Seeker Friendly Progressive Churches

[Dorothy Mae]

I'm not sure if you're referring to my earlier post, where I said that we should always pray that the Holy Spirit would give us the true meaning of the scriptures when we study them.

The Holy Spirit has nothing to say to us, He only opens our understanding so we can rightly interprit the Holy Scriptures. God does not speak to us anymore, He finished speaking to us through the Apostle John when he wrote the book of revelation.

We are trying to learn the same old things that the first Christians had to learn 2000 years ago, there's nothing new in the Bible. It's exactly the same message as it was 2000 years ago, mankind is still exactly the same as he was back then. There hasn't been any new revelation, since John wrote the book of revelation.

So we are just trying to understand the same old message, the first Christians had to learn. It's still the same old Holy Spirit helping us to understand the same old message.

God deliberately had His prophets write the Bible in such a way that it can only be truly interpreted by those who are led by the Holy Spirit. Those who use human reasoning and human wisdom and human intelligence will never truly understand it. That's why we have so many denominations, all claiming to possess the truth.

The Holy Spirit is the same yesterday, today and forever and is still speaking to those who want to hear Him speak same as he spoke to Moses and Abraham and Jesus. The difference is the men who want to hear, don't want to hear, have decided that there is nothing to hear or don't know what they are missing so they do not care. The idea that John put down his pen and God stopped speaking forever is rather silly if you think about it. Jesus said his sheep knew his voice. His voice. Sounds like speaking to me.

When God speaks to a man, it is anything but the same old message when you hear his voice. Not that he says anything new, but when God speaks, there is power that goes forth and the hearer knows it.

The problem with denominations is that too many think God stopped talking to men and so never ask Him his view of theology. They never ask God what is the truth about matters concerning Himself. So if they do not ask questions, they do not get answers. Since they do not get answers from God, they make up stuff.

To make it clear, God is still speaking the same as He always was and hearing his voice is really an awesome experience. One time HIs answer was so loud I kept asking the same question of guidance just cause I liked hearing his answer. He did not seem to mind at all. Was very sweet.

By the way, living a life hearing the voice of God is radical. I mean RADICAL. Does not get more radical and yet holy.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I suspect part of the problem is a lot of people want Jesus as their Savior, but not as their Lord.

There are not a few christians to think Lordship is a false doctrine and there is only salvation and maybe the optional extra of sanctification, a totally separate and voluntary course. If you just want Heaven, they think that is just fine and once you got it, you needn't worry about Him being Lord or if you do, that is WORKS theology and odious. Of course that is not what the would admit but just read their anger and Lordship or obey God theology and that is what it is for them. They just need to "call upon the name of the Lord" that is, say "lord lord" and they are going to Heaven. Anything else is works and that is bad as far as they are concerned. So those are the Christains we get, the kind to think sanctification and salvation are separate matters, the latter being independent of the former.

 

[A_Thinker]

Yes ... many Protestant churches have gone to the opposite extreme. In an effort to welcome newcomers, you almost get the impression that Jesus is a buddy who drinks a mocha coffee with you.

Revelation 3:20

Behold ... I am standing and knocking at your door. If you hear my voice and open the door, I will come in to be with you, and to sup with you, and you with Me.

 

[SkyWriting]

A friend of mine challenged me to consider joining him on a mission to find a Church where they preach the Bible faithfully.

We were both attending a Catholic Church, before we decided that the teaching was not Biblical in many ways. I won't go into all the errors we found, as it would take too long to list them and to add all the supporting scriptures.

I wanted to discuss the modern Churches and the direction in which they are heading. We visited many churches and usually came home disappointed with the preaching and our ears ringing from the loud armature Church rock bands.

We found most of them were trying to give the congregation what they wanted, such as good music, expensive coffee machines, comfortable seats and very friendly people.

While they were very friendly and provided entertainment, they failed to preach the whole Gospel. The vast majority only preached the parts of Gospel which speak of Gods love, mercy and prosperity. They never mentioned sin or judgement.

We asked some of the pastors why they didn't preach the whole counsel of God and we got a lot of interesting responses, ranging from. "That old fashioned fire and brimstone preaching wouldn't go down well in this town", to "we feed them milk at first and then slowly introduce meat", but the truth is they always stick with milk.

I know the world has changed, we have a lot of gay people in the Churches and many new age types, who like to add human wisdom and science to the Bible and create a kind of man made gospel that everyone can accept and relate to.

Thank the Lord, we eventually found a faithful Bible based Church where the whole counsel of God is preached.

The pastor mentioned in his sermon on Sunday, that we should prepare for persecution and soon he won't be allowed to legally preach about Biblical things like the sin of Sodomy and abortion.
The faithful Churches will be forced to stop preaching about sin, because it offends people. The liberals will impose their world view on Churches and stop them from preaching the whole counsel of God.
The future looks bleak for the Church, we might have to go underground soon.

You have a good ability to tell stories.
I recommend you visit lots of churches
till you find one that suits you.

 

[Albion]

I'm not sure if you're referring to my earlier post, where I said that we should always pray that the Holy Spirit would give us the true meaning of the scriptures when we study them.

Not really. I read it of course, but similar sentiments have been posted on CF many times, and I was drawing from all of them..

God deliberately had His prophets write the Bible in such a way that it can only be truly interpreted by those who are led by the Holy Spirit. Those who use human reasoning and human wisdom and human intelligence will never truly understand it. That's why we have so many denominations, all claiming to possess the truth.

I agree in part. As I said before, there is a fine line with this issue between believing that the HS assists our understanding and believing that the HS is giving out something close to private revelation such that some people read into the Bible ideas that no orthodox Bible scholar or theologian would accept as true.

I also do not automatically dismiss the learning of such people by calling their studies into the original languages, church history, and etc mere “manmade theories “ or “human wisdom “ or something like that, although many people say this.

 

[2Timothy2:15]

We asked some of the pastors why they didn't preach the whole counsel of God and we got a lot of interesting responses, ranging from. "That old fashioned fire and brimstone preaching wouldn't go down well in this town", to "we feed them milk at first and then slowly introduce meat", but the truth is they always stick with milk.

They feed them milk then continue to feed milk because the pastor does not eat meat himself as they are mostly hirelings that are totally apostate with their false prosperity hyper grace phony love gospel.

 

[Dan1988]

The Holy Spirit is the same yesterday, today and forever and is still speaking to those who want to hear Him speak same as he spoke to Moses and Abraham and Jesus. The difference is the men who want to hear, don't want to hear, have decided that there is nothing to hear or don't know what they are missing so they do not care. The idea that John put down his pen and God stopped speaking forever is rather silly if you think about it. Jesus said his sheep knew his voice. His voice. Sounds like speaking to me.

When God speaks to a man, it is anything but the same old message when you hear his voice. Not that he says anything new, but when God speaks, there is power that goes forth and the hearer knows it.

The problem with denominations is that too many think God stopped talking to men and so never ask Him his view of theology. They never ask God what is the truth about matters concerning Himself. So if they do not ask questions, they do not get answers. Since they do not get answers from God, they make up stuff.

To make it clear, God is still speaking the same as He always was and hearing his voice is really an awesome experience. One time HIs answer was so loud I kept asking the same question of guidance just cause I liked hearing his answer. He did not seem to mind at all. Was very sweet.

By the way, living a life hearing the voice of God is radical. I mean RADICAL. Does not get more radical and yet holy.

Sorry I can't believe that God speaks to anyone in our time. Our pastor actually told us not to believe anyone who claims that God spoke to them.

He teaches us that God has already told us everything He wanted to in His Word, the Holy Bible. We have the complete cannon of scripture, to refer to for anything we want to know about God and His will for us.

We can pray to God through our savior, but that's as close we can get to Him.

Please share any scriptures which you may have to support your views

 

[2Timothy2:15]

Sorry I can't believe that God speaks to anyone in our time. Our pastor actually told us not to believe anyone who claims that God spoke to them.

He teaches us that God has already told us everything He wanted to in His Word, the Holy Bible. We have the complete cannon of scripture, to refer to for anything we want to know about God and His will for us.

We can pray to God through our savior, but that's as close we can get to Him.

Please share any scriptures which you may have to support your views

Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

 

[discipler7]

He teaches us that God has already told us everything He wanted to in His Word, the Holy Bible. We have the complete cannon of scripture, to refer to for anything we want to know about God and His will for us.

Yes, agree.

JOHN.20:28-29 = 28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

29 Jesus said to him, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
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LUKE.16:27-31 = 27 “Then he said, ‘I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house, 28 for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.’ 29 Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.’ 30 And he said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ 31 But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’ ”
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HEBREWS.2:1-4 = 1 Therefore we must give the more earnest heed to the things we have heard, lest we drift away. 2 For if the word spoken through angels proved steadfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just reward, 3 how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed to us by those who heard Him, 4 God also bearing witness both with signs and wonders, with various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit, according to His own will?
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1CORINTHIANS.13:8-10 = 8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.
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JOHN.1:1&14 = 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. & 14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
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JOHN.6:63 = 63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.
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2COR.3:17 = 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
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HEBREWS.4:12-13 = 12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.
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2TIMOTHY.3:16-17 = 16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
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MATTHEW.7:21-25 = I Never Knew You
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Build on the Rock
24 “Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock: 25 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock.
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2THESSALONIANS.2:8-12 = 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

 

[Dan1988]

Yes, agree.

JOHN.20:28-29 = 28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

29 Jesus said to him, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
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.
.
LUKE.16:27-31 = 27 “Then he said, ‘I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house, 28 for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.’ 29 Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.’ 30 And he said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ 31 But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’ ”
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.
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HEBREWS.2:1-4 = 1 Therefore we must give the more earnest heed to the things we have heard, lest we drift away. 2 For if the word spoken through angels proved steadfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just reward, 3 how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed to us by those who heard Him, 4 God also bearing witness both with signs and wonders, with various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit, according to His own will?
.
.
.
1CORINTHIANS.13:8-10 = 8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.
.
.
.
JOHN.1:1&14 = 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. & 14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
.
.
JOHN.6:63 = 63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.
.
.
2COR.3:17 = 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
.
.
HEBREWS.4:12-13 = 12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.
.
.
2TIMOTHY.3:16-17 = 16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
.
.
.
MATTHEW.7:21-25 = I Never Knew You
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Build on the Rock
24 “Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock: 25 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock.
.
.
.
2THESSALONIANS.2:8-12 = 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Thank you for taking the time to bring these most appropriate scriptures to the discussion. They are very helpful and encouraging, they demonstrate how God has blessed us by equipping us with everything we need to live a fruitful and blessed life.

God's Word is absolutely amazing, it answers every question we may have and it gives us the best advice on how to deal with any of life's problems and challenges.

We are more blessed than any previous generations, we have access to the completed cannon of scripture and the full counsel of God. Previous generations didn't have access to all the information we have, so we are without excuse.

 

[Dan1988]

Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

Yes, it's great to know that God promised to pour out His Spirit in the last days. That's not to say that we will receive new revelation or any additions to the completed cannon of scripture.
I think God saw it necessary to pour out His Spirit, because He knew that the powers of darkness would gather their forces against Gods people for a final attack before they are cast into the lake of fire.

 

[2Timothy2:15]

Yes, it's great to know that God promised to pour out His Spirit in the last days. That's not to say that we will receive new revelation or any additions to the completed cannon of scripture.
I think God saw it necessary to pour out His Spirit, because He knew that the powers of darkness would gather their forces against Gods people for a final attack before they are cast into the lake of fire.

I never said it was about "new revelations". The Lord does still speak to his servants though just as that says through prophecy, visions, dreams and so on.

The thing is the enemy has sent so many false prophets out only the discerning can tell the difference and genuine prophets are far a few between. Most are profits today, not prophets.

 

[Dan1988]

I never said it was about "new revelations". The Lord does still speak to his servants though just as that says through prophecy, visions, dreams and so on.

The thing is the enemy has sent so many false prophets out only the discerning can tell the difference and genuine prophets are far a few between. Most are profits today, not prophets.

That's OK, I just wanted to make sure you didn't mean that God literally speaks to people as the "profits" claim He does to.

God does put things on our heart, and He answers our prayers so that's a form of speaking to us. Our pastor said to watch out for those people who claim that God literally talks to them.

 

[W2L]

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him. 24 He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, but the Father’s who sent Me.

John 10:27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29 [a]My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”

 

[Dan1988]

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him. 24 He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, but the Father’s who sent Me.

John 10:27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29 [a]My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”

Sounds like you believe in predestination and election, the free choice mob don't like dealing with these scriptures. They only like John 3:16, they like the word "world" because it means everyone will eventually be saved and that's what a loving God is supposed to do.

They don't like a God who doesn't save every single sinner, because it means they have to repent and give their lives to Christ and that's very hard for someone who loves their sins to do.

 

[ubicaritas]

You make it sound like your repentance is what gets you saved, boasting of how hard it is to repent and to stop loving sin, instead of justification by faith alone.

 

[Dan1988]

You make it sound like your repentance is what gets you saved, boasting of how hard it is to repent and to stop loving sin, instead of justification by faith alone.

No I don't believe repentance saves you. I hated God before He regenerated me, I loved sin and I had no intention of ever repenting and I wasn't seeking the Lord. He sought me out and drew me to Himself and he will finish the work of salvation which he started.

Sorry I thought you were a Catholic, I just realized you aren't. I don't know much about the Lutheran Church so I can't comment on it.

 

[ubicaritas]

No I don't believe repentance saves you. I hated God before He regenerated me, I loved sin and I had no intention of ever repenting and I wasn't seeking the Lord. He sought me out and drew me to Himself and he will finish the work of salvation which he started.

Sorry I thought you were a Catholic, I just realized you aren't. I don't know much about the Lutheran Church so I can't comment on it.

We are somewhere in between Catholics and the Reformed, theologically and in terms of how we do church.

The main difference is that our main theological locus is on justification by faith alone rather than the glorification of God. We believe God has glorified himself in the death of Jesus Christ for sinners, therefore, we do not consider the glorification of God through our works to be a significant theological motif in our faith. The end of man is not the glorification of God, but service to our neighbor.

 

[A_Thinker]

We are somewhere in between Catholics and the Reformed, theologically and in terms of how we do church.

The main difference is that our main theological locus is on justification by faith alone rather than the glorification of God. We believe God has glorified himself in the death of Jesus Christ for sinners, therefore, we do not consider the glorification of God through our works to be a significant theological motif in our faith. The end of man is not the glorification of God, but service to our neighbor.

Yes ... God glorifies Himself. How can we significantly add to that ?

We are to LOVE God ... for Who He is ... and what He has already done ... to glorify Himself ...

 

[Dan1988]

We are somewhere in between Catholics and the Reformed, theologically and in terms of how we do church.

The main difference is that our main theological locus is on justification by faith alone rather than the glorification of God. We believe God has glorified himself in the death of Jesus Christ for sinners, therefore, we do not consider the glorification of God through our works to be a significant theological motif in our faith. The end of man is not the glorification of God, but service to our neighbor.

I'm a member of a reformed Baptist Church, we believe that the purpose of life is to glorify God and enjoy Him.
Your Church is very similar, because to serve your neighbor is glorifying God. Everything we do should bring glory to God, we believe it's all about God and there's nothing in man worth celebrating or glorifying.

We believe in Calvin's 5 points "TULIP" and we hold to the 1689 Baptist confession of Faith