This is a terrific thread.
I suspect all the atheists come here because atheism is not quite what it is made out to be. If atheism was a lack of faith in God I suspect they would treat this board like I treat Buddhist temples. I ignore them as curiosities and nothing more. The atheists here come to argue. Some of them better than others but they do come to argue and they tend to argue consistently against Christian values as the Bible defines them. Is an atheist really someone who doesn't believe in God, or is it someone who has chosen to be against God?
*sigh*
I don't give much thought to Buddhist temples either, because Buddhist beliefs aren't predominant in my country and don't control the political orientations of the people who make the laws that
I have to live by. People who, I feel strongly, are making very important decisions that affect millions of people based on faulty logic. We do not reject all christian ideals out of hand. The golden rule is golden for a reason, and people shouldn't kill or steal, and we should endeavor to forgive those who trespass against us.
Aristotle's books were used as a basis for knowledge for hundreds of years. To question their veracity was unheard of. And yet, our civilization didn't start to really advance until we abandoned Aristotle. He was a stepping stone, a necessary but ultimately incorrect stage of knowledge that we had to move past. We wouldn't be where we are today without him, but we wouldn't be here with him either.
That's how I see the bible and most other mythologies. They were fables that tried to use story to teach people how to live in peace and order. They provide a baseline morality, but they are also thousands of years old, these stories. We're growing beyond them--many of the things that the Bible supports we now find completely unacceptable, like rape-marriages, genocide, slavery, the subjugation of women, to name but a few... It was a good starting point, but it isn't the final word. What happens to a group of people who never change for hundreds of years? They stagnate culturally, forgetting why the rules they follow were even written. Look at the Muslims of the Middle East, many of them living as their great great great grandparents did. Their book is younger than the New Testament, but instead of building on it and changing, they clung to their stepping stone. They once had great centers of knowledge, they invented algebra for goodness sakes, but because of a religious movement that claimed that the only book a good person could ever need is the Koran, they lost all of that progress. How many of us would like to live the way they do now? Those who defend the Bible so fervently, would they truly want to live under every law in it? If you were sent back in time, the people you admire so would probably stone you to death for heresy.
Atheists, agnostics, and christmas-and-easter christians are not 'against' god, they have just realized that in our world this ancient deity is of fading relevance.
THAT is a wonderful question! For the few people I know in my life that claim to be atheists, I believe it is the latter.
Why believe that? Why not ask them directly? In a courteous manner, you might learn they aren't as bad as you think. Just tell them you want to understand them better and you're not going to judge them, and I think you'll be surprised.
And for whomever said it, being a nice and moral person alone won't save you from the depths of hell. I'm glad that there are nice and moral people out there though.
But sometimes I wonder, Christians witness to nonbelievers all the time and they use the Bible to back up the claims, but if a person doesn't believe in God, doesn't believe that the Bible is the word of God, and thinks it's all a lie, what good does quoting Bible verses do? I've always been afraid to ask my pastor this question.
It does about as much good as quoting 'The Night Before Christmas' to convince someone to hang stockings on the fireplace because Santa knows that they've been nice. Most rational adults would ignore you completely. Most atheists do the same.
By the way, I am young, have made several mistakes in my life and am a sinner like all others. I am saved by the Blood of the Lamb and I have faith. That is the only difference. I deserve hell like everyone else. Not trying to sound upity and all righteous on anyone. Really. Have a great day everyone and God bless.
It's fine if you want to believe that. It's hard for someone like me to understand though. What could you possibly do in your short life to justify an eternity of torture?
This is one of the things that really bugs me about Christianity, more than any other religion. Christians often want to convince me that there is something inherently flawed about me, something sick, so horrible that I should be tortured forever because of it. And only doing what they say can save me from my own horribleness.
As my grandfather, (a retired salesman) used to say, "The best way to sell someone something is to convince them they need it. "
Well, I'm not buying. I'm not perfect but I'm not a monster, and I don't need to be fixed or saved or forgiven. I'm fine. Is it that much of a sin of pride, to believe that there's nothing horribly wrong with me?
