Seemingly Anti-OSAS Scriptures

[JLB777]

Gr8Grace said: ↑
When we as believers become lost(out of fellowship with the Lord) and rebound(1 John 1:9)

It is sheer arrogance to claim what anyone else believes, esp when that other person has been crystal clear about what he believes about that verse.

The key to understanding 1 John 1 is "fellowship", mentioned 4 times. It's those who refuse to accept the principle of fellowship (like yourself) who DON'T BELIEVE the verse.


Actively opposing what Jesus teaches is demonic.

Is a sheep [born again Christian] who wanders away and becomes lost, saved or unsaved, just or unjust, sinner or saint?


JLB

 

[JLB777]

Jesus taught that those He gives eternal life shall never, no, not ever, perish in John 10:28.

Why don't you believe what Jesus taught?

Is a sheep [born again Christian] who wanders away and becomes lost, saved or unsaved, just or unjust, sinner or saint?

JLB

 

[JLB777]

Jesus taught that those He gives eternal life shall never, no, not ever, perish in John 10:28.

Why don't you believe what Jesus taught?

Is a sheep [born again Christian] who wanders away and becomes lost, saved or unsaved, just or unjust, sinner or saint?


JLB

 

[Dan the deacon]

that's my point
if they came back, then they never really left

Except that they did leave. The very words "came back" tell you they left. But I guess of you are trying to prove your point truth is not necessary.
I believe once you have been judged saved you will always be saved. But that does not happen in earthly life.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Why do YOU persist in believing this cannot happen?
I've listed enough scripture...
I've listed statements from those who either knew Jesus or someone who knew those that learned from the Apostles.

You, OTOH, prefer to believe Mr. John Calvin.
I prefer to believe the bible.

Ephesians 1:13-14
13In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.

I thought you knew about exegesis...
You don't take ONE verse or even more, that go against the general idea given in scripture. Vague verses do NOT take precedence over clear verses.

What does sealed mean? We can be sealed with the Holy Spirit...
We can be unsealed from the Holy Spirit due to all the verses I've listed above which prove eternal security is NOT correct or biblical.

We are sealed by the Holy Spirit IN HIM..as it states.
If we are NOT IN HIM...we are no longer sealed.

The Holy Spirit is given as a PLEDGE of our inheritance, with a VIEW to our redemption.

And why do you accept the word BELIEVED above as meaning that one is saved due to belief...
When you DO NOT accept that the word BELIEVE in Luke 8:13 AND USED BY JESUS HIMSELF,,,does NOT mean that the person was saved FOR A WHILE?

Could you explain that please?

Many inconsistencies with the OSAS crowd.

Bump.

The Holy Spirit is given as a pledge of our inheritance.
If we do NOT have the Holy Spirit, we no longer have the pledge for our future inheritance.
(I forgot the second sentence before).

Also, could you please explain why BELIEVE in Luke 8:13, as spoken by JESUS, is not acceptable to you because you insist that person was not saved...

BUT, BELIEVE in John 10:26 you DO accept because it suits your purpose of proving that the person IS saved.

John 10:26 Those who do not believe are not of Jesus...
John 10:27-28 Those who DO believe are saved by Jesus...

So then also the ones in Luke 8:13 who DO believe, as per Jesus are also saved by Jesus, even though you don't want to accept this.

 

[OSAS 101]

Except that they did leave. The very words "came back" tell you they left. But I guess of you are trying to prove your point truth is not necessary.
I believe once you have been judged saved you will always be saved. But that does not happen in earthly life.

I think the difference is our perspective at how we look at things.
We all differ so much.
We see it more on forums as people get a chance to express themselves on topics that they may not express themselves at church or elsewhere.
Whether we agree on things or not, we are educating each other and everyone on these forums look more.
I left before. I wouldn't associate myself with Christianity, yet I somehow got offended if someone spoke negatively about Jesus.
It makes me think I never really left, I was just denying myself the blessings God had in store for me.

 

[GodsGrace101]

that's my point
if they came back, then they never really left

That could be. But some don't ever come back.
If we want to say they were never saved to begin with, that goes against Mathew 7. Jesus said we're not to judge people. We can judge their acts because we CAN say if something is against God's commandments. But we cannot judge a person's soul.
I think Christianity contains a little of everything...
Those that believe and believe all their life.
Those that believe and then don't anymore for whatever reason.
Those that leave God for a while, but then come back forever.
Those that never believe.
Those that make fun of Christianity.
Those that persecute Christians and kill them for their faith.

 

[OSAS 101]

Bump.

The Holy Spirit is given as a pledge of our inheritance.
If we do NOT have the Holy Spirit, we no longer have the pledge for our future inheritance.
(I forgot the second sentence before).

Also, could you please explain why BELIEVE in Luke 8:13, as spoken by JESUS, is not acceptable to you because you insist that person was not saved...

BUT, BELIEVE in John 10:26 you DO accept because it suits your purpose of proving that the person IS saved.

John 10:26 Those who do not believe are not of Jesus...
John 10:27-28 Those who DO believe are saved by Jesus...

So then also the ones in Luke 8:13 who DO believe, as per Jesus are also saved by Jesus, even though you don't want to accept this.

The Bible does not say we can be unsealed.
That is your interpretation, your opinion, and I don't believe God holds your opinion or my opinion against us, because he's bigger than that.
In case you didn't know, I'm 68 years hold and have a problem staying concentrated on things.
I tend to skip using verses because I can't remember where they are as I use to.
The fact is in the past, I've given you all the Scripture to back up my point but you refuse to except it.

 

[GodsGrace101]

This is actually delusional. I've shared very clear verses about our security. From the moment of faith in Christ, when we receive the gift of eternal life.

You receive the gift of eternal life at the end of your life.
For now you are just promised the gift of eternal life...
depending on how you live your life.

John 5:28-29 JESUS SAID:
28“Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, 29and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment."


Galatians 5:19-21 Paul says:
19Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, 21envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[GodsGrace101]

OK. Now, what did Jesus say about those He gives eternal life?

They shall never, no, not ever, perish.

Do you believe what Jesus said?

If it were possible for a sealed believer to become unsealed, then Jesus would have included that exclusion in John 10:28.

So, how many exclusions did He include in His verse on the CAUSE and EFFECT of having eternal life?

btw, how come you didn't comment on my color coded explanation of John 10:28? I thought it was clear enough, esp with the colors.

Jesus spoke the way HE spoke,,,He doesn't need any help from you.

To WHOM does Jesus give eternal life?
See
John 10:27 and Jesus will tell you.

As to your color coded comment.
The cause is that we are TO BELIEVE in Christ.
The effect is that we are saved.

No belief
No salvation

 

[GodsGrace101]

The Bible does not say we can be unsealed.
That is your interpretation, your opinion, and I don't believe God holds your opinion or my opinion against us, because he's bigger than that.
In case you didn't know, I'm 68 years hold and have a problem staying concentrated on things.
I tend to skip using verses because I can't remember where they are as I use to.
The fact is in the past, I've given you all the Scripture to back up my point but you refuse to except it.

Oooh. You're still a young guy!
I can help you with the verses on the sealing.
I can explain to you why they don't mean what the OSAS crowd THINK it means.
This is NOT MY idea. Most churches do NOT believe in OSAS.
Be back in a little...

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

This is something most people miss (on purpose?!) .

Notice throughout Scripture how many times it is written "WILL BE SAVED" (like if we endure to the end we WILL BE SAVED.

Other Verses that are not so obvious with "WILL BE", pulled out of context, have allowed some false teachers to deceive others into thinking they are already eternally saved even if they flagrantly and perniciously oppose Yahweh and reject Jesus ! How can this be?!

Maybe tickled ears are more powerful than the truth, when people are unwilling to believe Jesus ?

You receive the gift of eternal life at the end of your life.
For now you are just promised the gift of eternal life...
depending on how you live your life.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Oooh. You're still a young guy!
I can help you with the verses on the sealing.
I can explain to you why they don't mean what the OSAS crowd THINK it means.
This is NOT MY idea. Most churches do NOT believe in OSAS.
Be back in a little...

When you back up Yahweh's point with Yahweh's Word, I LOVE THIS (same when other Ekklesia do also) !

It is so much more truthful and honest and better and in harmony with all Yahweh's Scripture and Plan and Purpose than many are who (trying to be) backing up a personal point (which opposes Scripture) with Scripture, wittingly or unwittingly.

Always let Yahweh's Points be what we believe and hold to all as one in Him, as seen throughout the New Testament for all born again Ekklesia.

 

[OSAS 101]

Oooh. You're still a young guy!
I can help you with the verses on the sealing.
I can explain to you why they don't mean what the OSAS crowd THINK it means.
This is NOT MY idea. Most churches do NOT believe in OSAS.
Be back in a little...

Actually, every church I've been in for 33 1/2 years is OSAS, only not the way you see it.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said:
"I'm going to prove eternal security to you with a color coded rendition of John 10:28. Let's see you unpack it.

Jesus teaches the CAUSE and EFFECT of possessing (having) eternal life:

"I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand."

The red words represent the CAUSE of having (possessing) eternal life.

The blue words represent the EFFECT of having (possessing) eternal life.

I hope you're not color blind.

Now, please prove that Jesus wasn't teaching about the CAUSE and EFFECTof having eternal life in John 10:28."

Is a sheep [born again Christian] who wanders away and becomes lost, saved or unsaved, just or unjust, sinner or saint?
JLB

First, address my color coded points about John 10:28.

Then, answer my question: have you stopped beating your wife yet?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Is a sheep [born again Christian] who wanders away and becomes lost, saved or unsaved, just or unjust, sinner or saint?
JLB

False premise.

Have you stopped beating your wife yet?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Is a sheep [born again Christian] who wanders away and becomes lost, saved or unsaved, just or unjust, sinner or saint?


JLB

have you stopped beating your wife yet?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Is a sheep [born again Christian] who wanders away and becomes lost, saved or unsaved, just or unjust, sinner or saint?

JLB

Have you stopped beating your wife yet?

 

[GodsGrace101]

This is something most people miss (on purpose?!) .

Notice throughout Scripture how many times it is written "WILL BE SAVED" (like if we endure to the end we WILL BE SAVED.

Other Verses that are not so obvious with "WILL BE", pulled out of context, have allowed some false teachers to deceive others into thinking they are already eternally saved even if they flagrantly and perniciously oppose Yahweh and reject Jesus ! How can this be?!

Maybe tickled ears are more powerful than the truth, when people are unwilling to believe Jesus ?

Right.
We can't be eternally saved if we're not at the end of our life yet. We can only know that we are saved right now, if we follow God's conditions; we cannot know the future.

I don't know what the fear is. Maybe persons want to be reassured that they'll be saved no matter what? Maybe they truly believe this to be correct doctrine?

I know that I'm not fearful. I know that if I follow Jesus I will be saved. I also know that if I return to a life of sin, I will lose my salvation since I will no longer be IN Jesus.

If Jesus is our source of life, then we must be IN HIM, to receive that source...otherwise we wither and die.

John 15:1-6 JESUS SAID:
1“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2“Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit. 3“You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4“Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither canyou unless you abide in Me. 5“I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. 6“If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned."

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Yet could it also be observed that tickled ears go where the ear ticklers are ?

Actually, every church I've been in for 33 1/2 years is OSAS, only not the way you see it.