jamesrwright3 said:
You can't separate out those who provided a net benefit to the USA to those which are a drain on our governments. You have to look at the problem as a whole. Illegal immigrants are causing a net DRAIN on the American taxpayer, especially that of the local government. The ability to collect benefits gives the illegals an incentive to cross the border. If they are crossing illegal, as you say, then they shouldn't expect to collect benefits even if they pay into the system. We are the only country which would entertain such madness. So if you look at the problem as a whole, them paying into the system and not getting anything back is not stealing, but helping to rectify the negative financial impacts of illegal immigration
Do you really think that denying illegal immigrants social security after 10 years is really going to keep people from coming into the country? The fact is, not giving them social security isn't going to noticably decrease the number coming in. Thus, it makes sense to get taxes out of the ones that are here.
jamesrwright3 said:
You would have a better argument if the illegals didn't create net deficit for the taxpayer. As I have said before, you can't separate out those who are net gain to us to those who cause us a net negative. The problem is incenctives. We shouldn't provide any benefits, including health care services, to those who are here illegally. No other country would do the same thing. Just because we are the most power nation in the world doesn't mean we should get rid of logic and start adopting policies which end up biting us in the butt. Common sense should prevail.
Can you even prove that illegals cause a net deficit for the taxpayer. You should also factor in the vastly decreased cost of goods and services in some sectors due to the immigrants. If common sense prevailed, we wouldn't be complaining about these people not paying taxes while giving them every incentive possible not to pay them.
Also, do you think it's going to be cheaper to track down and deport 12 million people than it is to have them work in our country while many, if not most, pay taxes? If common sense were the basis of policy, we'd be allowing these people guest worker status and make all of them pay taxes instead of setting up laws that ignore these people and give them no legal status.
jamesrwright3 said:
No the primary problem they keep coming in is we refuse to enforce the borders, give them welfare, have the insane baby drop law which enables them to have a b line to citizenship, and we don't enforce the laws against employers which ends up hurting the job prospects of American citizens.
Unemployment is under 5%. These people aren't hurting American job prospects much, if any.
The reason we don't enforce the border, have the baby drop law, and don't penalize employers is because of logistical, geographical, demographical, and economic reality. The fact is, the US government and taxpayers aren't willing to foot the bill for keeping all these people out and deporting the ones that are here, because it's considerably more expensive to keep them all out and ship the ones that are here back than it is to maintain the status quo. Unfortunately, laws don't reflect this reality.
jamesrwright3 said:
Sorry, your argument is senseless.
Just show me one study that shows these people provide a net overall benefit, in terms of dollars for America. I have not seen a single study which indicates the credits outweight the debits or one where the credits even come close to balancing out the debits.
Sure thing.
http://usliberals.about.com/od/immigration/a/IllegalImmi.htm
Make sure you note the part about how illegals pay $7 billion into SS anually, and $1.5 billion into medicare, while most illegals never receive benefits.
This one is a little old, but the basic economic factors remain unchanged.
http://sorrel.humboldt.edu/~economic/econ104/immigrat/
These folks point out a lot of facts about illegal immigration and also refer to other research papers that demonstrate facts such as immigrants do not displace large numbers of native workers.
http://www.cato.org/pubs/policy_report/pr-imsum.html
jamesrwright3 said:
You are taking the position that public welfare benefits overall are not an incentive for illegal immigrants to cross the border and immigrants provide a net gain for the American economy and their prescence doesn't affect the work of American citizens who happen to be in the areas which have a large proportion of immigrants which is ludicrous.
No, it's not ludicrous. The average illegal immigrant coming into this nation benefits little if any from American public welfare programs.
Their presence does affect the work of American workers, but usually only those with lower than a high school education. Also, unemployment in the USA has been low for years. It's pretty hard to make a case here (unlike say, Europe for instance) that illegals are displacing American workers on a massive scale. On the whole, illegals are working jobs that Americans simply wouldn't work for the same wages.
jamesrwright3 said:
Just answer me this, do any studies show they pay in more than they take out? The answer is no.They are stealing from the government, which is the American taxpayer, plain and simple.
That's not the truth, plain and simple. Even with the center for immigration studies website down, I was able to find a few, and references to many, many more just by googling.