Seemingly Anti-OSAS Scriptures

[FreeGrace2]

I have read it in the Greek. It does not say what your chosen version says. Neither does the KJV.

Why don't you explain the difference then? Just throwing out your opinion without any backup does not help any discussion.

Tell us what the Greek actually says. Not that we don't have lexicons too.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said:
"FreeGrace2 said: ↑
It was from Scripture. Please answer my questions about what justification, sanctificataion and glorification are about, if not the 3 tenses of salvation."

Could you first give me book, chapter and verses of where this is in scripture

Do you really not believe that justification, sanctification and glorification are NOT in Scripture? Seriously??

Your question only demonstrates your own inadequacy with Scripture.

 

[FreeGrace2]

In that version it does say that. That is not what the Greek version says.

There is no 'Greek version'. There is the Greek ORIGINAL text.

The KJV also does not translate it in that manner. So did you pick that version because of that translation or is it the one you use?

Gr8grace was speaking from the Greek. How could you miss that? Does English have a "periphrastic perfect" tense?

 

[FreeGrace2]

I know eternal life is in obeying the truth.

You don't know what the Bible says about a lot of things.

This scripture is for you Freegrace, and all who teach the heresy of OSAS.

Tell that to Jesus, who clearly taught eternal security in John 10:28 but you have refused to believe.

btw, there is a better term than OSAS, given John 10:28.

OARSNEP It can even be pronounced easily, unlike OSAS.

Once A Recipient, Shall NEver Perish

But to be even more clear, we can add the letters to "of eternal life" to look like this:

OAROELSNEP

But it's easier to pronounce OARSNEP than OAROELSNEP.

He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4

Because of your refusal to believe the truth, this verse directly applies to you.

If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 1 John 1:6

Those who refuse to believe the truth do not practice the truth.

btw, I notice that you are using the color red in your post.

Because you have consistently ignored my color coded explanation of the FACT that John 10:28 teaches the CAUSE and EFFECT of having eternal life, I thought you might be color blind, and was going to ask you if you can recognize any colors other than black and white.

So, using red demonstrates that you CAN see red. So why do you consistently ignore my color coded explanation?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Scripture also says names can be blotted out of that book.

Actually, it doesn't. Where it occurs is a literary technique called a litotes. You can look it up.

There are NO verses that tell us that anyone's name HAS BEEN, or WILL BE blotted out.

 

[FreeGrace2]

And will continue to pertain to you throughout your life.

The following is a lifelong commitment, with the end result being given eternal life.


JLB

Why do you consistently reject Scripture?

John 5:24, 6:47 and 1 John 5:13 tell us plainly that those who believe POSSESS eternal life.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Scripture also says names can be blotted out of that book.

I thought that at first also but actually it doesn’t. Why would God blot out names if He has foreseen their outcome?

 

[JLB777]

Interesting how you cut 1 John 5:13 out.

You left out verse 12.


For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.
1 John 5:3


And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life,
1 John 5:11-13


Here is how we know we have Christ.

Abiding in the doctrine of Christ.


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9


Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 1 John 2:3-5


There is no getting around obeying His commandments.

Those who obey His commandments have eternal life.


JLB

 

[JLB777]

Why do you consistently reject Scripture?

John 5:24, 6:47 and 1 John 5:13 tell us plainly that those who believe POSSESS eternal life.

Why do you pick out of context the scriptures you like.

Do you think this will make the truth somehow go away?

Read a little further in John 5

• all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life,

Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
John 5:28-29


Eternal life will be given on the day of judgment to those who do good, not to those who disobey the truth.



eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; Romans 2:7



JLB

 

[BNR32FAN]

Why do you pick out of context the scriptures you like.

Do you think this will make the truth somehow go away?

Read a little further in John 5

• all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life,

Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
John 5:28-29


Eternal life will be given on the day of judgment to those who do good, not to those who disobey the truth.



eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; Romans 2:7



JLB

Hi JLB will you please read my post in #465? https://www.christianforums.com/threads/seemingly-anti-osas-scriptures.8067941/page-24#post-73040321

 

[BNR32FAN]

I could inundate you with scriptures that say we have eternal life right now. That we are a new creation(which you don't seem to understand that that has NOTHING to do with our sin nature.) the new creation is what is saved, HAS eternal life and will never perish.

But just prove this one verse wrong. Ephesians 2:8.

"have been saved" is a periphrastic perfect. 2 verbs, formulated in a Greek phrase that gives all the information we need to know about 'have been saved' in a very forceful and emphatic way.

In the past, you were saved, those results are ongoing in the present, and will emphatically continue on forever!! It is a word construct in the Greek that has no loopholes. And is made to get our attention.

So if your right. The periphrastic perfect could not be used in this verse. Prove to me that it is not the periphrastic perfect in Ephesians 2:8.......and one more thing, the exact phrase and construct is used in Eph 2:4.

Hi Gr8Grace will you please read my post in #465? https://www.christianforums.com/threads/seemingly-anti-osas-scriptures.8067941/page-24#post-73040321

 

[JLB777]

In a sense salvation is eternally secure. Because the names of those who are saved are written in the book of life before creation. God has already foreseen who will be victorious and written them in the book of life. Since God has foreseen it the book is complete.

He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels. Revelation 3:5


The condition for not being blotted out of the book of life is to overcome.

The condition for receiving eternal life, the crown of life, is to overcome.


Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life. Revelation 2:10




JLB

 

[BNR32FAN]

He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels. Revelation 3:5


The condition for not being blotted out of the book of life is to overcome.

The condition for receiving eternal life, the crown of life, is to overcome.


Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life. Revelation 2:10




JLB

But the names were written in the book of life before creation. The only way that is possible is if God had foreseen the choices we will make in our life from beginning to end. It wouldn’t make sense that He wrote people’s names in the book of life who would fall away. Surely God wouldn’t only see part of our destiny. He would see the entire outcome. God has foreseen our future but we still have the free will to decide our fate. So we are today unfolding what God has already foreseen. The choices we make today, tomorrow, until the end of our life here are shaping what God has foreseen. For example I have the freedom to choose to smash my iPhone right now or I can choose not to. Whatever choice I decide to make is what God has already foreseen before creation. This would explain predestination which the Greek work also means preordained. Meaning we were preselected according to the choices we made that God had foreseen. The book of life is foreseen which means it is complete and cannot be altered. If it complete and cannot be altered then those who are written in the book of life will never be blotted out and can never lose salvation. But it doesn’t mean that the choices we make do not determine our fate. What are your thoughts?

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said:
"Why do you consistently reject Scripture?

John 5:24, 6:47 and 1 John 5:13 tell us plainly that those who believe POSSESS eternal life."

Why do you pick out of context the scriptures you like.

Why do you consistently ignore my questions? But nothing new there.

Also, if you think I have taken any verse out of context, it's YOUR responsibility to provide an explanation of exactly how I have. So far, all you've done is throw out your opinions, without any evidence at all.

Do you think this will make the truth somehow go away?

I certainly do not want truth to go away. What amazes me is that one who claims to be a follower of Christ doesn't believe what He says, and, in fact, vigorously opposes what He says, even going to the extreme of calling what He teaches "heresy".

Read a little further in John 5

• all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life,
• Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

John 5:28-29

Why don't back up 4 verses. It is v.24 that teaches WHEN one possesses eternal life, and is the context for v.28,29.

John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me HAS eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

Now, go ahead and just try to prove that whoever hears and believes doesn't HAVE eternal life.

John 5:24, exactly like John 10:28, teaches OARSNEP.

Eternal life will be given on the day of judgment to those who do good, not to those who disobey the truth.

OK, we already know that you've totally rejected Jesus' words in John 5:24.

Those who believe possess eternal life. John 6:47 and 1 John 5:12,13

 

[JLB777]

But the names were written in the book of life before creation. The only way that is possible is if God had foreseen the choices we will make in our life from beginning to end. It wouldn’t make sense that He wrote people’s names in the book of life who would fall away. Surely God wouldn’t only see part of our destiny. He would see the entire outcome. God has foreseen our future but we still have the free will to decide our fate. So we are today unfolding what God has already foreseen. The choices we make today, tomorrow, until the end of our life here are shaping what God has foreseen. For example I have the freedom to choose to smash my iPhone right now or I can choose not to. Whatever choice I decide to make is what God has already foreseen before creation. This would explain predestination which the Greek work also means preordained. Meaning we were preselected according to the choices we made that God had foreseen. The book of life is foreseen which means it is complete and cannot be altered. If it complete and cannot be altered then those who are written in the book of life will never be blotted out and can never lose salvation. But it doesn’t mean that the choices we make do not determine our fate. What are your thoughts?

You just allowed human reasoning to exalt itself against the knowledge of God.

He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels. Revelation 3:5


The condition for not being blotted out of the book of life is to overcome.

The condition for receiving eternal life, the crown of life, is to overcome.


Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life. Revelation 2:10




JLB

 

[BNR32FAN]

You just allowed human reasoning to exalt itself against the knowledge of God.

He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels. Revelation 3:5


The condition for not being blotted out of the book of life is to overcome.

The condition for receiving eternal life, the crown of life, is to overcome.


Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life. Revelation 2:10




JLB

Ok so whose names are written in the book of life before creation?

 

[JLB777]

I said:
"Why do you consistently reject Scripture?

John 5:24, 6:47 and 1 John 5:13 tell us plainly that those who believe POSSESS eternal life."

Why do you consistently ignore my questions? But nothing new there.

Also, if you think I have taken any verse out of context, it's YOUR responsibility to provide an explanation of exactly how I have. So far, all you've done is throw out your opinions, without any evidence at all.


I certainly do not want truth to go away. What amazes me is that one who claims to be a follower of Christ doesn't believe what He says, and, in fact, vigorously opposes what He says, even going to the extreme of calling what He teaches "heresy".


Why don't back up 4 verses. It is v.24 that teaches WHEN one possesses eternal life, and is the context for v.28,29.

John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me HAS eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

Now, go ahead and just try to prove that whoever hears and believes doesn't HAVE eternal life.

John 5:24, exactly like John 10:28, teaches OARSNEP.


OK, we already know that you've totally rejected Jesus' words in John 5:24.

Those who believe possess eternal life. John 6:47 and 1 John 5:12,13

It’s real simple.

Just go to the scriptures that portray the Day of Judgement when we all will stand before Him to be judged according to our deeds.

This is very plain and will occur for all.

Your “doctrinal theory” disregards this Day and all the scriptures that pertain to and speak about this Day.

All relevant and true doctrine, the doctrine of Christ, must reconcile everything together and line up with the Day of Judgement, when we will be resurrected and stand before the throne of our King, Jesus Christ.

On that Day some will be given eternal life and some will be given eternal condemnation.

Trying to quote other scriptures in an attempt to somehow make the truth “go away” will do no good.

You are only deceiving yourself and those who choose to listen to you.


Here are a few.

• God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For there is no partiality with God. Romans 2:5-10


JLB

 

[JLB777]

• And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

When do the righteous enter into eternal life?

On the Day of Judgement.

When we have been Judged.


“When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’
Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
Matthew 25:31-46


JLB

 

[BNR32FAN]

It’s real simple.

Just go to the scriptures that portray the Day of Judgement when we all will stand before Him to be judged according to our deeds.

This is very plain and will occur for all.

Your “doctrinal theory” disregards this Day and all the scriptures that pertain to and speak about this Day.

All relevant and true doctrine, the doctrine of Christ, must reconcile everything together and line up with the Day of Judgement, when we will be resurrected and stand before the throne of our King, Jesus Christ.

On that Day some will be given eternal life and some will be given eternal condemnation.

Trying to quote other scriptures in an attempt to somehow make the truth “go away” will do no good.

You are only deceiving yourself and those who choose to listen to you.


Here are a few.

• God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For there is no partiality with God. Romans 2:5-10


JLB

“God sent his Son into the world not to judge the world, but to save the world through him. “There is no judgment against anyone who believes in him. But anyone who does not believe in him has already been judged for not believing in God’s one and only Son. And the judgment is based on this fact: God’s light came into the world, but people loved the darkness more than the light, for their actions were evil. All who do evil hate the light and refuse to go near it for fear their sins will be exposed. But those who do what is right come to the light so others can see that they are doing what God wants. ””
‭‭John‬ ‭3:17-21

Those who do not believe have already been judged hence not written in the book of life.

 

[JLB777]

Ok so whose names are written in the book of life before creation?

I don’t know specifically all whose names are written in the book of Life, but I can tell you this, the twelve apostles were all destined to reign and rule with Christ in the age to come, so you can bet their names were in there.

So Jesus said to them, “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Matthew 19:28


Jesus spoke these words to His twelve disciples. Judas included.



JLB