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Seemingly Anti-OSAS Scriptures

FreeGrace2

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I don't know that we should assume any such thing. He won't answer, so it seems maybe he's hiding something.

I answered his question 3 times, but that seems not to satisfy him.

It's getting rather clear to me that his real goal is to prove that Jesus Christ LIED when He said those He gives eternal life shall never perish.

And that's a whole lot more perverse than just beating his wife.
 
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FreeGrace2

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Why do you keep assuming that "anyone" here includes believers?

I sure don't assume that you have stopped beating your wife. I'm just waiting for an answer to my question.

Now, do you remember that in one post you said "I don't beat my wife". OK. That shows that my question about whether you've stopped beating your wife was INVALID. There was a FALSE PREMISE.

And, I explained (only 3 times) that by the time the mark of the beast is being put on people, there will be no unfaithful believers around to take the mark.

So, how is my answer insufficient to your curious mind, but your answer seemed to be sufficient to you?

Could you at least explain that?

Since you obviously want to continue to assume that there will be believers who will take the mark of the beast (and thereby prove that Jesus Christ LIED in John 10:28), while shall I not continue to assume that you still beat your wife?

Could you at least explain that?
 
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JLB777

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JLB777 said:
Answer: I don't beat my wife.

Maybe the answer is really "no", which is why he won't answer the question.


I see you are still avoiding the question.


I guess you don't really believe your own doctrine.



Now concerning your doctrine of OSAS,




If a born again Christian takes the mark of the beast and worships him, are they still saved?

Yes?
or
No?



JLB
 
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FreeGrace2

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I see you are still avoiding the question.
You are just amazing.

I guess you don't really believe your own doctrine.
I guess you are having a very difficult time trying to decipher anything that is posted

Now concerning your doctrine of OSAS,

If a born again Christian takes the mark of the beast and worships him, are they still saved?

Yes?
or
No?
Again, my answer to your bogus question is going to be the same as your answer to my bogus question.

While you said, "I do not beat my wife", which denies my assumption that you do, my answer to your bogus question is, "there will be no unfaithful believers by the time the mark of the beast is given", which denies your assumption that there will be any believers who will take the mark of the beast.

But I'm going to guess that you will not understand any of this, nor the significance of it.

I've answered EXACTLY as you did, but you just ignore reality.
 
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Gr8Grace

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Matt 13:15~~New International Version
For this people's heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.'

Ezekiel 12:2~~New American Standard Bible
"Son of man, you live in the midst of the rebellious house, who have eyes to see but do not see, ears to hear but do not hear; for they are a rebellious house.


Jeremiah 5:21~~New American Standard Bible
'Now hear this, O foolish and senseless people, Who have eyes but do not see; Who have ears but do not hear.

Isaiah 6:10~~New American Standard Bible
"Render the hearts of this people insensitive, Their ears dull, And their eyes dim, Otherwise they might see with their eyes, Hear with their ears, Understand with their hearts, And return and be healed."

2 Tim 4:3New American Standard Bible
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires,
 
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bcbsr

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If a born again Christian takes the mark of the beast and worships him, are they still saved?

That kind of thing simply doesn't happen. Salvation by works Christians typically bring up irrelevant scenarios like that. Or propose "What if those born of God continue to live in sin?" It just doesn't happen. The Bible says so.

1John 3:9 "No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God."

What about alleged "Christians" who fall away. This is how the apostle John analyzes that scenario:

1John 2:19
They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us.
For if they had belonged to us,
(ONCE SAVED)
they would have remained with us; (ALWAYS SAVED)
but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.
 
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bcbsr

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The "other half" says, "My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.", which is not a condition for salvation but a description of the saved. Typical of salvation by works Christians to add "in order to be saved" to verses which are simply describing a saved person.

And ironic bringing up Romans 2:7 (typical verse brought up by salvation by works Christians). For you do it out of context. If you actually read Rom 2:7 in context you would realize that Paul was talking about justification by law at that point. He speaks of performance based justification all the way up to the middle of chapter 3 where he transitions to the gospel of Grace:

"Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin. But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus." Rom 3:20-24
 
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FreeGrace2

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These really do describe one side of this debate, huh. Thanks.
 
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BNR32FAN

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I think for the people who are walking in the Spirit it’s not really important to know if eternal security is true or not. I think it is more important that we realize this than being divided Christians.
 
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WordSword

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I think for the people who are walking in the Spirit it’s not really important to know if eternal security is true or not. I think it is more important that we realize this than being divided Christians.
Hi and thanks for your reply! I believe you make the most important issue, which is how we relate to one another! Everything in Christianity purposes this above all things, because it's the Lord's overall command (John 15:12).

How we relate to one another, "especially unto them who are of the household of faith"(Gal 6:10), is how we are practically relating to the Lord (1 John 4:20), regardless of how desirous we are to live by it!

One's understanding and belief concerning the permanency of faith and salvation cannot affect the receiving of salvation, but like all nonessential doctrine is does affect our spiritual growth in our faith.

God bless!
 
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BNR32FAN

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Thank you for your kind reply my friend. I was thinking about what you said and I can’t seem to think of any situations that could arise from not taking a position on eternal security. Perhaps you can give some examples?
 
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WordSword

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Thank you for your kind reply my friend. I was thinking about what you said and I can’t seem to think of any situations that could arise from not taking a position on eternal security. Perhaps you can give some examples?
Do you mean reasons why not to take the position of eternal security?
 
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BNR32FAN

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Do you mean reasons why not to take the position of eternal security?

No I mean why is it important to our spiritual growth that we take a position on eternal security? Personally I prefer to remain neutral although in the past I have been more inclined to reject eternal security. Lately I’ve taken the position that it’s not worth debating because ultimately if a person is walking in the Spirit it is irrelevant if they believe in eternal security or not. I also believe the same about faith & works, purgatory and a few other debates. If we believe in Jesus and we walk in the Spirit everything else will just take care of itself.
 
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FreeGrace2

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From your last sentence, it appears your view is that how one lives determines their security. Is that correct?
 
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JLB777

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You would have to completely ignore what Jesus taught about the subject to come to that conclusion.


Would you care to discuss the scriptures that pertain to this subject about departing from Christ during persecution and tribulation?


Do you know this person has already stated in an open forum that a born again Christian who takes the mark of the beast is still saved?


He has since been removed from that site which is why he is reluctant to make the same mistake.



JLB
 
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bcbsr

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Falling Away? John covers that in 1John 2:19
They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us.
For if they had belonged to us,
(ONCE SAVED)
they would have remained with us; (ALWAYS SAVED)
but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

I have ignored nothing. You just haven't listened.

But if you chose to ignore what John says, then realize he also says,
"We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us;
but whoever is not from God does not listen to us."
1John 4:6
 
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WordSword

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No I mean why is it important to our spiritual growth that we take a position on eternal security?
I've come to the understanding that those who still lack the understanding of the permanency of faith and salvation depend more on self-works as a basis to retain salvation, instead of depending on God to "complete it (work of salvation) until the day of Jesus Christ" (Phil 1:6). This is depending on Him to "fulfill all the good pleasure of His goodness and the work of faith with power" (2 Thes 1:11).
 
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BNR32FAN

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““I am the true grapevine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch of mine that doesn’t produce fruit, and he prunes the branches that do bear fruit so they will produce even more. You have already been pruned and purified by the message I have given you. Remain in me, and I will remain in you. For a branch cannot produce fruit if it is severed from the vine, and you cannot be fruitful unless you remain in me. “Yes, I am the vine; you are the branches. Those who remain in me, and I in them, will produce much fruit. For apart from me you can do nothing. Anyone who does not remain in me is thrown away like a useless branch and withers. Such branches are gathered into a pile to be burned. But if you remain in me and my words remain in you, you may ask for anything you want, and it will be granted! When you produce much fruit, you are my true disciples. This brings great glory to my Father. “I have loved you even as the Father has loved me. Remain in my love. When you obey my commandments, you remain in my love, just as I obey my Father’s commandments and remain in his love.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:1-10‬
 
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WordSword

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He cuts off every branch of mine that doesn’t produce fruit ‬
I suppose it determines what we think Scripture means by "in Me." I've come to think it means all who profess to be in Him, which does not intend that all who profess Christ are in Christ. If they're not truly connected to the Vine they will not be a true part of Him, which are false professors, otherwise they would produce if they are connected to the Vine.

Presently I know of no Bible commentator that relate "in Me" to denote true unity with the Lord Jesus but rather describes that those who are unfruitful have not been connected with the Vine.
 
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OSAS 101

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I see you are still avoiding the question.


I guess you don't really believe your own doctrine.



Now concerning your doctrine of OSAS,




If a born again Christian takes the mark of the beast and worships him, are they still saved?

Yes?
or
No?



JLB
Now that's trying to predict the future
You should not tempt him.
that's a no no.
Shame on you.
 
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