Senator Orin Hatch Announces He Will Retire

TLK Valentine

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Comprehensive truth in labeling laws already exist for food products. If there are issues with existing laws then those laws need to be revised.

Which would be great if the people charged with revising those laws weren't deep in the pockets of those who flout them.

We don't need a greatly expanded FDA deciding the efficacy, suitability to purpose, and potential side effects for every food based supplement.

We don't need to enforce the laws that already exist?
 
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NightHawkeye

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We don't need to enforce the laws that already exist?
The distinction is in the agency's name: FOOD and DRUG Administration

Some are arguing for the FDA to reclassify food supplements as drugs. The FDA already doesn't do a very good job regulating drugs. An FDA with a greatly expanded charter would be a nightmare agency.
 
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rambot

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Comprehensive truth in labeling laws already exist for food products. If there are issues with existing laws then those laws need to be revised.
And yet, here we are with supplement and all kinds of other liars making unverified claims. So when you speak of this "comprehensive truth in labelling laws" that already exist, I would posit you seem to be slightly misinformed as to what those laws are actually dealing with.
We don't need a greatly expanded FDA deciding the efficacy, suitability to purpose, and potential side effects for every food based supplement.
Wow.
So you're of the opinion that a company should be able to make ANY claim they want about their product; even a claim that is 100% fabricated.
But were you not also just arguing that it is up to the consumer to make informed choices?

I guess I have to ask: What do you consider to be an "informed choice"?
I consider an "informed choice" to be a choice made with a given set of impartial, proveable information. Appearances here suggest that you believe an "informed choice" is made, essentially with information, regardless of the veracity of that information.
 
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NightHawkeye

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And yet, here we are with supplement and all kinds of other liars making unverified claims. So when you speak of this "comprehensive truth in labelling laws" that already exist, I would posit you seem to be slightly misinformed as to what those laws are actually dealing with.
Hyperbole has long been accepted in food products.

640_bruce_jenner_wheaties.jpg

health-claims-human-foods.jpg


Labeling laws apply to ingredient and nutritional labeling. Do you feel the food industry should be restricted from using hyperbole?
 
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ThatRobGuy

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Comprehensive truth in labeling laws already exist for food products. If there are issues with existing laws then those laws need to be revised.

...Food Products, that's different than the supplement industry. They've lobbied to live outside of that categorization so no, there's no requirement for them to disclose everything (thanks to their buddy Hatch)

I posted pics of the labels in my previous post showing how they use the "proprietary blend" exemption to their advantage.

We have entire stores (like VitaminShoppe and GNC) that have shelves full of modern "snake oil" for obscene prices.

Any "naturopathic" boutique where they're selling you powdered flowers in capsules making all kinds of false promises about what the product can do would be another example.


The only way people would support these things is if they're either A) desperately trying to prop up the "we need government out of everything" narrative, or B) they're in the alt-medicine camp, so they'll blindly defend anything that they see as an opponent to mainstream medicine.
 
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NightHawkeye

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...Food Products, that's different than the supplement industry. They've lobbied to live outside of that categorization so no, there's no requirement for them to disclose everything (thanks to their buddy Hatch)

I posted pics of the labels in my previous post showing how they use the "proprietary blend" exemption to their advantage.
The FDA disagrees. Here, now, directly from the FDA ... Dietary Supplement Labeling Guide

The Nutrition Labeling and Education Act of 1990 amended the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (the act) in a number of important ways. Notably, by requiring that most foods, including dietary supplements, bear nutrition labeling.

The Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act of 1994 (the DSHEA) amended the act, in part, by defining "dietary supplements," adding specific labeling requirements for dietary supplements, and providing for optional labeling statements.

On September 23, 1997 (62 FR 49826), we implemented the DSHEA by publishing several key regulations on the statement of identity, nutrition labeling, ingredient labeling, and nutrient content and health claims for dietary supplements. On June 5, 1998 (63 FR 30615), we amended the regulations pertaining to the nutrition labeling of extracts used in dietary supplements.

On January 15, 1997 (62 FR 2218), we published regulations that require a label warning statement on dietary supplements with added iron. These regulations also required the unit-dose packaging of supplements containing 30 milligrams or more, but this requirement has been eliminated as a result of a court challenge in January, 2003.

On July 11, 2003 (68 FR 41434), we published a final regulation that amended the labeling requirements for dietary supplements, as well as for conventional foods, that would make the declaration of trans fat mandatory in nutrition labeling. This regulation requires that, when present at 0.5 g or more, trans fat be listed in the Supplement Facts panel of dietary supplements on a separate line under the listing of saturated fat by January 1, 2006.

We have prepared this guide to help assure that the dietary supplements sold in the United Stated (U.S.) are properly labeled. This guide applies to dietary supplements produced domestically as well as those produced in foreign countries
.​
 
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ThatRobGuy

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The FDA disagrees. Here, now, directly from the FDA ... Dietary Supplement Labeling Guide

Again, there are exemptions in place (thanks to guys like Hatch) that allow them to ignore some of these rules.

CFR - Code of Federal Regulations Title 21

(a) The label of a dietary supplement that is offered for sale shall bear nutrition labeling in accordance with this regulation unless an exemption is provided for the product in paragraph (h) of this section.


...let's look at (h) shall we...

(h) Dietary supplements are subject to the exemptions specified as follows in:

(1) Section 101.9(j)(1) for foods that are offered for sale by a person who makes direct sales to consumers (i.e., a retailer) who has annual gross sales or business done in sales to consumers that is not more than $500,000 or has annual gross sales made or business done in sales of food to consumers of not more than $50,000, and whose labels, labeling, and advertising do not provide nutrition information or make a nutrient content or health claim;

(2) Section 101.9(j)(18) for foods that are low-volume products (that is, they meet the requirements for units sold in 101.9(j)(18)(i) or (j)(18)(ii)); that, except as provided in 101.9(j)(18)(iv), are the subject of a claim for an exemption that provides the information required under 101.9(j)(18)(iv), that is filed before the beginning of the time period for which the exemption is claimed, and that is filed by a person, whether it is the manufacturer, packer, or distributor, that qualifies to claim the exemption under the requirements for average full-time equivalent employees in 101.9(j)(18)(i) or (j)(18)(ii), and whose labels, labeling, and advertising do not provide nutrition information or make a nutrient content or health claim;

You review that statute and find...

(j) The following foods are exempt from this section or are subject to special labeling requirements:

(1)(i) Food offered for sale by a person who makes direct sales to consumers (e.g., a retailer) who has annual gross sales made or business done in sales to consumers that is not more than $500,000 or has annual gross sales made or business done in sales of food to consumers of not more than $50,000, Provided, That the food bears no nutrition claims or other nutrition information in any context on the label or in labeling or advertising. Claims or other nutrition information subject the food to the provisions of this section, 101.10, or 101.11, as applicable.

(ii) For purposes of this paragraph, calculation of the amount of sales shall be based on the most recent 2-year average of business activity. Where firms have been in business less than 2 years, reasonable estimates must indicate that annual sales will not exceed the amounts specified. For foreign firms that ship foods into the United States, the business activities to be included shall be the total amount of food sales, as well as other sales to consumers, by the firm in the United States.


Basically, if any of the following is true, they can utilize the "proprietary blend loophole"
- The company is "Direct to Consumer" and makes less than $500k year
- Has fewer than 100 full time employees (which, in an of itself, is a massive loophole)
- Doesn't make a nutrient content or health claim on the packaging



That's why you see the implied claims on the packaging are very vaguely worded so they can "imply, then deny", and these companies will have a staff where the overwhelming majority are "part time" employees with only a few being qualified as full time.

Now, if these exemptions didn't exist, then I'd agree with you that simply enforcing the laws already on the books would be mostly sufficient as that would be enough to shut most of these nonsense-peddlers down.
 
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rambot

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Hyperbole has long been accepted in food products.

640_bruce_jenner_wheaties.jpg

health-claims-human-foods.jpg


Labeling laws apply to ingredient and nutritional labeling. Do you feel the food industry should be restricted from using hyperbole?
1)A trademarked slogan should not be confused with a scientific claim.
2) Putting a bunch of health labels up from food does not indicate they are FALSE (ie...Kool aid jammers may indeed have 100% of your vit. C). Also, I would note that the Motts for tots explains their claim of immune support (and as far as I know, it is not false).
What's wrong with the act in practice?
Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act of 1994 - Wikipedia
 
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ThatRobGuy

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What does Orin Hatch have to do with Wheaties?

Nothing...the other poster was putting those pictures in trying to imply that what Hatch has done, by helping to create a bunch of product labeling and regulation loopholes for the supplement industry, is somehow moral equivalents with Wheaties putting "Breakfast of Champions" on their box.

...which, obviously, we know is a false premise because Wheaties putting that on their box doesn't exempt them from still having to list all of their ingredients on the side.

Whereas, an online supplement company can market a product called "SuperFatBurn 5000", and as long as they don't explicitly say "it'll burn fat" on the packaging (even though the name clearly implies that, and they know darn well that's what a buyer will think it does), or the company that makes it has fewer than 100 full-time employees, they can conceal their ingredients and ingredient amounts behind the line item "Proprietary Blend", and sell it to unwitting customers for $60/bottle.


That's the issue that many of us have with Hatch, he's essentially allowed the supplement and alt-medicine industries to run wild, not for any sincere interest out of health or science, but simply because 1/3 of those products are made in the state of Utah, and he has multiple members of his extended family who are high up in those industries. Or in more plain terms "Let shady companies sell potentially harmful substances to people, or let them sell do-nothing supplements for high sums, because it's good for my state's economy and my son-in-law's and my cousin's companies will stand to make a lot of money"


Now, I'm not convinced that Hatch leaving will necessarily dissolve that issue, there will always be a willing player who will be more than happy to take a six-figure campaign donation from the supplement industry in order to keep these exemption in tact.
 
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TLK Valentine

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1)A trademarked slogan should not be confused with a scientific claim.

If more people were able to tell the difference, the FDA wouldn't be as busy as it is.
 
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