Seemingly Anti-OSAS Scriptures

[BNR32FAN]

Because they are not producing fruit. A believer who quenches the Spirit or grieves the Spirit and does not walk in the Spirit while filled with the Spirit is LIKE a branch thrown into the fire......

1 Cor 3:15~~New American Standard Bible
If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

Ok you didn’t answer the question so I will answer it for you. Jesus was talking to His apostles when He said remain in me and I will remain in you and every branch of mine that doesn’t produce fruit will be cut off, thrown away, and burned. His apostles who did believe and are written in the book of life with the exception of Judas. So why did Jesus tell His apostles this if they cannot lose their salvation and they only need to believe?

 

[Gr8Grace]

Who was not producing fruit? Who was Jesus talking to?

Focus. Focus. He was talking to believers. If you and I do not produce DIVINE( I will guess you have no clue the difference of human good and DIVINE good) fruit.......we are LIKE a branch thrown into the fire.

1 Cor 3:15~~New American Standard Bible
If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

 

[Gr8Grace]

I’m just saying believing is not the only requirement.

That is why you have stricken John 6:40 and John 6:47 and many others from the bible......my friend. Because there is no caveat other than simply believing, in these and many other verses.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Focus. Focus. He was talking to believers. If you and I do not produce DIVINE( I will guess you have no clue the difference of human good and DIVINE good) fruit.......we are LIKE a branch thrown into the fire.

1 Cor 3:15~~New American Standard Bible
If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

1 Corinthians 3:15 is about how our works will be rewarded in heaven and it is the works that are tested by fire not the believer. 1 Corinthians 3:15 isn’t even relevant to this discussion. The branch is tossed away and burned. Tossed away is not saved. 1 Corinthians is talking about believers who have done good works and John 15:1-8 is warning believers that they must do good works or they will be tossed away and burned. Cut off from Jesus and Jesus will not remain in them. How is that the same situation if the believer is still saved in 1 Corinthians 3:15? How can the believer be saved as thru fire if they are cut off from Jesus?

 

[Gr8Grace]

The scripture does not say they “seek” his good work.

Amazing. You preach over and over and over and over to follow Him for your salvation. At least this is an open admission to 'Seek' your own works for eternal life.

 

[Gr8Grace]

1 Corinthians 3:15 is about how our works will be rewarded in heaven and it is the works that are tested by fire not the believer. 1 Corinthians 3:15 isn’t even relevant to this discussion. The branch is tossed away and burned. Tossed away is not saved. 1 Corinthians is talking about believers who have done good works and John 15:1-8 is warning believers that they must do good works or they will be tossed away and burned. Cut off from Jesus and Jesus will not remain in them. How is that the same situation if the believer is still saved in 1 Corinthians 3:15? How can the believer be saved as thru fire if they are cut off from Jesus?

So you didn't see that this is a farming metaphor and they are cut off LIKE a branch? Did you notice that BIG, RED, LIKE?

Our works will be burned up. Yet, we WILL be saved as if through fire if we do not do DIVINE GOOD. Why try so hard to condemn believers when they have the promise that they will never, no not ever be condemned? John 5:24. John 10:28.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Thankfully we can fast forward to that Day and know the truth.

eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;​

God who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:
eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath
Romans 2:6-8

Still rejecting what ELSE Paul wrote in Romans, huh. Rom 3:9 and 23 say that every human being is a sinner and has fallen short of the glory of God.

Therefore, NO ONE can earn eternal life. That is WHY Jesus came to earth, fulfilled the Law perfectly (the only human to do so), and took our penalty of sin upon Himself, and gives the free gift of eternal life to those who believe in Him for it.

John 3:15,16, 36, 5:24, 6:47, 1 John 5:13.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Why don’t you post the scripture itself and the context?

Why don't you do some homework? Or are you just too lazy to do that? At least move your cursor to the verse I cite so you can at least read the verse for yourself.

My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:27-28

Those who hear and obey Him, so that they follow Him will receive eternal life.

No, His sheep receive eternal life. And John 10:9 specifies WHO become His sheep; those who "enter through Him", a metaphor for believing in Him.

By posting the scripture we see what you want to hide.

I've hidden nothing. In fact, I consistently expose your duplicitous motivation and lies.

Again the scripture and context -

“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man. Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:24-29

At least you've included v.24, but in everything you post, YOU DO NOT BELIEVE THAT VERSE.

Why? Because that verse teaches eternal security. Those who believe:
1. have passed from spiritual death to spiritual life
2. HAVE eternal life (present tense)
3. will NOT come into condemnation

Your view is that believers CAN come into condemnation.

You can’t hide from the truth.

Never have. You, otoh, continue to do so.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Lady Bug said: ↑
the Calvinist version of Eternal Security isn't the same as OSAS...

Calvinist version is like..."if you fall away at the last moment of your life you were never truly saved for all those years of your life...you are eternal secure if you are obedient your whole life" but with that method you can never know you're eternal secure until you're dead.

Actually you only need to be a believer at the time of death to be written into the book of life.

Lady Bug, this is totally FALSE. Once eternal life is given to those who believe in Christ, per John 5:24, 6:47, and 1 John 5:13, they shall never perish, per John 10:28.

These Arminians just don't believe what is so clearly stated by Jesus Himself.

Yet they have the audacity to claim they follow Jesus. But they sure don't believe what He teaches.

 

[BNR32FAN]

So you didn't see that this is a farming metaphor and they are cut off LIKE a branch? Did you notice that BIG, RED, LIKE?

Our works will be burned up. Yet, we WILL be saved as if through fire if we do not do DIVINE GOOD. Why try so hard to condemn believers when they have the promise that they will never, no not ever be condemned? John 5:24. John 10:28.

How does that even matter? If you are cut off from Jesus LIKE a branch is cut off of a vine how does that make any difference? Your still cut of from Jesus. The branch is TOSSED AWAY AND BURNED. Does that sound like salvation to you? Keep in mind Jesus is saying this to His apostles so there’s no question whether they believe or not. It is written as plain as can be. How can you not see this?

 

[BNR32FAN]

So you didn't see that this is a farming metaphor and they are cut off LIKE a branch? Did you notice that BIG, RED, LIKE?

Our works will be burned up. Yet, we WILL be saved as if through fire if we do not do DIVINE GOOD. Why try so hard to condemn believers when they have the promise that they will never, no not ever be condemned? John 5:24. John 10:28.

““I tell you the truth, those who listen to my message and believe in God who sent me have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their sins, but they have already passed from death into life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭

Is Jesus saying only believe? No LISTEN to His message just like John 10:27-28.

“My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can snatch them away from me,”
‭‭John‬ ‭10:27-28‬

Again those who LISTEN and FOLLOW will never perish. And again Jesus doesn’t say only believe.

Again in John 6:45

“As it is written in the Scriptures, ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:45‬

In every case where you post a scripture where Jesus is taking about salvation within 2 sentences of the verse you post He says LISTEN, FOLLOW, LEARN. In every case these are stipulations for being saved. Please stop reading single verses and read the chapter to get the full picture. Not for your own sake because I believe you are devoted to serving God and I’m willing to bet that you do produce fruit but for those who are new Christians and weak in their faith don’t mislead them with the false hope that they can be saved by simply believing.

 

[JLB777]

Amazing. You preach over and over and over and over to follow Him for your salvation. At least this is an open admission to 'Seek' your own works for eternal life.

Not true.

I teach that the result of hearing His Voice and following Him, (obeying Him) is to be given, which is to say, inherit eternal life.


My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. John 10:27-28


again


Then Peter answered and said to Him, “See, we have left all and followed You. Therefore what shall we have?”
So Jesus said to them, “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My name’s sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life.
Matthew 19:27-29

shall receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life.


When we first believe, we then come to be in Christ, whereby we are joined to Him and are one spirit with Him; one spirit with the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus.


But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.
1 Corinthians 6:17


As long as we remain in Christ during our life, we continue to have eternal life in us because we are joined to Him; one spirit with Him.


Then on that Day -

God who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
Romans 2:6-7


JLB

 

[BNR32FAN]

Amazing. You preach over and over and over and over to follow Him for your salvation. At least this is an open admission to 'Seek' your own works for eternal life.

We do good works so that God’s glory may be seen by the world. So that we may be a light to others and because God has commanded us to do so. Our works do not earn our salvation. I’ve explained this to you & F2G several times already. James 2;14-26 James speaks of two types of faith. A saving faith that produces works and a dead and useless faith that does not produce works and is not a saving faith. We are saved by having a faith that produces works not by simply believing that Jesus is the Son of God, God Himself, that He died for our sins and was resurrected. Believing means you believe in Him and you believe EVERYTHING He said and taught. Not just bits & pieces. As I said before in EVERY SINGLE SCRIPTURE you quoted from Jesus He specifically says within 2 sentences of the verse you quoted that you must listen, follow, and learn from Him. You must listen to His teaching, learn from them, and follow His teachings. NOWHERE does Jesus ever say you are saved simply by believing. Sure you can find a single verse that says that but not an entire message from Jesus in any chapter of the Bible.

 

[GodsGrace101]

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
How does the notion that one can lose salvation edify anyone?

First, Jesus taught eternal security, and no one has proven John 10:28 teaches the opposite, or even "something else".

Second, there's nothing edifying by removing the assurance of security, which Jesus taught, but you refuse to accept.


This is just awful. Why would a "life of sin" result in loss of salvation? Jesus died for ALL sin. So your opinion is against Scripture. And there aren't any verses that support your claims here. None.


This isn't about feeling good anyway. So your opinion is wrong again. Edification is to BUILD UP one's faith, not make them feel good.

How is one's faith built up by the claim that they'd better watch their step or their Heavenly Father will send them to hell?? That's just horrible, and totally lacks the grace of God.

The point of one's guaranteed security is to create a sense of gratitude that just as there is nothing that one can do to earn salvation, in the same way, there's nothing they can do to lose it, and this should draw that person closer to the Lord, knowing they are secure.

The problem that I've seen repeated with your ilk is your "automatic" default that "if" one is secure, then they will just go out and live like hell. Such an attitude seems pretty universal among your ilk.

But, while there may be some idiots among the OSAS crowd who think like that, it's sure not universal at all.

And when doctrinal truth is BALANCED by the doctrine of God's discipline for rebellion, people know that they won't "get away" with anything.


He sure does, and we see it every day on this forum when posters claim that salvation can be lost.

What this demonic teaching does is create a "works salvation" type of thinking; that one MUST "live right" in order to get to heaven. Which totally dismisses the fact that Jesus did it ALL. So the view is blasphemous. And satan sure loves that!!


Pure and sheer nonsense. Jesus taught it and John 10:28 crushes your demonic doctrine.


But you believe MORE than this. You believe that if one ceases to believe, they cease to be saved. And that without any evidence at all from Scripture.

You begin this part by noting that Scripture is easy to read.

So where are all these "easy to read" verses that teach that ceasing to believe results in ceasing to be saved? huh?

Instead, we have "easy to read" verses like these:

Eph 1-
13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,
14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

Eph 4:30 - And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

The red words are words of eternal security, for those whose eyes and ears are open.

2 Cor 1:22 - set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

2 Cor 5:5 - Now the one who has fashioned us for this very purpose is God, who has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

Paul, who also wrote Ephesians, wrote "guaranteeing what is to come" TWICE in 2 Cor.

Why is that? He was emphasizing our security about what is to come.

What is to come is our inheritance as God's possession.

1. Jesus did not teach eternal security. He taught that we must ABIDE IN HIM if we want to be secure. As long as we abide in Him we are secure.
John 15:1-6
John 11:25-26
John 5:12

2. Here's why a LIFE OF SIN would result in loss of salvation (which you deny above):

Revelation 20:27
Revelation 3:5
Peter 1:13-17
Hebrews 4:3-13
Ephesians 5:5
and many more...

3. We achieve heaven at the end of our life...not now.
Philippians 3:11-12
Timothy 4:16

4. Yes, we MUST LIVE RIGHT, in order to get to heaven.
Colossians 4:5-6
1 Timothy 6:3-4

5. If you cease to believe, you cease to be saved:
Hebrews 3:14

You never take two verses and pit them against the entire N.T. You never take unclear verses and pit them against very clear verses.

Hermeneutics.
Exegesis.

 

[Gr8Grace]

““I tell you the truth, those who listen to my message and believe in God who sent me have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their sins, but they have already passed from death into life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭


“As it is written in the Scriptures, ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:45‬
Is Jesus saying only believe? No LISTEN to His message just like John 10:27-28.

John 6:40~~New American Standard Bible
"For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

John 6:47~~New American Standard Bible
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

LISTEN to this message of truth and BELIEVE....... and you will be saved. Acts 16:31





Eph 1:13~~New American Standard Bible
In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation-- having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

 

[GodsGrace101]

Don't you remember? The tulip is withered and dead in my belief system. John Calvin came up with a subtle deception(works salvation hid in intellect and subtle wording) that hid the outright deception of his day. He believed the EXACT same thing that the early religionist's believed. He was just more subtle about it.

The Lord Jesus Christ, Paul, John, Jude and all scripture writers taught eternal security.....The early church messed it ALL up.


So I guess you don't remember our conversation from just a few short days ago. Calvin didnt teach 'preservation' of the saints. He taught perseverance of the saints. Which is a more subtle approach of working for salvation than yours. You and calvin line up in more ways than you think.



LOL>You can't care to know what it is because .............you would have to concede.

I don't care for the way you cut out part of what I say to make it sound like I'm saying something different.

In the future please post my ENTIRE statement or don't reply to me.

 

[GodsGrace101]

1 Corinthians 3:15 is about how our works will be rewarded in heaven and it is the works that are tested by fire not the believer. 1 Corinthians 3:15 isn’t even relevant to this discussion. The branch is tossed away and burned. Tossed away is not saved. 1 Corinthians is talking about believers who have done good works and John 15:1-8 is warning believers that they must do good works or they will be tossed away and burned. Cut off from Jesus and Jesus will not remain in them. How is that the same situation if the believer is still saved in 1 Corinthians 3:15? How can the believer be saved as thru fire if they are cut off from Jesus?

Excellent!!

 

[JLB777]

LISTEN to this message of truth and BELIEVE....... and you will be saved. Acts 16:31

Believe in the original means trust and commit to obey [as Lord].


Our Lord, our Master, is the one we obey, whether sin unto death or obedience to Him who is within our heart unto righteousness.


As long as we continue to believe, trust and obey Him, we can indeed be assured of eternal life.

• he who does not obey the Son will not see life,

He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him. John 3:36


We must continue to believe, trust and demonstrate that we believe and trust and are committed to Him as our Lord, by continuing to obey what He has taught us: His teaching - His doctrine.


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9

• does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God

This is so crystal clear, and must be reconciled into any sound doctrine.


We must continue to obey, remain, abide in Christ's teachings, or we no longer have God.




JLB

 

[GodsGrace101]

John 6:40~~New American Standard Bible
"For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

John 6:47~~New American Standard Bible
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

LISTEN to this message of truth and BELIEVE....... and you will be saved. Acts 16:31





Eph 1:13~~New American Standard Bible
In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation-- having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Hanging on to Ephesians 1:13 will not be your salvation.
It's not the only verse in the N.T., as you might know.
Your hermeunetics leave much to be desired.

And YOU should speak with some respect to others and YOU should also listen and hear. Those of the OSAS concept seem never to have read Mathew 5:3-10.

John 6:40
John 6:47
Acts 16:31

By your very own hand, you have right there THREE OF MANY verses that show one must BELIEVE, PRESENT TENSE, in order to be saved.

Putting aside the fact that you don't seem to understand what BELIEVE means, or you ignore what it means.

You're sealed for as long as you believe...
When you stop believing, you stop being saved.
Hebrews 5:9
9And having been made perfect, He became to all those who obey Him the source of eternal salvation,

Believing mentally is not sufficient,
Believing also means obeying...(in the Greek you so love).

 

[JLB777]

Eph 1:13~~New American Standard Bible
In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation-- having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

The Holy Spirit is given to those who believe: trust, and are committed to obey.

There is no doubt about this.


However, when we are distracted and wander away from Him is disobedience, we are longer believing and trusting and obeying Him.


JLB