Sending atheists to Hell is Evil

[ThinkForYourself]

According to you. Sin says otherwise.

According to my morality, infinite punishment for a finite crime is immoral.

That's why I think Secular Morality is superior to biblical morality.

God's law is a lot more serious.

I think calling it "serious" completely misses the mark. A far better term, in my book, would be "immoral"

For instance, God advocates slavery (not just indentured servitude), saying how much to pay, and how much you can beat your slaves (as much as you want so long as they don't die in a day or two).

Secular morality has led me to believe that slavery is immoral. That's why I think Secular Morality is superior. Do you agree, or do you think slavery is moral?

Aww, aren't you a saint?

Are you serious? Virtually everyone you know has done something worse than drunk driving? And these are Christians?

Well, one more example of why I think Secular Morality is superior.

 

[lesliedellow]

What sin could any human being possibly commit that would merit everlasting torture?

Atheists in hell won't stop telling God what he can do with himself. So they will be continually renewing their subscription to their current place of residence.

 

[ThinkForYourself]

You get more and more strange, TFY.

I don't see how being an ex-Christian makes me strange. There are plenty of us around.

What does TFY mean?

 

[Archaeopteryx]

All sins.

Sorry, but I'm a bit tired. You've been around here 7 years having these concepts explained to you (which begs the question as to why you keep asking the same things when you already know the answer), but in case you haven't yet then you're going to have to just do some reading. I can't type out every faucet of theology.

Are all sins equal to God? Is all sin the same?

Yes, I've received the same stock answers time and time again, so why do I still ask the question? I ask it because it exposes how unjust the doctrine of Hell really is, and how obscene it is to revere the deity responsible for Hell as just, merciful, loving and benevolent. The punishment for any crime is supposed to be proportionate to the crime committed. Factors such as remorse and the potential for reintegration into the community are often considered in the course of sentencing. Hell is an everlasting punishment foisted upon countless souls for finite crimes committed over a finite lifespan. It is pure vengeance dealt unto those who did not believe in the correct dogmas. No justice is to be found in this doctrine, nor in any theology that upholds it.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Atheists in hell won't stop telling God what he can do with himself. So they will be continually renewing their subscription to their current place of residence.

Rubbish. Atheists would no longer be atheists.

 

[Blessedj01]

According to my morality, infinite punishment for a finite crime is immoral.

Sin isn't a finite crime.

I think calling it "serious" completely misses the mark. A far better term, in my book, would be "immoral"

Sin results in death - if left unchecked it's aim is replacing our loving God with sinful selves.

That's far worse than "immoral"...I call that deadly.

...and guess what, death never stops. It doesn't just get up and start breathing. Death is a permanent, eternal state of being.

For instance, God advocates slavery (not just indentured servitude), saying how much to pay, and how much you can beat your slaves (as much as you want so long as they don't die in a day or two).

God doesn't advocate slavery.

Does the Bible condone slavery?

Secular morality has led me to believe that slavery is immoral. That's why I think Secular Morality is superior. Do you agree, or do you think slavery is moral?

I think you need to read the Bible again, from "cover to cover."

Are you serious? Virtually everyone you know has done something worse than drunk driving? And these are Christians?

Firstly, drunk driving is no small deal. In my country you can go to jail for it. It can kill people. Just like your concept of sin, your concept of "drunk driving" is that it's really not that harmful. Ask someone who's lost a loved one to a drunk driver and you'll get a very different perspective.

I know lots of people who've done something "worse" than drunk driving. Many of them are Christians. Why shouldn't they be? Christ is the refuge of sinners. I'm not going to tell you what because you'll compare yourselves to them through your "secular morality."

Well, one more example of why I think Secular Morality is superior.

Just another example of why I think it's inferior. Anyway, I'm going to move on soon, so if you have anything else to say you better say it quick.

 

[ThinkForYourself]

Originally Posted by Archaeopteryx

What sin could any human being possibly commit that would merit everlasting torture?
​

All sins.

Wow. Just wow. It boggles my mind that you think this is moral.

 

[Blessedj01]

I don't see how being an ex-Christian makes me strange. There are plenty of us around.

What does TFY mean?

I find it strange, but that's okay.

TFY = ThinkForYourself.

 

[Blessedj01]

Yes, I've received the same stock answers time and time again, so why do I still ask the question? I ask it because it exposes how unjust the doctrine of Hell really is, and how obscene it is to revere the deity responsible for Hell as just, merciful, loving and benevolent. The punishment for any crime is supposed to be proportionate to the crime committed. Factors such as remorse and the potential for reintegration into the community are often considered in the course of sentencing. Hell is an everlasting punishment foisted upon countless souls for finite crimes committed over a finite lifespan. It is pure vengeance dealt unto those who did not believe in the correct dogmas. No justice is to be found in this doctrine, nor in any theology that upholds it.

No, you ask it because you don't want an honest debate. Let's be real. You want to prejudice the debate with emotion.

It's about the thrill of trolling Christians for almost a decade and the psychological rush of feeling like you proved them wrong.

Hell is where God isn't. God is good. Anywhere God isn't, has gotta suck. You call it punishment - God calls it your wages.

If you've made your mind up about God, He won't force you to come back home with him. The alternative is Satan's place of residence.

Hope you've brought a blanket...

 

[Blessedj01]

Wow. Just wow. It boggles my mind that you think this is moral.

Did you read the link? Your mind wouldn't be so boggled then.

...then again, you've read the Bible "from cover to cover", so you know all about God's perspective on sin, right?

 

[PsychoSarah]

You aren't innocent and neither am I. If you don't believe the verse, or in God, or in sin, then you can't change the verse to mean what you want it to mean.

That isn't what he meant. Belief is not a fully conscious choice; there is always a range of what a person is capable of believing, and anything outside of that range cannot be believed by that individual even if they tried. Like neither you nor myself would ever be able to believe the sky is green, no matter how hard we tried or even if we never saw the sky again.

 

[Blessedj01]

That isn't what he meant. Belief is not a fully conscious choice; there is always a range of what a person is capable of believing, and anything outside of that range cannot be believed by that individual even if they tried. Like neither you nor myself would ever be able to believe the sky is green, no matter how hard we tried or even if we never saw the sky again.

I've lost the point. All I know is, disagreeing with or disbelieving in a concept does not allow you to redefine that concept.

 

[ThinkForYourself]

...
God doesn't advocate slavery.

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)


How could you not know this about the book that guides your morality? Now can you see why Secular morality is superior to yours?

Just another example of why I think it's inferior. Anyway, I'm going to move on soon, so if you have anything else to say you better say it quick.

Can't say I blame you. This discussion isn't going well for you or your brand of Christianity.

 

[ThinkForYourself]

Did you read the link? Your mind wouldn't be so boggled then.

...then again, you've read the Bible "from cover to cover", so you know all about God's perspective on sin, right?

You mean the words in the bible mean something completely different than what they actually say? That is your best argument, that God can't write an understandable paragraph?

 

[Blessedj01]

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)

God doesn't advocate slavery. Did you read the link? That's probably a no (again). If you keep on interpreting the Bible with a knee-jerk reaction, you'll never understand it.

How could you not know this about the book that guides your morality?

How could you not know about one of the oldest and most refuted arguments against the Bible that you've read "cover to cover?"

Now can you see why Secular morality is superior to yours?

Does "Secular morality" often take things out of context to 'win' debates?

Can't say I blame you. This discussion isn't going well for you or your brand of Christianity.

More rather it's getting boring. And you're becoming willfully cynical.

 

[PsychoSarah]

I've lost the point. All I know is, disagreeing with or disbelieving in a concept does not allow you to redefine that concept.

True, and I am not arguing against that. I think at some point you misunderstood another person's post. That or I missed something. Anyways, back on track with the topic at hand.

You have any idea how much it scares me that so many people are seemingly ok with the idea that the vast majority of people get sent to eternal torment on the basis of not believing in the "right" deity?

 

[Blessedj01]

True, and I am not arguing against that. I think at some point you misunderstood another person's post. That or I missed something. Anyways, back on track with the topic at hand.

You have any idea how much it scares me that so many people are seemingly ok with the idea that the vast majority of people get sent to eternal torment on the basis of not believing in the "right" deity?

I can understand it scaring you if you don't fully comprehend the theological position.

...but once you understand the gravity of sin, it scares you that we are capable of it - and it amazes you that God is so graceful in it's handling.

 

[PsychoSarah]

I can understand it scaring you if you don't fully comprehend the theological position.

...but once you understand the gravity of sin, it scares you that we are capable of it - and it amazes you that God is so graceful in it's handling.

No, it really doesn't seem to be handled well at all. If you were a judge, would you sentence anyone who disagreed with your rulings to death?

 

[Blessedj01]

No, it really doesn't seem to be handled well at all. If you were a judge, would you sentence anyone who disagreed with your rulings to death?

Questions about Sin

Read up, I'm going to sleep. I'll jump back on the theological merry-go-round later.

...and read the poem you wrote too. It makes more sense then perhaps you know. Almost self-prophesying.

 

[ThinkForYourself]

God doesn't advocate slavery. Did you read the link? That's probably a no (again). If you keep on interpreting the Bible with a knee-jerk reaction, you'll never understand it.

No, I didn't read the link.

Why in the world would I need someone to interpret the bible? Anyone with a high school education should be able to read it. Not bragging, but I have more than that.

How could you not know about one of the oldest and most refuted arguments against the Bible that you've read "cover to cover?"

Admittedly, I read the bible cover to cover a long time ago. About 45 years ago.

Again, you seem to be saying that the words in the bible don't actually mean what they say, that God is incapable of writing a comprehensible paragraph. That it needs to be "interpreted". Is this true?

Does "Secular morality" often take things out of context to 'win' debates?

Quoting the bible (and NOT quote mining....the verses before and after do not change the meaning whatsoever) is taking things out of context?

Your entire argument seems to be based around trying to convince me that the words in the bible don't mean what they say, but have a completely different meaning. That God is incapable of writing at a high school level.

That is silly.