When I rated your thread a "winner", it was in support of you. I'm sorry to hear about your experiences. Unfortunately, even on this forum as we speak, there are those who advocate a patriarchal view of Christendom. It's sad that I even have to explain how women are not things one can own.

 

[Faith77]

Thank you, Tetra! Thanks especially for starting this much-needed discussion.

EdyChristian28 said: A man is measured by how much money he has. which is why women use men for that reason. By law. Divorce entitles a woman to half of a man's stuff and by law a man is only responsible to a woman if its his offspring so don't argue.

Not true where I live. Upon divorce, a woman is entitled to half of their marital assets, taking into consideration how long they have been married, how much each brought into the marriage, and what their future needs are. It's not HIS stuff; it's their stuff and each party to the divorce is taking a rightful and reasonable amount, normally half. My ex-husband complains that I have taken half his money, but why doesn't it occur to him that he has taken half my money? Especially as he insisted that everything was shared in marriage (I was not allowed to have my own money). Again...doesn't make sense. I guess bad teaching never does.

 

[TKICBS]

Now that said, I think it is the job of the parents, and not a pastor and the classmates to be teaching this to other children.

It is a job for the parents but most parents are so broken they can't teach it.

 

[Abbagirl2017]

It is indeed a shaming tactic, but there is some truth behind it. People will resist this, but men and women are not the same, we are not equal. If you do some research, the biggest indicator of whether a marriage is going to end in divorce or not is how many partners the FEMALE has had before the marriage.

"If a man divorces his wife and she leaves him and marries another man, should he return to her again? Would not the land be completely defiled?" - Jeremiah 3:1b

That verse is one of several examples the Bible makes comparing men to sowers of seed, and the woman to the ground the seed goes into.

It's actually pretty literal. Research microchimerism and telegony. You will see that the seminal fluids of men contain DNA in it, and when women have casual sex with men, the DNA of these men gets into the woman's blood stream and becomes a part of her body, permanently. One flesh, right? Furthermore, when she finally has children, her children even carry traits and dna from her previous partners even though it was her current man who sired the children. This is why it is called "adultery" when the married woman is with a man who is not her husband, the land is being polluted, adulterated. It's not reversable, so I'd definitely say the woman is losing pieces of herself through casual sex.

Wow..I like how you went into that because males and females need to understand God knows what he talking about!

 

[s3anreilly]

I was having a conversation with my wife about an experience she had in youth group as a young lady. This activity in youth groups was all the rage in the early 90's.

She said the youth pastor would have the girls hold a piece of paper while boys, one by one, would come up and rip a piece off (odd how the boys don't hold the paper).

The youth pastor would then claim that by having sex, girls lose a "piece of themselves". Like, how each boy owned a piece of the paper.

Okay, not only is this story so freaking disturbing and disgusting to me, if it was my daughter that this happened to in the youth group, I can't image how I'd react.

Where the heck is this in the Bible??

You could argue that when you enter in sexual oneness with another person.. this is a joining of the spirits. The women at the well had several 'husbands' or in other words affairs outside of marriage. To be in unity with another person sexually is damaging if not with, essentially, the same person for the rest of your life. When you meet the person you want to spend the rest of your life with (if you believe in life long partnership).. and you have to deal with feelings of intimidation and jealousy to do with your partners inevitable comparisons. The intersection of memories of past sexual experience with your life partner is not congruent with lifetime partnership. This may be due to body image or preferences or even flavours of sexual endeavour. Teens. especially.. primarily through inappropriate content, develop appetites through fantasy and exploration of partners. 1 Cor 6v8 clearly communicates that sexual sin goes against our bodies.. that is our carnal minds and members. To me it is clear that sexual activity outside of your life partner corrupts and damages (tears and leaves scars on the mind and spirit) and needs time to heal and to establish new pathways of thinking to overcome the past and support their life partner in the future. I think people would much prefer to meet a life partner who hadn't had previous sexual experiences and establish our 'normal' together.. on a exciting new journey together. For those who have journeyed with others there will need to be some accounting of how to move forward.

 

[Kimchi Expert]

It is indeed a shaming tactic, but there is some truth behind it. People will resist this, but men and women are not the same, we are not equal. If you do some research, the biggest indicator of whether a marriage is going to end in divorce or not is how many partners the FEMALE has had before the marriage.

"If a man divorces his wife and she leaves him and marries another man, should he return to her again? Would not the land be completely defiled?" - Jeremiah 3:1b

That verse is one of several examples the Bible makes comparing men to sowers of seed, and the woman to the ground the seed goes into.

It's actually pretty literal. Research microchimerism and telegony. You will see that the seminal fluids of men contain DNA in it, and when women have casual sex with men, the DNA of these men gets into the woman's blood stream and becomes a part of her body, permanently. One flesh, right? Furthermore, when she finally has children, her children even carry traits and dna from her previous partners even though it was her current man who sired the children. This is why it is called "adultery" when the married woman is with a man who is not her husband, the land is being polluted, adulterated. It's not reversable, so I'd definitely say the woman is losing pieces of herself through casual sex.

No offense, but this is complete nonsense. Not only is your disgusting explanation of how DNA is changed by seminal fluids incorrect based on science, but it's as valid an argument as saying that your DNA is changed because someone sneezes on you and you catch a cold from them.