Setting the Record Straight

[Kylie]

You do? let's see it.

A 4.4 billion year old zircon crystal that scientists confirm was a piece of the Earth's crust? is that what you have?

Or do you have something older you'd like to show us?

Something testable will always beat a book of stories.

 

[Kylie]

Why?

Why do you have to travel anywhere?

One can seek HIM for themselves today and now

they don't have to go anywhere
That's why there are witnesses today

Because the same thing that made those who had seen the RISEN LORD open their mouths to testify yesterday is the same thing that makes those who have seen The RISEN LORD open their mouths to testify today

Oh, so now you change your argument! You claim that your position is testable, and cite a story in the Bible as a way to test it. I point out that I can't test an old story, and you tell me that I don't need to test the old story.

So I guess you were just mistaken when you said your position was testable? What was the point of telling me about that story in the Bible?

BTW, my husband is a Christian, and he asked me to open my heart to God. And I did. I asked God to give me some sign that he was real. And you know what I got? Absolutely nothing. or do you think I should have picked some little thing and convinced myself that it was the sign from God I had asked for?

(Once, when a friend of my husband's died, he claimed that the occasional flicker of the light in the kitchen was a sign that his friend was saying hello. The friend liked to cook, y'see, and my husband said that it was the kitchen light was a sign. Of course, his friend departed for the afterlife, the great beyond, or whatever you want to call it, about the same time as I changed the bulb...)

 

[Kylie]

Then why do people point to a zircon crystal? why don't they point out this and this and this and that and ... ?

Care to show me where scientists have only ever pointed to Zircon crystals as a marker of the age of the Earth?

 

[miknik5]

Oh, so now you change your argument! You claim that your position is testable, and cite a story in the Bible as a way to test it. I point out that I can't test an old story, and you tell me that I don't need to test the old story.

So I guess you were just mistaken when you said your position was testable? What was the point of telling me about that story in the Bible?

BTW, my husband is a Christian, and he asked me to open my heart to God. And I did. I asked God to give me some sign that he was real. And you know what I got? Absolutely nothing. or do you think I should have picked some little thing and convinced myself that it was the sign from God I had asked for?

(Once, when a friend of my husband's died, he claimed that the occasional flicker of the light in the kitchen was a sign that his friend was saying hello. The friend liked to cook, y'see, and my husband said that it was the kitchen light was a sign. Of course, his friend departed for the afterlife, the great beyond, or whatever you want to call it, about the same time as I changed the bulb...)

What are you saying?

I didn't ask you to test anything

I told you to go

Nobody needs to discuss with you or examine the outcome of your seeking to know HIM for yourself

Either you will go
Or you won't

That is the evidence alone

Do...what YOU choose to do
You have been given TESTIMONIES to THE TRUTH

Now go and be a Berean

Or don't

 

[bhsmte]

Something testable will always beat a book of stories.

It depends how appealing the stories are.

 

[Kylie]

What are you saying?

I didn't ask you to test anything

No, I said that science was able to say, "Don't take my word for it, go and see for yourself." Post 521.

You claimed that Christianity could say the same thing, and used the example of the women at the well. Post 522.

I then pointed out that I can't test that, so your claim the Christianity is testable is, in this case, false. Post 523.

You then made the claim that reading the Bible IS actually testing the claims that were made all those thousands of years ago. Post 524.

I said that the only way I could test those claims is if I had a time machine. Post 534.

You said that I don't need to go anywhere in order to test the claim of the women at the well, as you suggested. I just have to seek God (completely changing your original argument). Post 538.

Does this make it clear?

I told you to go

Go where? Because in post 538, you said I didn't need to travel anywhere. Or are you demanding that I leave the thread?

Nobody needs to discuss with you or examine the outcome of your seeking to know HIM for yourself

But you are the one telling me that I need to seek him. So, lemme get this straight - I just need to keep going until I agree with your position. Wow.

Either you will go
Or you won't

Go where?

That is the evidence alone

Belief does not count as evidence.

Do...what YOU choose to do
You have been given TESTIMONIES to THE TRUTH

Testimonies are only evidence that people believe certain things. They are not evidence that those things are accurate.

Of course, people of all religions say, "I really believe it, so it must be true."

Now go and be a Berean

Or don't

If you want me to believe, then you'll need to give me more than old stories and people who are convinced that those stories are true. I mean, every religion has those things, so why should I go with yours?

 

[Kylie]

It depends how appealing the stories are.

And if people are taught them as fact when they are kids.

 

[miknik5]

No, I said that science was able to say, "Don't take my word for it, go and see for yourself." Post 521.

You claimed that Christianity could say the same thing, and used the example of the women at the well. Post 522.

I then pointed out that I can't test that, so your claim the Christianity is testable is, in this case, false. Post 523.

You then made the claim that reading the Bible IS actually testing the claims that were made all those thousands of years ago. Post 524.

I said that the only way I could test those claims is if I had a time machine. Post 534.

You said that I don't need to go anywhere in order to test the claim of the women at the well, as you suggested. I just have to seek God (completely changing your original argument). Post 538.

Does this make it clear?



Go where? Because in post 538, you said I didn't need to travel anywhere. Or are you demanding that I leave the thread?



But you are the one telling me that I need to seek him. So, lemme get this straight - I just need to keep going until I agree with your position. Wow.



Go where?



Belief does not count as evidence.



Testimonies are only evidence that people believe certain things. They are not evidence that those things are accurate.

Of course, people of all religions say, "I really believe it, so it must be true."



If you want me to believe, then you'll need to give me more than old stories and people who are convinced that those stories are true. I mean, every religion has those things, so why should I go with yours?

Go do what you will do

Or don't

Why do you keep questioning the witnesses?

Do you think their testimony will change?

It won't

You either will receive it as TRUTH
Or you won't

But regardless of what you choose to do, the TRUTH will remain THE TRUTH

 

[bhsmte]

Go do what you will do

Or don't

Why do you keep questioning the witnesses?

Do you think their testimony will change?

It won't

You either will receive it as TRUTH
Or you won't

But regardless of what you choose to do, the TRUTH will remain THE TRUTH

What truth? Please demonstrate.

 

[Kylie]

Go do what you will do

Or don't

Why do you keep questioning the witnesses?

I'm sorry, how very foolish of me to expect a discussion from someone posting in a discussion forum. Perhaps you are just like those people who come in, shout out their position proclaim it is the truth and then refuse to do anything else.

You're not here for a discussion, are you? You just want to preach your point of view. That's what it seems like when you avoid discussion.

Do you think their testimony will change?

My husband's point of view about creation, Noah's flood, evolution and many other things have changed because of the discussions he's had with me. Are you suggesting that a True Christian™ will never change their point of view? Do you think Christians are closed minded?

It won't

But it has.

You either will receive it as TRUTH
Or you won't

It's arrogant to think that your point of view MUST be the truth. A truly honest person would look at differing points of view and judge them based on their own merits.

But regardless of what you choose to do, the TRUTH will remain THE TRUTH

And science has CONSISTENTLY proven to be the best method for finding it. Because it produces reliable results.

 

[miknik5]

I'm sorry, how very foolish of me to expect a discussion from someone posting in a discussion forum. Perhaps you are just like those people who come in, shout out their position proclaim it is the truth and then refuse to do anything else.

You're not here for a discussion, are you? You just want to preach your point of view. That's what it seems like when you avoid discussion.



My husband's point of view about creation, Noah's flood, evolution and many other things have changed because of the discussions he's had with me. Are you suggesting that a True Christian
™ will never change their point of view? Do you think Christians are closed minded?



But it has.



It's arrogant to think that your point of view MUST be the truth. A truly honest person would look at differing points of view and judge them based on their own merits.



And science has CONSISTENTLY proven to be the best method for finding it. Because it produces reliable results.

I'm sorry
It's impossible

 

[Kylie]

I'm sorry
It's impossible

Yes, it is impossible to go and see for ourselves that Christianity is correct. All we can do is take the word of others.

 

[miknik5]

Yes, it is impossible to go and see for ourselves that Christianity is correct. All we can do is take the word of others.

No

It's impossible for you to do anything that will ever cause me to renounce my faith or change my viewpoint

 

[bhsmte]

No

It's impossible for you to do anything that will ever cause me to renounce my faith or change my viewpoint

No one is asking you to renounce anything.

 

[Kylie]

No

It's impossible for you to do anything that will ever cause me to renounce my faith or change my viewpoint

Oh, I'm very much aware of that.

I've always found it just about impossible to reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.

 

[AV1611VET]

My husband's point of view about creation, Noah's flood, evolution and many other things have changed because of the discussions he's had with me.

So he believes in them now?

 

[VirOptimus]

So he believes in them now?

You dont "belive" in science, you accept it.

Belief is for religion, not physical reality (ie science).

 

[Kylie]

So he believes in them now?

He no longer thinks that God created all the animals and plants in their current forms, he no longer thinks that there was a literal worldwide flood while a guy built a boat to carry samples of all the life to keep it going, and he thinks evolution is the best idea we have for the life we see today.

 

[miknik5]

Oh, I'm very much aware of that.

I've always found it just about impossible to reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.

Except for your husband?
Who came to a new point of view?

 

[miknik5]

He no longer thinks that God created all the animals and plants in their current forms, he no longer thinks that there was a literal worldwide flood while a guy built a boat to carry samples of all the life to keep it going, and he thinks evolution is the best idea we have for the life we see today.

And you're proud?

You shouldn't be

Undoing GOD's work is not something to be proud of