Seemingly Anti-OSAS Scriptures

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
I, otoh, believe what Paul wrote about the sealing ministry of the Holy Spirit. That it is a deposit which guarantees our inheritance for the day of redemption as God's possession, as Eph 1:14 says.

This promise is for those who believe.

Is a person who believes for a while, then no longer believes, still a believer?JLB

Why did you ignore or reject the aorist tense, translated as a PAST TENSE for believing in Eph 1:14?

And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

What time frame do the red words indicate? Present time or past time?

 

[GodsGrace101]

Wow. Is that really how you view God? As a shirker? Untrustworthy "party".

Eph 1:14 isn't about buying a house, for crying out loud. I can hardly believe I'm reading your words here.

Eph 1:14 is about the GUARANTEE (solemn promise) that the sealing of the Holy Spirit is for our inheritance until redemption as God's possession.

Why is that so hard to believe?

Once again, I refer you to 2 Timothy:

2 Timothy 2:13
13If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.

 

[FreeGrace2]

What do they have access to, if not the eternal life that is in Christ.

Well, it was rather dishonest to only quote so little of what I posted.

You claimed the believer "has access" to eternal life. And I proved you wrong with John 5:24, 6:47 and 1 John 5:13, which STATES that believers possess eternal life.

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

Different subject. Let's move on.

Jesus plainly described this relationship of being in Him.

Not in John 15 He didn't.

He used branches to represent us, and the Vine to represent Him.

And "abiding" to represent fellowship, not relationship.

If the branch does not stay connected to the Vine, then he will be cast into the fire and burned.

And He also taught, which you persist in rejecting, that recipients of eternal life shall never, no, not ever, perish. John 10:28

 

[FreeGrace2]

Doctrine does not from one verse come.

Does the Bible ever contradict itself? Of course not.

So, because of Eph 1:13,14 and John 10:28, eternal security IS a doctrine. Very clearly stated.

So where are your clearly stated verses about loss of salvation?

Right. You don't have any.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
Every born again Christian STAYS saved, regardless of circumstances.

That's your opinion.

No, it's Jesus' teaching, which you have rejected.

What we need is what Jesus taught us in this passage.

You sure do. Instead of rejecting what He teaches.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Another big smoke screen to try and change the subject.

Just answer the question.

This is John 10:28, the scripture you keep claiming.

And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:28

What will cause Jesus to give a person eternal life based on this verse?

Already answered. Please follow the discussion.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FG,
You've been told MANY times on this thread, and elsewhere, that verse 27 tells us to whom Jesus gives eternal life. HIS SHEEP.

And I recommend that you, also, try to keep up and actually follow the discussion.

Of course v.27 is about His sheep. He said so. And I have shown HOW one becomes one of His sheep. Found in John 10:9. I've already quoted the verse, so I suggest you dust off your Bible, cand look it up.

HIS PRESENT SHEEP, not those of yesteryear.

Wow. You're just like JLB, adding words that AREN'T in the verses.

Where did you find "present", or even "yesteryear"?

I think your opinions are getting in the way of accepting doctrine.

It's just that YOU don't care to know the truth..exactly what you accuse others of.

Once again spouting about that which you know nothing about.

I suggest you use a different study tool...really.

Please keep your suggestions to yourself. I'm doing just fine.

It really doesn't matter to me what websites you don't like. I don't care.

But if there's anything you find incorrect in any website I use, please feel free to explain exactly how it is incorrect.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Here's the unpacking...
not much required.

The question was: What happens if we deny Jesus?

The answer is:

2 Timothy 2:12
12If we endure, we will also reign with Him;
If we deny Him, He also will deny us;

And, as @JLB pointed out:

Mathew 10:33 JESUS SAID
33“But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven."

Typical. Ignore the obvious context of 2 Tim 2:12 and hide behind a totally different verse from a totally different context.

But then, that's about all you can do, given you have no substance or evidence for your opinions.

Matt 10:33 is NOT context for 2 Tim 2:12B. The context is found in 12A.

But you know you can't prove your point from that reality. So you make up your own "reality". Slick.

 

[FreeGrace2]

John 10:28 proves nothing.

Wow. Really? Then why did Jesus bother saying it? And why did the beloved apostle bother writing it down?

But it's clear WHY you would say such a thing about any verse that clearly and totally refutes your opinions.

You deny reality as much as the far left does.

Could you post one scripture that plainly states that even if you live a life of sin or abandon God, you will still be saved?

I don't have to. Jesus was clear about the eternity of those He gives eternal life. Even though it seems you even hate the idea.

These are very clear in stating that salvation can be lost:

Hebrews 6:4-6
2 Peter 2:20-22

lol. Really? Neither salvation nor the word "lost" is found in either passage. Which proves my point and destroys your opinion.

But consider this: if there was even just one verse that did clearly state that salvation can be lost, then the ENTIRE Bible would be a sham, and contradictory, and prove God a liar.

So it seems that's your life's mission, huh. To prove God a liar?

And all the scripture about falling away, all the IF's, all the IF WE CONTINUE, all the IF we keep our faith....etc.

And I've explained them ALL, and neither you nor anyone else has even bothered trying to unpack my explanations with reasonable or rational points.

 

[FreeGrace2]

You wish!

No, not really.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Once again, I refer you to 2 Timothy:

2 Timothy 2:13
13If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.

I've been referring to that passage for a long time.

It's because of the indwelling Holy Spirit, God's mark or seal of those having believed, who is a deposit who guarantees our inheritance until the redemption of God's possession.

Those are clearly stated words about eternal security.

And you can't explain it away. All you can do is reject the truth.

 

[JLB777]

If by "sheep", you mean one of Jesus' sheep, He told us that He gives them eternal life and they shall never perish. Why don't you believe that?

Still dodging the truth. LOL!!!


This is why you are considered a false teacher throughout all the forums.

You can't answer a simple question honestly.



The 100 sheep belong to the shepherd. They are his sheep.


“What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7


One sheep becomes lost.


Is the lost sheep that Jesus is teaching us about here in this passage, saved or unsaved?




JLB

 

[JLB777]

If by "sheep", you mean one of Jesus' sheep, He told us that He gives them eternal life and they shall never perish. Why don't you believe that?


Please believe what Jesus taught about recipients of eternal life.

So based on your theology, a sheep who is lost is still saved?



JLB

 

[JLB777]

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
I, otoh, believe what Paul wrote about the sealing ministry of the Holy Spirit. That it is a deposit which guarantees our inheritance for the day of redemption as God's possession, as Eph 1:14 says.

Why did you ignore or reject the aorist tense, translated as a PAST TENSE for believing in Eph 1:14?

And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

What time frame do the red words indicate? Present time or past time?

Yes, the Holy Spirit is promised to those who believe, we all agree on that.


Pay attention to the question.


Is someone who believes for a while, then no longer believes, still a believer?



JLB

 

[JLB777]

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
Every born again Christian STAYS saved, regardless of circumstances.

No, it's Jesus' teaching, which you have rejected.


You sure do. Instead of rejecting what He teaches.

Are you going to answer the question that is based in the teaching of Jesus?


Or, are you going to keep trying to change the subject?


The 100 sheep belong to the shepherd. They are his sheep.


“What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7


One sheep becomes lost.


Is the lost sheep that Jesus is teaching us about here in this passage, saved or unsaved?



JLB




JLB

 

[JLB777]

Already answered. Please follow the discussion.

Stop lying!

You can't even answer this simple question from your own scripture?


And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:28

What will cause Jesus to give a person eternal life based on this verse?


The answer is found in the previous verse.


But you know that don't you, which is why you never post the scripture.


John 10:28 begins with the conjunction word "and".


And ties together His previous statement with the one He is about to make.


Verse 27 and verse 28 are inseparable as verse 28 shows the result of doing verse 27.


This is why you will never post the scripture, because it exposes your false doctrine.



My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:27-28


Those who hear and follow are given eternal life.



JLB

 

[JLB777]

The 100 sheep belong to the shepherd. They are his sheep.


“What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7


One sheep becomes lost.

The reason he becomes lost is he stops hearing and following.


Is the lost sheep that Jesus is teaching us about here in this passage, saved or unsaved?



JLB

 

[Gr8Grace]

You can't take the truth.

I can't take your 'truth'. I can take Gods Truth, I love it as a matter of fact.

The truth scares you and those of your belief and I don't really know why.

Your 'truth' scares me and those who believe like me. Why? Because it is not The Truth.

The Truth tells me I will never ,no not ever perish. Your 'truth' tells me I might perish. And by default tells me I am not one of His sheep.

It's wrong to declare that a person cannot lose their salvation no matter what they do or how they live.

Tell that to the Lord Jesus Christ. What is really sick and twisted, is coming up with every conceivable scenario in the world to murder other brothers and sisters who have His Promise and forever seal of God for their salvation. Loss of salvation in reality is an affront and attack on the very virtue and integrity of our Lord and Savior.

 

[Gr8Grace]

Is a sheep [born again Christian] who wanders away and becomes lost, saved or unsaved, just or unjust, sinner or saint?



JLB

Saved. Justified.Saint.

But what the real answer is, is OUT OF FELLOWSHIP.

If I had your theology, I would have to consider you unsaved and have returned to the goat status.....because you are so far out of fellowship it is like debating the very, very far left.

 

[Gr8Grace]

Don't be so disconcerted!

On whom did the Father place the seal?
He placed the seal on Jesus, not on any man.

Now I'm doubly disconcerted. You don't believe Jesus was a man?
2 John 1:7~~New American Standard Bible
For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist.

Jesus is God,,,do you suppose He would unseal the authority given to Him by Father?

It sure seems that you think it can be unsealed.....because it is the same seal He puts on believers.

Matt 3:16~~New American Standard Bible
After being baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove and lighting on Him,

John 6:27~~New American Standard Bible
"Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal."

2 Cor 1:22~~New American Standard Bible
who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.