Seventh-Day Adventist Beliefs? are they absolute?

[moicherie]

Moicherie, you may speak for yourself if you wish when you say: However please don't try to include me when you say "we." And, no, the principal isn't modesty alone. In the case of piercings there is direct biblical prohibition against it. A lady's hat may or may not be imodest, but it certainly showes blatent selfishness to interfear with anothers enjoyment of a worship service and a desire to be the center of attention rather than the worship of God being the object of attention.

Respectfully,
Doc

The 'we' is a generalised 'we'. And the prinicple is modesty which is the doctrine we promote when we use the Peter text about adornment. That same text talks aobut plaiting annd braiding of hair and wearing of apparel yet the church does not promote the doctrine of do not comb your hair and do not wear apparel yet we use that text and tell people it means do not wear jewelry or makeup..

BTW there is also direct prohibition against wearing clothes with mixed fibres, and not shaving. God does not call us to live exactly like 1st century Middle Eastern people living in tents who had the right to stone their disobedient children, do you promote that as well?

 

[moicherie]

I would suggest that you don't get caught up with rules. Rules change with time but principles last forever. Live by Biblical principles. Modesty is the principle. Keep your eyes focused on Jesus and His love for you. Jesus said abide in Him and He will abide in you and you will bear much fruit to His Glory.

DD

Amen!

 

[Dania]

i have prayed and ask the Lord to show me His way. but dont u see that U people are tools of God. dont i need some wordin or pointer from more widely read servants? i am not gullible tho i just need to see the reasons for these grey areas! anyway on the issue of jewelry i never fully supported it FOR IT WILL NOT HELP A THING! it more waste money more than anything. and now with bible evidence i further support this FACT

 

[Dania]

wel 1 thing i sorta use to discern between good and bad wen faced wit topics in a grey area, i lean toward the opposed minority. this often time leaves my spirit at rest but sets my flesh on fire. its not easy. few wil take the narrow road to LIFE! most wil enter the big gate. why do you think Jesus said this?! U dont think my God is practical? the purpose and esteem of jewels has never changed from then til now. who has ears let him hear! if u wana waste money and emphasis on these things thats ur bizniz

 

[RC_NewProtestants]

Moicherie, you may speak for yourself if you wish when you say: However please don't try to include me when you say "we." And, no, the principal isn't modesty alone. In the case of piercings there is direct biblical prohibition against it. A lady's hat may or may not be imodest, but it certainly showes blatent selfishness to interfear with anothers enjoyment of a worship service and a desire to be the center of attention rather than the worship of God being the object of attention.

If we look at this so called direct biblical prohibition we see that is nothing more than Batchelor's old manipulation tricks. You always must remember that Batchelor is an Evangelist not a Biblical scholar. this is apparently what Doc thinks is the prohibition.
From Batchelor's book:

I believe angels turn away their faces and weep when professed Christians pierce, scar, chain, mutilate, and tattoo their bodies as a sacrifice to the gods of fad and fashion. God plainly says of His people: "They shall not make ... any cuttings in their flesh. They shall be holy unto their God." Leviticus 21:5, 6. And if God says we should not cut our bodies, what makes us think that piercing the ears is somehow permissible?

The verse of course is not even talking about such things as piercing for jewelery, the verses say:

(Lev 21:5 NIV) "'Priests must not shave their heads or shave off the edges of their beards or cut their bodies.

(Lev 21:6 NIV) They must be holy to their God and must not profane the name of their God. Because they present the offerings made to the LORD by fire, the food of their God, they are to be holy.

It continues in verse 9 talking about what to do with a Priest's daughter:

(Lev 21:9 NIV) "'If a priest's daughter defiles herself by becoming a prostitute, she disgraces her father; she must be burned in the fire.

So you get a flavor of what the instructions in this section of Leviticus is about. Nothing to do with jewelery. What is interesting is that there is an aspect of "cutting oneself" which may also apply here aside from the prohibition of shaving which no doubt with that technology frequently would have involved cutting oneself. That is found in :

(Lev 19:27 NIV) "'Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard.

(Lev 19:28 NIV) "'Do not cut your bodies for the dead or put tattoo marks on yourselves. I am the LORD.

Apparently one of the ways of mourning for the dead was to cut oneself. possibly similar to the actions of the priests of Baal who Elijah had a showdown with.

wikipedia notes the following:

According to biblical scholars, the shaving of hair, particularly of the corners of the beard, was originally a mourning custom[8]; the behaviour appears, from the Book of Jeremiah, to also have been practiced by Arabic tribes[9][10][11], although some ancient manuscripts of the text read live in remote places rather than clip the corners of their hair. Biblical scholars think that the regulations against shaving hair may be an attack on the practice of offering hair to the dead, which was performed in the belief that it would obtain protection in sheol[12]; Nazarites shaved after contact with a corpse, captive women shaved after mourning the death of their parents, and the general prohibition in the Holiness Code is immediately followed by a rule against people cutting their own bodies for the benefit of the dead[13].
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaving_in_Judaism

The point here is that the verse Batchelor cites has nothing to do with jewelry, it would seriously take fulltime people just to correct the misinformation Batchelor relays, I know I don't have time to do it.

But does the Bible express anything about piercing? Yes it does.

(Exo 21:5 NIV) "But if the servant declares, 'I love my master and my wife and children and do not want to go free,'

(Exo 21:6 NIV) then his master must take him before the judges. He shall take him to the door or the doorpost and pierce his ear with an awl. Then he will be his servant for life.

Now maybe people can understand why I so detest the material Doug Batchelor puts out. And why it should never be taken as the official Adventist position. Because even if he is close to the Adventist position his material is so poorly researched that it is an embarrassment to the denomination.

 

[thecountrydoc]

RC, Please note the phrases that I have made bold and italisized in this official statement from the General Conference of the Seventh-day Adventist church. As I have said elswhere, while there is not always a "thus saith the Lord" command for every action taken or not taken, there are pleanty of biblical principals involved here.

SDA FUNDIMENTAL BELIEF #22;

22. Christian Behavior:
We are called to be a godly people who think, feel, and act in harmony with the principles of heaven. For the Spirit to recreate in us the character of our Lord we involve ourselves only in those things which will produce Christlike purity, health, and joy in our lives. This means that our amusement and entertainment should meet the highest standards of Christian taste and beauty. While recognizing cultural differences, our dress is to be simple, modest, and neat, befitting those whose true beauty does not consist of outward adornment but in the imperishable ornament of a gentle and quiet spirit. It also means that because our bodies are the temples of the Holy Spirit, we are to care for them intelligently. Along with adequate exercise and rest, we are to adopt the most healthful diet possible and abstain from the unclean foods identified in the Scriptures. Since alcoholic beverages, tobacco, and the irresponsible use of drugs and narcotics are harmful to our bodies, we are to abstain from them as well. Instead, we are to engage in whatever brings our thoughts and bodies into the discipline of Christ, who desires our wholesomeness, joy, and goodness. (Rom. 12:1, 2; 1 John 2:6; Eph. 5:1-21; Phil. 4:8; 2 Cor. 10:5; 6:14-7:1; 1 Peter 3:1-4; 1 Cor. 6:19, 20; 10:31; Lev. 11:1-47; 3 John 2.)

In your attempts to find fault and discredit Pastor Doug, and me, you have completely over looked the biblical principals involved . You have overlooked the same in Fundimental Belief #22. You have also mistakenly presumed to know what I believe.

You also say:

The point here is that the verse Batchelor cites has nothing to do with jewelry, it would seriously take fulltime people just to correct the misinformation Batchelor relays, I know I don't have time to do it.

The same applies to me when I say I don't have the time to give you an indepth study on this entire topic right now. I should also say that for you to attempt to undertake "to correct the misinformation Batchelor relays" will take a great amount of time because it will be impossible.

At least you acknowledge that the Bible does say something about piercing with this statement:

But does the Bible express anything about piercing? Yes it does.

Unfortunately this is not the only passage that may be used to support the principals expressed by Pastor Batchelor or Fundimental Belief #22.

Your interjection from Wikipedia is not on topic, nor is Wikipedia consedered a respected sorce for biblical research by academics.

What you have accomplished with your post, is to show your dislike for anything about the teachings of the SDA church, and your appearent contempt for those who agree with it's teachings. If you wish to disagree that is your choice and I do not want to attempt to change you mind. On the other hand when your statements and actions may serve to be a stumbling block to those new to Bible study and new to being a Seventh-day Adventist, it should come as no supprise that those of us who do accept the teachings of the SDA church, are going to take a stand against what you may say against said teachings.

Respectfully,
Doc

 

[Dania]

RC u seem anti-batchelor man.. geez is not only what the man says.. he just allows u to think.

dint he use other scriptures to support .what about them?? well this is the prob i have with christianity.. too much sides. i need one whole effort put out to find what is what and what is not.

anyway.. are u declaring then RC that it is okay to wear jewelry??? if thats the point while u disprove one scripture reference of batchelor.. is the whole truth a lie. can we atually wear jewels and diamonds and whatnot? thats the question i am asking. so batchelor has a side. whats the other side
. give me your side so that i can see. makes no sense argue and not even answer the question the thread is about..


i nuh too too support jewelry tho..
anyway: question to adventist. if i get a ring. a school ring from my step father should i wear it. lol! i dint waste money buy it lol so should i put it up mek it lost and i cyaa find it or should wear it? i have been wearing it for 2 years til i almost forget i have it on more time. not an adornment really its basically uniform at my school


NB: i take everything said into consideration. dont believe that i'm a stupid litte girl. lol i just need input from others to .. you know. hep in my thinking process so i may not over look anything.

 

[moicherie]

The fact is Doc the bible is not anti jewelry, and our attempts at manipulation of the bible says it all. If church members decide to spend money on cheap or expensive jewels is no more my or your business if they decided to buy a cheap or expensive, clothes, car or house. Perhaps if we spent more time dealing with th beams in our eye and less in hunting the stick in others such questions would not be a concern.

 

[moicherie]

My dear if you want to wear your school ring, wear your school ring. The prinicple is modesty and for Adventists to target jewels and makeup only as immodest is hypocritical.

 

[thecountrydoc]

Moicherie, as I have said repeatedly else where in this thread, the final choice of what to do, or not do, is always up to the individual.

In your post where you stated;

The fact is Doc the bible is not anti jewelry, and our attempts at manipulation of the bible says it all. If church members decide to spend money on cheap or expensive jewels is no more my or your business if they decided to buy a cheap or expensive, clothes, car or house. Perhaps if we spent more time dealing with th beams in our eye and less in hunting the stick in others such questions would not be a concern.

Please note that all I have done is attempt to answer honest questions ask in the OP. I also have stated that there has not been, nor will there be, any condemnation or ridicule over such matters. You are 100% correct when you indicate that there are better ways to spend our time. That is why I try to spend as little time as possible in debate with other SDAs. It is also the reason I have defended the biblical principlas involved when honest questions have been ask by a new Adventist.

Your final statement to the original poster:

"My dear if you want to wear your school ring, wear your school ring. The prinicple is modesty and for Adventists to target jewels and makeup only as immodest is hypocritical."

I must now ask this question. Are you really as contemptous of those who accept biblical principals as this statement would seem to indicate? I also have to question the impression that has been made on the original poster.

Respectfully,
Doc

 

[RC_NewProtestants]

Doc, I dealt with what "pastor Doug" said and what you said . I did not violate in principle in pointing out his errors. You apparently have not read any material that is in line with what Wikipedia says. I have but chose to use something that was easily accessible. Of course you may think that I went against some principle as you understand them. I tend to think you are merely taking your prejudices to be principles however.

So Dania does the Bible condemn Jewelry? No it does not there are several references to putting on jewelry. signet rings were a commonly used item by the royalty.

(Hag 2:23 NIV) "'On that day,' declares the LORD Almighty, 'I will take you, my servant Zerubbabel son of Shealtiel,' declares the LORD, 'and I will make you like my signet ring, for I have chosen you,' declares the LORD Almighty."

The Prodigal son received a ring from his father at his return.

(Luke 15:22 NIV) "But the father said to his servants, 'Quick! Bring the best robe and put it on him. Put a ring on his finger and sandals on his feet.

James makes no complaint against the man with a ring and fine clothes, he objects to the preferential treatment the more well attired is given.

(James 2:1 NIV) My brothers, as believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ, don't show favoritism.

(James 2:2 NIV) Suppose a man comes into your meeting wearing a gold ring and fine clothes, and a poor man in shabby clothes also comes in.

(James 2:3 NIV) If you show special attention to the man wearing fine clothes and say, "Here's a good seat for you," but say to the poor man, "You stand there" or "Sit on the floor by my feet,"

No complaints about rings in the Bible. What about other adornment?
Ishmaelites customarly wore Gold earrings

(Judg 8:24 NIV) And he said, "I do have one request, that each of you give me an earring from your share of the plunder." (It was the custom of the Ishmaelites to wear gold earrings.)

Solomon was given assortments of fine gifts:

(1 Ki 10:25 NIV) Year after year, everyone who came brought a gift--articles of silver and gold, robes, weapons and spices, and horses and mules.

One of the powerful symbols used in Christianity is the golden crown or someone dressed as a bride

(Psa 21:3 NIV) You welcomed him with rich blessings and placed a crown of pure gold on his head.

(Psa 45:9 NIV) Daughters of kings are among your honored women; at your right hand is the royal bride in gold of Ophir.

Proverbs compares good words to Jewelry

(Prov 25:11 NIV) A word aptly spoken is like apples of gold in settings of silver.

(Prov 25:12 NIV) Like an earring of gold or an ornament of fine gold is a wise man's rebuke to a listening ear.

It is mentioned in the Song of songs

(Song 1:11 NIV) We will make you earrings of gold, studded with silver.

When choosing Rebekkah for Isaac's wife she is given jewelry:

(Gen 24:22 NIV) When the camels had finished drinking, the man took out a gold nose ring weighing a beka and two gold bracelets weighing ten shekels.
(Gen 24:30 NIV) As soon as he had seen the nose ring, and the bracelets on his sister's arms, and had heard Rebekah tell what the man said to her, he went out to the man and found him standing by the camels near the spring.

Jewelry is referred to as aiding in beauty and as something God gives. Yet even things of beauty can be misused:

(Ezek 16:13 NIV) So you were adorned with gold and silver; your clothes were of fine linen and costly fabric and embroidered cloth. Your food was fine flour, honey and olive oil. You became very beautiful and rose to be a queen.

(Ezek 16:14 NIV) And your fame spread among the nations on account of your beauty, because the splendor I had given you made your beauty perfect, declares the Sovereign LORD.

(Ezek 16:15 NIV) "'But you trusted in your beauty and used your fame to become a prostitute. You lavished your favors on anyone who passed by and your beauty became his.

(Ezek 16:16 NIV) You took some of your garments to make gaudy high places, where you carried on your prostitution. Such things should not happen, nor should they ever occur.

(Ezek 16:17 NIV) You also took the fine jewelry I gave you, the jewelry made of my gold and silver, and you made for yourself male idols and engaged in prostitution with them.

(Isa 3:18 NIV) In that day the Lord will snatch away their finery: the bangles and headbands and crescent necklaces,

(Isa 3:19 NIV) the earrings and bracelets and veils,

(Isa 3:20 NIV) the headdresses and ankle chains and sashes, the perfume bottles and charms,

(Isa 3:21 NIV) the signet rings and nose rings,

(Isa 3:22 NIV) the fine robes and the capes and cloaks, the purses

(Isa 3:23 NIV) and mirrors, and the linen garments and tiaras and shawls.

Does the Bible condemn the wearing of Jewelry. No but neither does Jewelry make a person special because what a person is like is more important. I don't wear jewelry and I don't care if someone wears jewelry or not. The other day at a board meeting a member of the board who is a jeweler showed a huge diamond ring to some of the people. 45,000 dollar ring all I could think about was how that would snag or scratch things. But the lady who enjoys rings thought it was beautiful. To her she said it would show that her husband really loved her. I don't think that way. I would think a $45,000 car would show my wife my love better then a ring. But that is me. To me seeing that ring on her finger versus the ring she had on would have been no different. 200 or 200,000 dollar ring would look the same to me.

If the issue is wasting money then fine sell your jewelry or never start and maybe that could apply to your hobbies or collections also. Same for shoes or clothes or food though however. For most people in this country jewelry is not really about the price as about accessories. Even the rich who may have expensive jewelry may only wear costume jewelry when out and about.

But you have to decide what kind of car you drive or home you buy or what kind of clothes you wear. And you have to decide if you wear jewelry or not. It is not an issue that Christianity in the main has been concerned about. Puritan's did and that is where our church got it's idea against jewelry, but Puritan Christianity was all about forcing observance to rules for the sake of salvation. It was not the kind of Christianity that Jesus and the Apostles taught.

this sums it up.

So 1 Tim. 2:9,10 and 1 Pet. 3:1-6 are not absolutely forbidding wearing of all braids, gold, etc. They are simply saying that these are not what is important. They may in some cases be so extreme that they violate the modest quietness that should characterize godly women (cf. Isa. 3:16-24). This should be avoided.


But the main point in this part of the verses is to contrast physical clothing with spiritual. Women should be far more concerned about clothing themselves with good works than they are with physical, outward beauty. And we as men should seek wives with inward purity as far more important than outward beauty.


So the emphasis in context seems to be on: (1) not over-dressing for the sake of vanity, pride, and being able to exalt oneself by showing off one's expensive and beautiful wardrobe; (2) not over-emphasizing outward beauty to the neglect of inward character.
http://www.gospelway.com/topics/morality/wearing_jewelry.php

 

[Dania]

well thank u all for the input once again..
interesting read RC

well to answer your question Doc:

i .. since i became a christian (i was agnostic) dint really love jewelry not only because of the SDA way of life, but because it will not make me any wiser .. it will not help me serve God.. u kno what i mean? plus ppl are defending it so much i just feel that there is something wrong. however i havent fully stopped wearing it. i wear my ring and a chain from time to time.. but i just feel like its a waste of time and money if i should invest in it.. RC u speak about it being the same as clothes etc but it is not... its an accessory.. not necesity. for i even left alone fashion. for i am looking at it as focusing on self and not Christ.. but still i dont really see any PROOF and to why it is a "DO NOT" rule. and now with scriptures provided i see a DONOT and then with RC's reply i see an ITS OKAY signal....
what i have grasped from romans (i think..) is "I CAN DO.. BUT NOT BE GOVERNED BY X" i think thats what paul sed. supm like that. but still even if can wear all the jewels i want. i will not do it so much because my conscience is weak , so to speak, my spirit says "why are u wasting time doing this... it doesnt help u get closer to God".. but thats just me..

same with make up i wear face powder to cover my spots but still the colored stuff i loved to match my outfits and so... i havent been doing that laterly for it seems overboard. so i still do it.. but i dont know. to me its a modesty thing. whatever modesty means is to u ppl. to me modestly is little to nothing. i go only X far and my spirit sez "Why Bother?"

 

[Sophia7]

Great post, RC. Here are my thoughts, which will overlap with yours somewhat; this is part of a previous post that I wrote.

I've seen this text used to support the idea that jewelry is sinful:

EZE 7:19 They will throw their silver into the streets, and their gold will be an unclean thing. Their silver and gold will not be able to save them in the day of the LORD's wrath. They will not satisfy their hunger or fill their stomachs with it, for it has made them stumble into sin.
​

Those who quote it for that purpose, though, take it out of context. Here are the next few verses:

EZE 7:20 They were proud of their beautiful jewelry and used it to make their detestable idols and vile images. Therefore I will turn these into an unclean thing for them. 21 I will hand it all over as plunder to foreigners and as loot to the wicked of the earth, and they will defile it. 22 I will turn my face away from them, and they will desecrate my treasured place; robbers will enter it and desecrate it.
​

The problem isn't with jewelry itself but with people's attitudes toward it. Jewelry can become a stumbling block or even an idol, but that doesn't make wearing it inherently sinful. When quoting OT texts that talk about God stripping people of their jewelry, people often overlook the passages that describe it as His gift in the first place, such as this:

EZE 16:6 " `Then I passed by and saw you kicking about in your blood, and as you lay there in your blood I said to you, "Live!" 7 I made you grow like a plant of the field. You grew up and developed and became the most beautiful of jewels. Your breasts were formed and your hair grew, you who were naked and bare.

EZE 16:8 " `Later I passed by, and when I looked at you and saw that you were old enough for love, I spread the corner of my garment over you and covered your nakedness. I gave you my solemn oath and entered into a covenant with you, declares the Sovereign LORD, and you became mine.

EZE 16:9 " `I bathed you with water and washed the blood from you and put ointments on you. 10 I clothed you with an embroidered dress and put leather sandals on you. I dressed you in fine linen and covered you with costly garments. 11 I adorned you with jewelry: I put bracelets on your arms and a necklace around your neck, 12 and I put a ring on your nose, earrings on your ears and a beautiful crown on your head. 13 So you were adorned with gold and silver; your clothes were of fine linen and costly fabric and embroidered cloth. Your food was fine flour, honey and olive oil. You became very beautiful and rose to be a queen. 14 And your fame spread among the nations on account of your beauty, because the splendor I had given you made your beauty perfect, declares the Sovereign LORD.

EZE 16:15 " `But you trusted in your beauty and used your fame to become a prostitute. You lavished your favors on anyone who passed by and your beauty became his. 16 You took some of your garments to make gaudy high places, where you carried on your prostitution. Such things should not happen, nor should they ever occur. 17 You also took the fine jewelry I gave you, the jewelry made of my gold and silver, and you made for yourself male idols and engaged in prostitution with them. 18 And you took your embroidered clothes to put on them, and you offered my oil and incense before them. 19 Also the food I provided for you--the fine flour, olive oil and honey I gave you to eat--you offered as fragrant incense before them. That is what happened, declares the Sovereign LORD.
​

Ezekiel compares Jerusalem to a woman that God lavished with jewels. The problem was that she became enamored with her own beauty and turned her jewels into idols; the jewels themselves are not described in a negative light but as a positive gift from God to His chosen bride.

Also, in Isaiah 3, God said that He would take away all of their ornaments because they had sinned and oppressed the poor. The Bible doesn't say that the jewelry itself was evil but only that it was taken from them as a punishment for their sins. God also said in that passage that He was going to take away their hair and their clothing, but we wouldn't conclude from this that we should all be bald and wear sackcloth. At least I hope not!

If you look at all of the references to jewelry in the Bible, most of them are positive. In Song of Solomon, the bride's beauty is compared to jewels, and she wears jewels as well. Isaiah 54 speaks of God's people as His bride being called back to Him and His city being rebuilt with jewels. Isaiah 61 speaks of a bride adorning herself with jewels. Jeremiah 2:32 asks, "Does a maiden forget her jewelry, a bride her wedding ornaments? Yet my people have forgotten me, days without number." Zechariah 9 speaks of God's people sparkling like jewels in a crown. Even the tabernacle was adorned with precious metals and rich fabrics and the priestly garments with gems (Ex. 25). Revelation portrays the New Jerusalem as filled with gold and precious gems. I just don't get the idea from any of this that God hates jewelry.

On the other hand, Jeremiah 4 speaks metaphorically of a devastated woman adorning herself in vain--in vain because she has been unfaithful to God. In Exodus 32, the Israelites made the golden calf out of their earrings, and in chapter 33, they were forced to take off their ornaments because they had worshiped the idol. Judges 8 describes how Gideon made an idol out of the gold earrings that he took from part of the plunder after defeating the Midianites. In all of these examples, the sin was not in the jewelry itself; it was in what was done with it. When it was taken away, it was a punishment for their sins.

In the New Testament we find the oft-quoted texts that Adventists use to proof‑text the jewelry doctrine:

1 Peter 3:3 Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as braided hair and the wearing of gold jewelry and fine clothes. 4 Instead, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God's sight.
__________________________________________

1 Timothy 2:9 I also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, 10 but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God.
​

First of all, not many Adventists object to women braiding their hair. Most Adventist women that I know wear makeup as well although the Church Manual condemns cosmetics as "not in keeping with good taste" (p. 177). People pick out the parts of this that they like and ignore the rest, like 1 Tim. 2:8, which says that men should lift up holy hands in prayer. And when it comes to verses 11‑12, telling women to be silent in church and not to have authority over men, well, those are interpreted as cultural. If the part about women is cultural, then why not the part about jewelry?

I believe that these texts are talking about focusing on our inward characters and not getting caught up in our physical appearances. True beauty comes from within, not from outward adornment. That does not, however, mean that all jewelry is evil. It means that we should not depend on it to make us beautiful. The overwhelming evidence from the Bible shows that the wearing of jewelry is not viewed as sinful, even by God, as long as it doesn't become an idol or an obsession.

 

[Sophia7]

well tank u all for the input once again..
interesting read RC

well to answer your question Doc:

i .. since i became a christian (i was agnostic) dint really love jewelry not only because of the SDA way of life, but because it will not make me any wiser .. it will not help me serve God.. u kno what i mean? plus ppl are defending it so much i just feel that there is something wrong. however i havent fully stopped wearing it. i wear my ring and a chain from time to time.. but i just feel like its a waste of time.. is and money if i should invest in it.. RC u speak about it being the same as clothes etc but it is not... its an accessory.. not necesity. for i even left alone fashion. for i am looking at it as focusing on self and not christ.. bu still i dont really see any PROOF and to why it is a DO NOT rule. and now with scriptures provided i see a DO and the with RC's reply i see an ITS OKAY signal....
what i have grasp from romans i think.. is "I CAN DO.. BUT NOT BE GOVERNED BY X" i think thats what paul sed. supm like that. but still even if can wear all he jewels i want. i will not do it so much for my conscience is weak , so to speak, my spirit says why are u wasting time doing this... it doesnt help u get closer to God.. but thats just me..

same with make up i wear face powder to cover my spots but still the colored stuff i loved to match my outfits and so... i havent been doing that laterly for it seems overboard. but i dont know. to mean its a modesty thing. whatever it is to u ppl. to me modestly is little to now. i go X far my spirit sez "Why Bother?"

Think about which parts of your clothes are actually necessities and which parts are just ornamentation. Are buttons necessary? The Amish don't believe so; they don't use them for their clothing. Do you have any clothes with designs printed on the fabric or lace added?

If we wore only what was necessary, we would all wear very plain clothing with no embellishments whatsoever. Now, if you want to do that, that's up to you. If you feel that jewelry is a waste of money or that it hinders your walk with God, you have every right to refrain from wearing it. My problem is with those who teach that wearing jewelry is a sin for everyone, based on Bible passages that they have taken out of context.

 

[Dania]

wow i see your reference sophia...
u dont grasp the point i try to make. there statement about embellishment hasnt been parallel with my thoughts. i would buy a shirt. i wouldnt go out of my way to buy a regular simple shirt. nor would i go out of my way to buy a well embellished shirt. i would simple buy a nice fitting shirt that covers me properly. i would feel its unnecessary to do the former and a waste of emphasis to do the latter.. zimme?

it sjust how i see things now .. and as i listen u yal and later read scriptures i frame my own stand point. i'm merely weeks old in the faith NB! so i am still in a test run with these rules and whatnot..

i still however see jewels and fandangles and all those things as wrong emphasis.. except where done moderately. and as i said befre.. once u aint controlled by jewelry u cool i guess. for i was a person if my make up and my rings and nail polish dint match i wouldnt step out the house.zeen. i do see both point of veiws tho. i am not taking sides as yet til i read for myself. but! i am just telling yal bout how i feel (Doc asked)

 

[Dania]

now what about music and other entertainment.. are there any restrictions to the quality of the stuff that you watch...
i kinda learned a lesson the other day .. i have had a major problem with lust in the past and i was definately staying far away from it (i read this book by joshua Harris "Not even a Hint - How to guard your heart from lust") but i recently went on youtube and was watching a dancehall queen dance contest.. and boy .. it brought me right unde. i had a horrible dream and when i woke up i couldnt pull myself out of it..
but what are yal coments on entertainment and christianity??? what about music. etc any of u have or had any struggles with lust etc? how do u deal with it?

 

[djconklin]

If we look at this so called direct biblical prohibition we see that is nothing more than Batchelor's old manipulation tricks. You always must remember that Batchelor is an Evangelist not a Biblical scholar. this is apparently what Doc thinks is the prohibition.
From Batchelor's book:

Quote:
I believe angels turn away their faces and weep when professed Christians pierce, scar, chain, mutilate, and tattoo their bodies as a sacrifice to the gods of fad and fashion. God plainly says of His people: "They shall not make ... any cuttings in their flesh. They shall be holy unto their God." Leviticus 21:5, 6. And if God says we should not cut our bodies, what makes us think that piercing the ears is somehow permissible?
The verse of course is not even talking about such things as piercing for jewelery, the verses say:

Quote:
(Lev 21:5 NIV) "'Priests must not shave their heads or shave off the edges of their beards or cut their bodies.

While you are correct that Doug Batchelor is and evangelist and not a Biblical scholar you should also have stated that you are in neither category, you are a propagandist as illustrated with your choice of terms to describe how he handled the text.

While the verse in question isn't directly talking about piercing the ears for jewelry Doug Batchelor was entitled (homeletically) to draw the inference from it.

Because even if he is close to the Adventist position his material is so poorly researched that it is an embarrassment to the denomination.

I'd like to see the proof for that claim. It will probably bear as much weight as the plagiarism claim.

 

[djconklin]

Dania, I think the title of the book you are reading said it succiently: "Not even a hint." As the Bible says "By beholding we become changed." So, if we are constantly keeping our eyes and attention on Jesus we won't need to worry ab't which form of "entertainment" causes us a problem.

 

[thecountrydoc]

Hi once again Dania,

Currently I'm working on a reply to almost the same question posed in the Main SDA Forum. When I get that finished, I'll also post it here.

Respectfully, your friend and brother in Christ,
Doc

 

[Dania]

Thanks Alot Doc :d