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Featured Self Defense

Discussion in 'Christian Advice' started by Lord'sWarrior, Aug 23, 2017.

  1. LoricaLady

    LoricaLady YHWH's Supporter

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    Yes, of course you can defend yourself if necessary. Would you defend a child from an attacker? Well, you are your Heavenly Father's child! In the Bible we see people defending themselves, even their nations in war.
     
  2. Sammy-San

    Sammy-San Newbie

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    People say lethal force is justified if somebody is a rapist or potential one. But as a Christian, why Potentially take away a person's chance to be saved from eternal hell and agony to potentially save another person from a moment of suffering?
     
  3. Conker

    Conker A Soul Being Saved By God

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    Exodus 22:2-3 King James Version (KJV)
    2 If a thief be found breaking up, and be smitten that he die, there shall no blood be shed for him.
    3 If the sun be risen upon him, there shall be blood shed for him; for he should make full restitution; if he have nothing, then he shall be sold for his theft.

    This here is definitely saying self defense is permissible, but it would not say that to kill someone during the day would be okay, unless it was in the necessary defense of his own life. (Keep in mind this is in the context of theft, and the old testament, but moral principles are still applicable)

    Matthew 5:38-39 King James Version (KJV)
    38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
    39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

    Matthew 5:39 is the verse everyone loves to throw around, but if you look at the verse before it you see it is obviously talking about getting revenge. I would also dare say that it is not just a coincidence that the verse does not say "but whosoever shall beat the heck out of you, let him keep beating you."
    It's clear this verse isn't talking about self defense but about revenge which is something that is forbidden throughout the Bible. There is a difference between getting back at someone and defending yourself.


    Luke 22:36-38 King James Version (KJV)
    36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
    37 For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.
    38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.

    Now why would Jesus be saying to get swords, if it was not okay to defend yourself? With that said we shouldn't be quick to turn to violence as shown by the following three passages. (do keep in mind that it was Jesus' plan to be taken to be murdered)

    Luke 22:49-53 King James Version (KJV)
    49 When they which were about him saw what would follow, they said unto him, Lord, shall we smite with the sword?
    50 And one of them smote the servant of the high priest, and cut off his right ear.
    51 And Jesus answered and said, Suffer ye thus far. And he touched his ear, and healed him.
    52 Then Jesus said unto the chief priests, and captains of the temple, and the elders, which were come to him, Be ye come out, as against a thief, with swords and staves?
    53 When I was daily with you in the temple, ye stretched forth no hands against me: but this is your hour, and the power of darkness.
    Matthew 26:51-56 King James Version (KJV)
    51 And, behold, one of them which were with Jesus stretched out his hand, and drew his sword, and struck a servant of the high priest's, and smote off his ear.
    52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.
    53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?
    54 But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?
    55 In that same hour said Jesus to the multitudes, Are ye come out as against a thief with swords and staves for to take me? I sat daily with you teaching in the temple, and ye laid no hold on me.
    56 But all this was done, that the scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled. Then all the disciples forsook him, and fled.
    John 18:10-11 King James Version (KJV)
    10 Then Simon Peter having a sword drew it, and smote the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant's name was Malchus.
    11 Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?


    Nehemiah 4:14-23 King James Version (KJV)
    14 And I looked, and rose up, and said unto the nobles, and to the rulers, and to the rest of the people, Be not ye afraid of them: remember the Lord, which is great and terrible, and fight for your brethren, your sons, and your daughters, your wives, and your houses.
    15 And it came to pass, when our enemies heard that it was known unto us, and God had brought their counsel to nought, that we returned all of us to the wall, every one unto his work.
    16 And it came to pass from that time forth, that the half of my servants wrought in the work, and the other half of them held both the spears, the shields, and the bows, and the habergeons; and the rulers were behind all the house of Judah.
    17 They which builded on the wall, and they that bare burdens, with those that laded, every one with one of his hands wrought in the work, and with the other hand held a weapon.
    18 For the builders, every one had his sword girded by his side, and so builded. And he that sounded the trumpet was by me.
    19 And I said unto the nobles, and to the rulers, and to the rest of the people, The work is great and large, and we are separated upon the wall, one far from another.
    20 In what place therefore ye hear the sound of the trumpet, resort ye thither unto us: our God shall fight for us.
    21 So we laboured in the work: and half of them held the spears from the rising of the morning till the stars appeared.
    22 Likewise at the same time said I unto the people, Let every one with his servant lodge within Jerusalem, that in the night they may be a guard to us, and labour on the day.
    23 So neither I, nor my brethren, nor my servants, nor the men of the guard which followed me, none of us put off our clothes, saving that every one put them off for washing.

    Again there is talk of using weapons to protect ourselves, but we must not be hasty to turn to violence, and to manipulate self defense, to justify our actions which are not applicable.
     
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  4. Divide

    Divide Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. I had an attempted home invasion by a single assailant, when my Spidey sense tingled (sic) and I said no you can't use my phone, it was on. He attacked and we fought on the front porch, broke the screen door glass etc., Then at the first break, I drew my 45 on him. He looked at me for two seconds...and came at me!

    I didn't want to shoot him, but he was not coming in! So I pondered, do I have time for a warning shot into the grass, while retreating into the house...and still have time to shoot him if he did keep coming? (Things were in slo-mo)
    Yes I had time. So I did. And the bark of that big 45 did convince him that he was late for an appointment somewhere, lol.
    The idea is to survive (and repel boarders in that instance) so I won. I am so glad he didn't force me to shoot him.
     
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  5. Divide

    Divide Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely, after all, it's only your Wife and she's already saved, right?...uh, no. No no no!
    I hear your sympathy for unsaved souls and you're right in that, souls are the most valuable thing on earth...
    But you're wrong in that we've made a choice to take that person's life. It's them who make the choice to put you into the position of fight or flight. They force you to defend yourself. ;)
     
  6. Sammy-San

    Sammy-San Newbie

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    Anti abortion violence is wrong. What do you think makes this situation different?
     
  7. Divide

    Divide Well-Known Member

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    Huh? What makes you think it's the same?!
     
  8. Divide

    Divide Well-Known Member

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    Anti-abortion violence is going on the offensive. There's nothing defensive about it.
     
  9. Sammy-San

    Sammy-San Newbie

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    aren't the unborn just as human from a christian pov?
     
  10. Adstar

    Adstar Well-Known Member

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    I believe we should not respond to violence with violence.. I believe we should love our enemy.. It's hard.. And we often fail.. But thanks be to the Atonement of the LORD Jesus Christ our transgressions against His will shall be covered..
     
  11. Sammy-San

    Sammy-San Newbie

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    I'm saying if somebody breaks into your house there are ways to defend yourself and others without the "kill them so you don't miss" attitude.
     
  12. Divide

    Divide Well-Known Member

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    Yes they are, but clearly there is a difference between violence of an offensive nature, and a defensive nature. Defensive is exigent circumstances. Offensive is of a vengeful nature, and God says, vengeance is mine. So there's no comparison here between the two scenarios. Anyone who thinks there is, is a wacko, or, hasn't thought the situation through well enough. :)
     
  13. Sammy-San

    Sammy-San Newbie

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    Its not even that what about post 31.
     
  14. Divide

    Divide Well-Known Member

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    I hadn't seen this. The same thing as I described in my post about my attempted home invasion. If practical, try to scare or otherwise drive them out, and if possible, good. If not, Stop Them. It's not about try to kill them, but rather stop them. If they do die, well...maybe they should not have broke in..
     
  15. Divide

    Divide Well-Known Member

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    You brought up anti-abortion violence first!
     
  16. Divide

    Divide Well-Known Member

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    Strangely enough, I agree with this. Approach it this way. Violence is only called for if they force you too.
     
  17. Adstar

    Adstar Well-Known Member

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    As far as i am concerned it is better to be killed, then be a killer...
     
  18. Poppyseed78

    Poppyseed78 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I don't know if you're saying this facetiously or not. If someone is threatening bodily harm against us or others, we are not responsible for making sure they have a chance to be saved. And a rape or other violent attack is not just "moment of suffering," it can cause physical and psychological damage that lasts a lifetime. If someone threatens to hurt someone, they will need to face the consequences. I would not sit by and let an attacker hurt me or my family just so that he has a chance to be saved from eternal hell. He gives up his freedom, and possibly his potential salvation, by threatening harm to another person. That's his choice, not mine, and he is responsible for his choices.
     
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  19. Sammy-San

    Sammy-San Newbie

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    Do you agree what pro life extremists like Scott Roeder do is not christian and they are frauds?
     
  20. Poppyseed78

    Poppyseed78 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I actually had to look up that name, since I didn't know who he is. I see he shot and killed an abortion doctor in 2009.

    I don't condone his actions.

    However, I think that's very different from the kind of situation I was describing. Let's say, hypotethically, a man breaks into a house and tries to abduct a 10-year-old girl from her bed. Should the girl's father stand by and let his daughter get kidnapped? Of course not. So, let's say the father has a gun, and he then shoots the man to protect his child. The intruder ends up dying.

    Is the father a murderer? No. He did what he had to do to protect his child. It is not the father's fault that the kidnapper died while trying to kidnap a child. The kidnapper loses his chance at salvation, but it's not the father's fault. It is a direct consequence of his own actions.
     
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