Setting it Straight

moicherie · Nov 1, 2007

freeindeed2 said:
That may be for some. No doubt. However, this white boy had no parent playing golf with the Dean, had no program helping him get into college, had no parents paying his way, and still owes $40,000 on his student loans 15 years after taking them out (not counting the thousands of dollars I would pay from working hard all summer and from working hard during the school year). I was not one of those white kids that came from 'privilege'. The grass may seem greener on the other side of the fence, but broke is broke no matter which yard you're in.

And working for the church for over a decade didn't exactly provide the means to pay them down either!

I can understand that free, but there are too many white people who like to use the affirmative action story of the alleged black student who they have probably never met that had lower scores on his SAT but got into school. Bear in mind white people benefited from affirmative action for 400 years but people tend to forget that don't they, but moan about a 40 year government programme. So when I hear Adventist Christians spouting such racist tosh (which is a sin btw sinless perfectionists.) I can either get mad or take to Jesus after He knows what it means to be a human
born with a natural tan.

freeindeed2 · Nov 1, 2007

mva1985 said:
Free,

that is the second time today you have made me laugh.

Good! I had to laugh at your other response in the other thread too. So thanks back to you for returning the favor.

I grew up poor also, worked my way through the academy.

Yeah, I always had to work to go to our schools. I had friends that worked, but they got to keep their paychecks (or they would be applied to their bill and then their parents would pay them).

student loans are a curse that is for sure - I can only thank God that I did not take any out. of course I did not get my degree until I was thirty but oh well!

I'm really wishing that I hadn't taken out the loans. But there were no other options for going to college for me, at least for going to SDA colleges and universities. I guess I could have gone to a local community college, but I would have been scorned for not going to an Adventist school. I don't see any of those 'scorners' offering to pay my loans now though.

mva1985 · Nov 1, 2007

freeindeed2 said:
Good! I had to laugh at your other response in the other thread too. So thanks back to you for returning the favor.

Yeah, I always had to work to go to our schools. I had friends that worked, but they got to keep their paychecks (or they would be applied to their bill and then their parents would pay them).

I'm really wishing that I hadn't taken out the loans. But there were no other options for going to college for me, at least for going to SDA colleges and universities. I guess I could have gone to a local community college, but I would have been scorned for not going to an Adventist school. I don't see any of those 'scorners' offering to pay my loans now though.

I'm glad someone is laughing.

Going to our schools is expensive, and I am glad you graduated from an Adventist college.

I did go to a local university here in Ohio so it was considerably cheaper.

OntheDL · Nov 1, 2007

moicherie said:
Of course official figures back up your fictional claim of more racism from blacks to the majority? The average rapper, Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson does not represent all black people living in America you are going to have to do better then that.

Ok, then who represents the black people? Is Colin Powell the black kids role model? or the NBA stars and the rappers?

Is the cry of injustice going to get a black kid off the ghetto or hard word and planning?

You convienently forget the talk shows that have been addressing this problem did you watch them?

I don't watch much TV, much less the talk shows. I have to plea ignorance on that.

As for affirmative action for every black student who you say scores lower on their SAT tests how many white students get in because they parents came over on the Mayflower or plays golf with the Dean of the university?

You know what? The financial and political elites are not just the enemy of the blacks. They are the enemy of mankind. They are the etablishment that's pushing the satanic purpose for the endtime. But why does an average person has to be bombarded with the cry of racism?

One cannot negate the after effects of slavery on black society in White america, lots of black people make it due to the grace of God enabling them, leave it to White America Jim Crow would still be running things.

You are lumbing everyone into one catagory. I'm not even white. But I will help a black person on the street and I have. And I'm sure most average American will do just that regardless of color. It's not about white against black. It's about right against wrong. Not even one person today was alive during the slavery days.

Leave it to the Adventist church they would still be practising segregation in the conference canteen with a vengenance.

Did you think a white person could evangelize the black community or vise verse during that time?

Why does the blacks still have their segregated conference today? Because they want to keep it that way.

mva1985 · Nov 1, 2007

I've said it before that we should do away with the whole segregated conferences.

It is a waste of money and talent.

Even longhair was a little shocked (i think) when he learned we had segregated churches. There was some talk of this in a thread a while back.

OntheDL · Nov 1, 2007

moicherie said:
'the blacks' - there is none so blind as a Christian who cannot see his own racism in his use of words.....
Tear up the mental white sheets brethern it will keep you out of heaven.

Maybe you should come to the metro New York area. The 'N' word is actually how the young blacks greet and address each other.

mva1985 · Nov 1, 2007

OntheDL said:
Maybe you should come to the metro New York area. The 'N' word is actually how the young blacks greet and address each other.

DL,

There is a difference between the word that ends with an "er" and the one that ends with a "ga". The latter is used in a form of greeting, and can be confused with the former. Just in case you weren't aware of that.

moicherie · Nov 1, 2007

OntheDL said:
Ok, then who represents the black people? Is Colin Powell the black kids role model? or the NBA stars and the rappers?

Have African Americans in america held elections for the position of speaker of the community? No.

[/quote]
Is the cry of injustice going to get a black kid off the ghetto or hard word and planning?
[/quote]

Both

[/quote]
I don't watch much TV, much less the talk shows. I have to plea ignorance on that.

You know what? The financial and political elites are not just the enemy of the blacks. They are the enemy of mankind. They are the etablishment that's pushing the satanic purpose for the endtime. But why does an average person has to be bombarded with the cry of racism?[/quote]

Maybe because it seems the average white person on here likes to pretend it does not exist in 2007 as some of you have proved when the topic is raised?

[/quote]
You are lumbing everyone into one catagory. I'm not even white. But I will help a black person on the street and I have. And I'm sure most average American will do just that regardless of color. It's not about white against black. It's about right against wrong. Not even one person today was alive during the slavery days.[/quote]

No they were not but the effects of the legacy continue no matter how one wants to ignore it.
If you want to know where you are today and where you are going you need to make peace with the past.

[/quote]
Did you think a white person could evangelize the black community or vise verse during that time?

Why does the blacks still have their segregated conference today? Because they want to keep it that way.[/quote]

Regional conferences were introduced in the 1940's at the suggestion of the White Adventists don't tell me they were having problems evangelizing the black community, who do you think started the 'colored' work in the 1800's? A white Adventist who was EG White's son - Edson. As for today now the foundation of segregation has been set on both sides we need the Holy Spirit to give it up. Are you telling me the reason for the regional conferences no longer exists? White Adventists have overcome their own subconcious racism or are ready to deal with it? If so praise God tho I suspect the opposite is true.

freeindeed2 · Nov 1, 2007

moicherie said:
I can understand that free, but there are too many white people who like to use the affirmative action story of the alleged black student who they have probably never met that had lower scores on his SAT but got into school. Bear in mind white people benefited from affirmative action for 400 years but people tend to forget that don't they, but moan about a 40 year government programme. So when I hear Adventist Christians spouting such racist tosh (which is a sin btw sinless perfectionists.) I can either get mad or take to Jesus after He knows what it means to be a human
born with a natural tan.

You mean Jesus wasn't a white guy!!!???

LOL!

I hear you. At Andrews I was an RA and there were about 80 guys on my hall and it was very diverse. On one end of the hall there were white American guys and Canadians. Then there was a good mix of Asians and Hispanics and whites. Then me (white) and my co-RA, who was a very dark African who came to Adrews from Africa (don't remember where - it's been over 15 years).

The other side of the hall had African Americans (as some liked to be called, others preferred just to be called 'black') and then Puerto Rican's and some VI's (Virgin Islands), who were very dark. And you didn't DARE call a VI an African American, or they would be in your face (I never made the mistake! But I saw others who did.) So, needless to say, my co-RA could hardly even go down to that end of the hall. They didn't like him, they didn't respect him, and certainly didn't listen to him. The average 'white guy' wouldn't understand why they didn't get along because he would just think they were all 'African American/black', so why should there be any issues...

Anyway, enough rambling. LOL. I loved all those guys and appreciated our different cultures and perspectives. It was fascinating and fun to learn and to hear their stories. It's the Holy Spirit that unifies all believers. God created diversity in us all, but he also ties us all together as believers under his Son, Jesus Christ (who was not white!) and calls us his church, his bride, his children. Racism probably won't die until Jesus comes, but we have a much higher calling that doesn't allow for racism within God's church (all believers). We are ONE in Christ Jesus!

moicherie · Nov 1, 2007

freeindeed2 said:
You mean Jesus wasn't a white guy!!!??? LOL!

I hear you. At Andrews I was an RA and there were about 80 guys on my hall and it was very diverse. On one end of the hall there were white American guys and Canadians. Then there was a good mix of Asians and Hispanics and whites. Then me (white) and my co-RA, who was a very dark African who came to Adrews from Africa (don't remember where - it's been over 15 years).

The other side of the hall had African Americans (as some liked to be called, others preferred just to be called 'black') and then Puerto Rican's and some VI's (Virgin Islands), who were very dark. And you didn't DARE call a VI an African American, or they would be in your face (I never made the mistake! But I saw others who did.) So, needless to say, my co-RA could hardly even go down to that end of the hall. They didn't like him, they didn't respect him, and certainly didn't listen to him. The average 'white guy' wouldn't understand why they didn't get along because he would just think they were all 'African American/black', so why should there be any issues...

Anyway, enough rambling. LOL. I loved all those guys and appreciated our different cultures and perspectives. It was fascinating and fun to learn and to hear their stories. It's the Holy Spirit that unifies all believers. God created diversity in us all, but he also ties us all together as believers under his Son, Jesus Christ (who was not white!) and calls us his church, his bride, his children. Racism probably won't die until Jesus comes, but we have a much higher calling that doesn't allow for racism within God's church (all believers). We are ONE in Christ Jesus!

Amen free!

OntheDL · Nov 1, 2007

moicherie said:
I can understand that free, but there are too many white people who like to use the affirmative action story of the alleged black student who they have probably never met that had lower scores on his SAT but got into school.

I think my mother taught some in the NYC public schools.

Bear in mind white people benefited from affirmative action for 400 years but people tend to forget that don't they, but moan about a 40 year government programme.

So blame the past for the current failure. Want to hear my rant?

So when I hear Adventist Christians spouting such racist tosh (which is a sin btw sinless perfectionists.) I can either get mad or take to Jesus after He knows what it means to be a human born with a natural tan.

Hmm...I'm not the one who has problems with colors.

OntheDL · Nov 1, 2007

mva1985 said:
DL,

There is a difference between the word that ends with an "er" and the one that ends with a "ga". The latter is used in a form of greeting, and can be confused with the former. Just in case you weren't aware of that.

Both are used to address. Try to address a black person with a 'ga' if you are white.

moicherie · Nov 1, 2007

OntheDL said:
I think my mother taught some in the NYC public schools.

So blame the past for the current failure. Want to hear my rant?

Hmm...I'm not the one who has problems with colors.

1. So what if she did, it does not negate the fact one or hundreds of black children getting to school on lower SAT scores does not mean all black children did.... so bringing that up was supposes to prove what?
2.Feel free to rant away.
3.I don't expect you to have problems with colour, one your human we all have coloured skin tones and two you are supposed to be a Christian.

OntheDL · Nov 1, 2007

moicherie said:
Regional conferences were introduced in the 1940's at the suggestion of the White Adventists don't tell me they were having problems evangelizing the black community, who do you think started the 'colored' work in the 1800's? A white Adventist who was EG White's son - Edson. As for today now the foundation of segregation has been set on both sides we need the Holy Spirit to give it up. Are you telling me the reason for the regional conferences no longer exists? White Adventists have overcome their own subconcious racism or are ready to deal with it? If so praise God tho I suspect the opposite is true.

Regional conference, union, division are organizational not racial.

And you are telling a white Adventist did start the work of evangelism for the blacks. So not everyone is racist?

I don't doubt there is still subconscious racism in the majorities. But their part is much less tolerated than the racism coming from the minorities.

OntheDL · Nov 1, 2007

moicherie said:
1. So what if she did, it does not negate the fact one or hundreds of black children getting to school on lower SAT scores does not mean all black children did.... so bringing that up was supposes to prove what?

You missed the point that the affirmative action was racism. But no blacks ojected to it because of convenience.

2.Feel free to rant away.

Misery is self-imposed. By blaming on the past, you will always live in the past. I'm more concerned with the future.

3.I don't expect you to have problems with colour, one your human we all have coloured skin tones and two you are supposed to be a Christian.

I'm not white. And I have white and black friends. Your premise is false. By not agreeing with that premise does not make anyone a racist.

Jimlarmore · Nov 1, 2007

moicherie said:
There are rock groups who claim connections with Aryan parties etc, they get less publicity but they do exist. And the lyrics of rappers does not negate the situation regarding how black people were and are generally percieved by white America, your response and mva's prove my point. (You think sinless perfection means ignoring racial injustices on your doorstep do you and spouting such tosh about rappers? Please give me a break!) Do you think the New Orleans situation would have been handled differently if the majority population where white people? Are you telling me white flight no longer exists in society and in the church?
Its all well and good talking about immigration but when you open Pandora's box don't expect it to be empty.

Look my friend, I am native American so don't come on to me like I have no sense of what you are talking about. Prejudice exists in all kinds of forms in our land. Skinny folks are prejudiced against fat folks, fat folks against skinny folks. Rich against the poor, white against blacks, blacks against whites you name it. Prejudice is about a mind set that tends to elevate one above another for any number of reasons. Since you are black you have a perceived perspective that it is a greater issue about being black in America. Well, let me give you a news flash friend. Today, the black american has just as many opportunities to succeed as any white person and possibly more. Today, if you want to go out and put in the effort you can do most anything you set your mind to do here.

So this "Jim Crow" nonsense doesn't fly with me. I own my own oil & gas company here in N.E. Oklahoma. Recently we hired a black man because he was a good worker, we knew it and he has proven us right. He will continue to be employed with us as long as he produces well and gets along with others. I am alive today because of black people. When I was in Viet Nam color didn't matter much at all. All people bleed red blood and die just like everyone else. I may be worth a million dollars but I put my pants on the same way as a billionare. God doesn't see the outside of a person He looks on the inside. Get over it and grow up.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

JonMiller · Nov 1, 2007

My observation is that Native Americans are currently more effected by the past actions of america than the African Americans. The communities at the reservations/etc are very bad off, and very few get out.

The issue isn't an issue of opportunity. The issue is one of culture and identity.

JM

mva1985 · Nov 1, 2007

OntheDL said:
Both are used to address. Try to address a black person with a 'ga' if you are white.

DL,

I had an interesting experience at work regarding that. It was during a break and a group of black people who happened to be friends were in a group and I started to walk over to them and when I got there one of the women turned to me and said, "what's up my 'ga'?" (obviously I'm not using the whole word to avoid offending anyone), but I actually was fine with it - and no one else said anything about it - it made me feel like I was welcome and accepted into that group.

But that was just my experience.

sentipente · Nov 1, 2007

mjona3 said:
My observation is that Native Americans are currently more effected by the past actions of america than the African Americans. The communities at the reservations/etc are very bad off, and very few get out.

Are we just going to add words because we are able?

JonMiller · Nov 1, 2007

I like words.

No, I was giving a perspective of mine. I wasn't agreeing with Jim's perspective.

JM

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