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Featured Serious Faith Question

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by MyLordYeshuaTheMessiah, Nov 5, 2018.

  1. MyLordYeshuaTheMessiah

    MyLordYeshuaTheMessiah Member

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    If a person has true faith, but has not been baptized.
    Are they born again?

    If your answer is yes, then explain where the "born of water" part fits into the persons faith.
     
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  2. redleghunter

    redleghunter Abide Boldy my friend Supporter

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    I think this matter is simple. Believers in the NT were baptized. Notice I said believers were baptized.

    Abraham believed and God reckoned (imputed) it as righteousness. Abraham was later circumcised to seal the covenant of faith with God. Abraham later in testing of his faith willingly offered his only son.

    Let’s look at the faith of Abraham and how God dealt with him in the covenant of faith. Paul spends a lot of “ink” on this from Romans 3-5.
     
  3. disciple Clint

    disciple Clint Active Member

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    My thinking would be that baptism is desirable but not mandatory for salvation. I know that some would not agree with this but the key to salvation is acceptance of Jesus as you savior. If you accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior but lose your life prior to baptism would you assert that you are unsaved?
     
  4. PloverWing

    PloverWing Episcopalian

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    God is present in the sacraments, but God is not limited to the sacraments.
     
  5. TuxAme

    TuxAme Quis ut Deus?

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    Jesus connected being born again to baptism, "unless you're born of water and spirit". Jesus also connected "true faith" to doing His will, which would include being baptized.
     
  6. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ Supporter

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    John 3
    6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

    Jesus explained the spiritual birth. He didn't explain the water birth; it might refer to being born of the flesh. After all he mentioned only two births in verse six.
     
  7. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ Supporter

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    My baby brother, the youngest of six, was baptized as an infant in a Catholic church.. He wasn't old enough to obey and as an adult he's still a non-believer.
     
  8. MyLordYeshuaTheMessiah

    MyLordYeshuaTheMessiah Member

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    Born of water and the Spirit can be inclusive.
    Meaning you don't get born of water, and then again born of the Spirit.
    The Holy Spirit descended on Jesus, when he got Baptized.
     
  9. thesunisout

    thesunisout growing in grace Supporter

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    The thief on the cross wasn't baptized but he went to be with the Lord. It doesn't mean that baptism isn't necessary. Instead of trying to figure it out, I just say that everyone that can be baptized should be.
     
  10. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ Supporter

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    But when babies are baptized, they don't become Christians as a result of the baptism. Furthermore, Jesus only mentioned natural and spiritual. Why is that?
     
  11. MyLordYeshuaTheMessiah

    MyLordYeshuaTheMessiah Member

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    I've been trying for months to get baptized.
    I contacted so many churches and they ignore me. (not in person) but emails, messages, etc. I don't have a car, so it's not easy to travel far to a church. The closest one is a 1-2 hour walk. But I don't want to become a member of that church, because I want to stick with my wife's church. I don't tell the church that. All I say is, I'm a new believer in Jesus looking to be baptized. And they ignore.
    The closest I've got was a pastor replied, asking when I'm available. I replied and he's ignored since. About a month now.
    The only person willing to baptize me, will only do sprinkling. My wife's church.
     
  12. HTacianas

    HTacianas Well-Known Member

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    The thief lived and died under the old covenant.
     
  13. HTacianas

    HTacianas Well-Known Member

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    If I can ask, what church does your church belong to?
     
  14. MyLordYeshuaTheMessiah

    MyLordYeshuaTheMessiah Member

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    I don't believe in infant baptism.
    Baptism should be done when the person comes to faith.
    Otherwise they're just babies taking a bath.

    Like I said, he only mentioned natural birth to make a point to Nicodemus, who didn't know what born again meant. As he said, "can one go back into the womb".
    Second, he only refers to spiritual, because water and of the Spirit, are inclusive. Again, you can't be born of water, and then be born of Spirit. There's not two born again's, but one.
     
  15. MyLordYeshuaTheMessiah

    MyLordYeshuaTheMessiah Member

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    Not sure what that means. But I assume you're asking denomination, which my wife's is united reformed.
    I grew up in Pentecostal. But I don't go to one.
    I don't have a specific denomination I pertain to.
     
  16. thesunisout

    thesunisout growing in grace Supporter

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    That has to be extremely frustrating. I wasn't able to get baptized until around 8 months into my walk with Christ. I would recommend that you start attending a bible study or Christian fellowship somewhere where they are teaching the word of God and make it known to the people there you desire to be baptized. I'm sure that some brother or sister will be able to help you.
     
  17. thesunisout

    thesunisout growing in grace Supporter

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    On the contrary, he was saved by his faith in Jesus Christ.
     
  18. HTacianas

    HTacianas Well-Known Member

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    Wow. What church does your church belong to. That sounded stupid. :)
     
  19. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ Supporter

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    The Holy Spirit teaches only truth. He hasn't told me that baptism is part of regeneration.
     
  20. Jason0047

    Jason0047 Give in secret & you will be rewarded openly. Supporter

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    Well, after we are saved by God's grace (Jesus Christ) by faith, I believe works of faith are necessary to show a person's faith is genuine and that the Lord lives within a person. For it is the Lord who works within us. No Jesus living in us and no salvation (1 John 5:12). Most teach a form of greasy grace these days. They think you can commit grievous sin and still be saved. Some will even say holiness is necessary but yet they believe one unconfessed grievous sin cannot separate a person from God. This is wrong. Then again, they are not fooling anyone. It's pretty easy to figure out that we have to be good as a part of being in God's Kingdom. But most do not want to be good.

    Then there are those who think we have to obey the Old Law to be saved like the Saturday Sabbath, etc. This is also a major problem, as well; And it is seeking to make laws as a requirement that are no longer binding anymore. This is bondage.

    As for water baptism:

    Well, I have been baptized and I do believe it is very important for every believer to do this because I feel it helps their spiritual walk with God. But is baptism for salvation? Peter says in 1 Peter 3:21 that baptism does not save in regards to the putting away of the filth of the flesh. The words "filth of the flesh" is in reference to "sin." For similar words "filthiness of the flesh" is clearly used in reference to sin in 2 Corinthians 7:1. So Peter is saying that baptism does not save us in putting away sin. So what about all the baptism and you are saved verses? Those verses are talking about being baptized by the Spirit (Which is a part of being born again and having a new heart).

    So what does being born of water mean?

    Ephesians 5:25-26 says,
    "...even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,..."

    Jesus said,
    "Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you."
    (John 15:3).

    "Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way? by taking heed thereto according to thy word." (Psalms 119:9).

    "Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." (1 Peter 1:23).

    "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." (Romans 10:17).

    In the Parable of the Sower, we learn that the seed is the Word of God (Luke 8:11) and the Sower is the Son of Man (Matthew 13:37). The seed is sown in our heart. This is the good news from the Holy Scriptures (or our receiving of the gospel and Christ).

    So in conclusion:

    Being born again by the Spirit is being regenerated by the Holy Spirit and being born again by the water is being born again by hearing the Holy Scriptures (that made you repent of your sins to the Lord Jesus Christ in the first place). A person needs to hear or read Scripture in some way in order to repent and accept Jesus. They cannot accept some other holy word or book. They are born again by God's Word. They had a spiritual experience when reading or listening to God's Word.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2018
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