Senate votes to give illegals Social Security

[OhhJim]

I'm sure the oh, so conservative President Bush will veto this if it passes, like any good Republican. And if he doesn't, those who voted for him can look in the mirror...

 

[Rosebaronet]

If President Bush veto it, do you think the congress would hate him enough to counter-veto it? lol

 

[OhhJim]

If President Bush veto it, do you think the congress would hate him enough to counter-veto it? lol

Considering a majority of congress is Republican, no. Considering Bush's approval ratings, yes. Which is to say, it will be interesting.

 

[SummerMadness]

I wonder if people voted it down because of something like this:

A) IN GENERAL.--An alien is ineligible for adjustment to lawful permanent resident status under this section if--

(i) the alien has been ordered removed from the United States--

(I) for overstaying the period of authorized admission under section 217;
(II) under section 235 or 238; or
(III) pursuant to a final order of removal under section 240;
​

(ii) the alien failed to depart the United States during the period of a voluntary departure order issued under section 240B;

(iii) the Secretary of Homeland Security determines that--

(I) the alien, having been convicted by a final judgment of a serious crime, constitutes a danger to the community of the United States;
(II) there are reasonable grounds for believing that the alien has committed a serious crime outside the United States prior to the arrival of the alien in the United States; or
(III) there are reasonable grounds for regarding the alien as a danger to the security of the United States; or
​

(iv) the alien has been convicted of a felony or 3 or more misdemeanors.​

There are many people that are awaiting their paperwork to get through and are technically overstaying their visas, thus they are illegal aliens. I remember someone a family member of mine worked with in a government job was an "illegal alien" for several weeks due to something with paperwork. This person came to the country legally and did all that was required, but would be punished under this bill for that overstay time (thought I don't know what they're referring to with regard to section 217).

The problem with this debate is that so much time has been spent on making illegal immigrants about Mexicans crossing the border, which has been used to whip up hatred in my opinion. Now you have this bill that looks like it could affect more than the image they're portraying. I'm sure when people read this headline, they thought of all these Mexicans collecting Social Security (which was the aim to make you more angry), instead of thinking in the broader sense of people that may just be in document limbo.

Now some people will argue, they should leave, but I would hope someone differentiates between someone overstaying their visa for a year and another overstaying a few weeks with documents pending. Should a person really leave their job and fly back home when they are needed on staff?

 

[rosenherman]

\

I think you misunderstand actually.

This is granted to immigrants that have paid into the medicare and social security program. If immigrants know they are paying into something they can later draw from for retirement, they will be far more apt to pay taxes/social security.

Illegals use, here's a surprise, false social security numbers. How are they going to handle many applications for benefits from the same social security number?

 

[Ave Maria]

I'm sure the oh, so conservative President Bush will veto this if it passes, like any good Republican. And if he doesn't, those who voted for him can look in the mirror...

I sure hope President Bush vetoes it.

 

[LogicChristian]

Illegals use, here's a surprise, false social security numbers. How are they going to handle many applications for benefits from the same social security number?

By tracking which employer the social security number was used at for instance.

 

[LogicChristian]

I sure hope President Bush vetoes it.

So the government will lose even more money by having more illegals circumvent paying social security and taxes?

The deficit is high enough as is...

 

[Ave Maria]

So the government will lose even more money by having more illegals circumvent paying social security and taxes?

The deficit is high enough as is...

I don't understand what you are saying. The way I understand it, if this becomes a law, then we will lose money because illegal immigrants will be getting social security benefits but they won't be putting anything into the social security fund. Please explain!

 

[LogicChristian]

I don't understand what you are saying. The way I understand it, if this becomes a law, then we will lose money because illegal immigrants will be getting social security benefits but they won't be putting anything into the social security fund. Please explain!

I haven't seen an article that says immigrants are getting it without paying in. What I'm reading thus far is that immigrants that can show they were paying into the system can get social security.

 

[LogicChristian]

If anyone cared to read the article from post #3...

http://www.townhall.com/blogs/capitolreport/TimChapman/story/2006/05/18/197923.html

Senate votes to award illegal aliens Social Security benefits

May 18 2006 02:01 PM
By TimChapman
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The Senate today defeated an amendment offered by Senator John Ensign that would have prohibited illegal aliens from using fraudulent work history to obtain Social Security benefits. I wrote about Ensign's amendment last week. Here is a refresher:

To qualify for full Social Security benefits, a worker must register 10 years of work. Under current law, illegal immigrants who obtain legal status can use their previous illegal work history to apply for Social Security benefits. A compromise immigration bill pending right now in the U.S. Senate (sponsored by Chuck Hagel (R-NE) and Mel Martinez (R-FL)) comes at a time when our nation is facing an enormous crisis on the entitlements front. A recent report moved the year in which Social Security will go broke from 2041 to 2040. Congress cannot afford to keep the promise of Social Security to its own citizens, let alone illegal workers.
To remedy the situation, Sen. John Ensign (R-NV) has offered an amendment to the pending Senate immigration bill that would reverse this law to ensure that law-breakers are not rewarded for their past work at the expense of immigrants who have waited in line and American citizens. Ensign’s amendment may be considered when the Senate takes up the immigration issue yet again -- possibly as soon as next week.






There you have it, 10 years of work. So these are people that have been paying into the system a long while.

​

 

[DrFate]

Fake names and fake numbers often used by many people. They cant possibly make good on the provision if it passes the congress.

 

[Dasalai]

This makes me ill, but I'm kind of apathetic on the issue.

A few years ago, I was a legal immigrant in the States with my own social security. Now, I'm a Korean citizen. Ironically enough, I still feel a bit of anger over this issue.

The fact that illegal immigrants are getting paid to live there in the States with their own social security aggravates me. At least, they should simply legalize the immigrants and make them pay directly out of their wages like they make legal immigrants and citizens. That or, kick them out.

Edit: Nevermind. I read the idea of the social security bill and it doesn't sound so unreasonable.

 

[OhhJim]

I sure hope President Bush vetoes it.

Of course, but do you think he will? Considering that he hasn't vetoed any other bill, yet, I doubt it. Yet conservatives still support him, for some strange reason.

And why did so many Republicans vote for the bill?

 

[jamesrwright3]

This seriously makes me want to go out and start a reform party. We are really digging our own grave. Being nice and good feelings have gotten in the way of sound policy. Rewarding people who used fake social security cards/ID numbers and who snuck across the border is the most assinine thing I have ever heard.

 

[LogicChristian]

This seriously makes me want to go out and start a reform party. We are really digging our own grave. Being nice and good feelings have gotten in the way of sound policy. Rewarding people who used fake social security cards/ID numbers and who snuck across the border is the most assinine thing I have ever heard.

So would you rather have the government not give them social security after paying into the system for 10 years, steal their money, and have the immigrants find a new way of circumventing the tax system?

That sounds like a much better idea!

 

[jamesrwright3]

So would you rather have the government not give them social security after paying into the system for 10 years, steal their money, and have the immigrants find a new way of circumventing the tax system?

That sounds like a much better idea!

No one should be rewarded for breaking the law. That is the bottom line. If they want to come across the border and pay into the system, that is fine with me. No need for us to reciprocate and give them an incentive to come across to begin with.
It would also help make up some of the deficit that cause our governments
Someone has to pay the piper.
Make the illegals pay their own way or at least help contribute

 

[LogicChristian]

No one should be rewarded for breaking the law. That is the bottom line. If they want to come across the border and pay into the system, that is fine with me. No need for us to reciprocate and give them an incentive to come across to begin with.

So in other words: yes, it's perfectly OK to steal their money, right?

The only thing not giving them SS will give them incentive to do is find a way to not pay taxes or SS.

 

[jamesrwright3]

So in other words: yes, it's perfectly OK to steal their money, right?

The only thing not giving them SS will give them incentive to do is find a way to not pay taxes or SS.

No, they steal from the American taxpayer by coming across the border and costing us billions of dollars. We would just be getting some of that money back. Consider it an illegal immigrant tax.

 

[Vylo]

They aren't entitled to social security benefits, or anything else our government provides. They are here illegally and this behavior should not be rewarded, but instead punished, so as to discourage illegal immigration altogether.