Second coming not on time?

Brian Mcnamee · Jan 17, 2019

Hi to understand the verses you posted you have to establish the context of the chapter and relate it to the rest of the Bible that is talking about the same thing. The 1 st verse you quoted and the last are very similar. As they refer to the LORD coming in the clouds with his angles. One says you will see Jesus at the hand of the Father and coming in the clouds. The latter says the son of man comes with his angles. Stephen when he was stoned looked up and saw Jesus at the right hand of the Father standing up. This is where Jesus abides and he will come as both verses describe which Daniel 2, 7 and Zech 14 all show in the OT. In Dan 2 He is seen descending as a stone cut without hands who destroys the image on mans kingdoms and becomes a mountain that covers the earth and this kingdom will have no end. In Dan 7
I was watching in the night visions,
And behold, One like the Son of Man,
Coming with the clouds of heaven!
He came to the Ancient of Days,
And they brought Him near before Him.
14 Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom,
That all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion,
Which shall not pass away,
And His kingdom the one
Which shall not be destroyed.

Zech 14 shows the same day and ads many very specific prophetic details.

For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
The city shall be taken,
The houses rifled,
And the women ravished.
Half of the city shall go into captivity,
But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then the LORD will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,....

Thus the LORD my God will come,
And all the saints with You...

And in that day it shall be
That living waters shall flow from Jerusalem,
Half of them toward the eastern sea
And half of them toward the western sea;
In both summer and winter it shall occur.
9 And the LORD shall be King over all the earth.
In that day it shall be—
“The LORD is one,”[fn]
And His name one.

The people shall dwell in it;
And no longer shall there be utter destruction,
But Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.

12 And this shall be the plague with which the LORD will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem:
Their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet,
Their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets,
And their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths.
16 And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 17 And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, on them there will be no rain. 18 If the family of Egypt will not come up and enter in, they shall have no rain; they shall receive the plague with which the LORD strikes the nations who do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.

If these passages be literal then The verse you quote will not be fulfilled until the LORD comes exactly as described here. Those who were promised to see the son of man in his kingdom some say refers to those who saw Jesus with Moses and Elijah at the mt when Jesus was transfigured.

The other verse in Mathew 24 is a great question about 3 specific things when will these things be (destruction of the temple) the sings of your coming and the end of the age? So you have to break down all 3 synoptic gospels and see what is talking about 70 AD and what is talking about the 2nd coming / tribulation and the end of this age.

Lastly the quote in Mathew 26 about this generation wont pass away will be answered by asking what things and when. We can see from the previous passages that a lot is fulfilled when the son of man returns and perhaps looking to see if it is talking about that generation and those things would be useful.

Maria Billingsley · Jan 17, 2019

This is the "full Preterist" view not to be mistaken with a "partial Preterist" who still believes in a second coming.

Brian Mcnamee · Jan 17, 2019

hi I like your avatar.

1213 · Jan 17, 2019

Matthew 16:27-28 came true in this:

After six days, Jesus took with him Peter, James, and John his brother, and brought them up into a high mountain by themselves. He was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his garments became as white as the light. Behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them talking with him.
Matt. 17:1-3

Perhaps the things Jesus refers to in Matthew 24:34 have already happened.

I think it is good to notice also, the "last day" was not known even by Jesus, only God knows it.

But no one knows of that day and hour, not even the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Matt. 24:36

DreamerOfTheHeart · Jan 17, 2019

...scanned through some of the responses, including some of that, as well...

Somebody pointed out Jesus is shown to return before the full appearance of his return. This is after the two witnesses, in Revelation. They are correct. This is the 'thief in the night' stage, which is included in that description.

The world does not see the return, until afterwards. Which is exactly like what happens with a thief in the night, though this is not usually considered.

You go to sleep, your belongings are all there, but when you wake up, they are gone.

The wake up happens around Revelation 20.

This is also talked about in the parable of the 'ten virgins'. Ten are waiting, in the dark (remember, 'thief comes in the dark'), five stay awake ('be aware, for I come like a thief in the night'), five fall asleep. ('Two are at work, one is taken, one is left'.) The five who wake up, discover their lamps have spilled their oil. They have lost their light. They ask the other five, whose lamps are still burning, for some of their oil, but they say, 'I can not, or I will not have enough oil for my self'.

The popular *concepts* of the return is, "the return is much more simple and straightforward then any of this". But, these are popular, mainstream concepts. And, we know, 'the road which leads to death is wide, and many follow'. [Often I will use their language, their definition of their words, to say, but these are not my own views.]

When the five are told that they can not get the oil from the others, they go to the city to buy some.

They do, but when they get back, they discover that it is too late.

Likewise, if a thief comes, in the night, some might catch the thief. They stayed awake, to do so. In this manner, they can prevent the loss of their belongings.

Four disparate descriptions, the specifics, are in between.

There are more then these.

'The kingdom does not come in such a way that there are external observations, but the Kingdom is within and in our midst'. This can be likened as to needing a new pair of glasses. Without those glasses, you can not see what is in your midst. But, with those glasses, you can see.

The glasses are in your heart.

In the parable of the ten virgins, the glasses are put as lamps, in the dark.

The lamps are in your heart.

It is also said, however, when the Kingdom comes, it comes, globally.

Likewise, it is pointed out, in another parable, 'the workers in the field'.

And, it is said, that Jesus returns with an untold number of saints and angels.

These are the saints, who were previously dead.

Johnny4ChristJesus · Jan 17, 2019

Jesus said a lot of things cryptically and said things that were all over the timeline together. For Matthew 16, I don't see those two verses tied together. When Jesus appears after going back to the Father, that would fulfill Matthew 16:28. But, Matthew 16:27 refers to Judgment Day.

Revelation 1:7 confirms Matthew 26:64. But, if the "dead" are just "asleep" until His coming, then everyone--including those who stood against Him and those who pierced Him--will see Him at His second coming--when He will judge the living and the dead.

RE: Matthew 24:34: What if "this generation" refers to man in our current state. Why would I say that? Well, first let's add 24:35-6: "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but My Words shall not pass away. But of that day and hour knows no man, no, nor the angels of heaven, but My Father only."

If that day happened, then heaven and earth should have passed away. Note how Matthew 24:3 ties those together as well: "...what shall be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the World." Peter said: "But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men....But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and all the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved....Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent fire. Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth wherein dwells righteousness." (2 Pet 3:7, 10-13) And, also see Rev 20-21 for further clarification on those verses you questioned. This earth certainly doesn't appear to be what God promised would come.

DamianWarS · Jan 17, 2019

preterism will point to events like the rapture or the resurrection as a metaphor and a spiritual focus pointing to these verses as proof. The issue with this logic is if we can view these events like this than it should be reasonable to spin it around and when Jesus speaks of "this generation" or "no one tasting death" it too could in metaphor or with a spiritual focus. Paul really champions this idea that the resurrection is a physical event and since the resurrection and the return of Christ are linked together they inherit the same context.

eleos1954 · Jan 17, 2019

****

In opposition of these things having already happened ... I disagree, they are in the future

Matthew 16:27-28 (answering what will happen upon His return)

This occurs on the Mount of Transfiguration. In that event, After 6 days, Jesus took Peter, James and John, He led them up on this high mountain apart by themselves, and He was transfigured before them.

Jesus was glorified. Moses was there, who represents those who died and are resurrected. Elijah was there, representing those who are translated without seeing death.

It was a "picture/example or demonstration, of His Second Coming and what will happen (answering the apostles question of signs) ... that is at His 2nd coming ... some will be resurrected (will not taste the 2nd death) and some will be translated (will not taste the 1st death or 2nd death).

Matthew 24:34 - (answering the apostles of signs of when these things will happen)

“the words ‘this generation’ in v. 34 are in the context of vs. 27-51,
which deal exclusively with the coming of the Son of Man at the end of
the world.” 6 Thus, “The signs mentioned in
these verses and in Luke — ‘signs’ in the heavens and ‘upon the earth’
(Luke 21:25) — would take place so near the day of His coming that
Christ declared that the ‘generation’ that sees the last of the signs, shall
not pass before ‘all these things [Christ’s coming and the end of the
world] be fulfilled.”

Matthew 26:64 - (answering what will happen)

Affirming Himself as God and referring to His 2nd coming. When He returns every eye will see him.
Revelation 1:7

claninja · Jan 17, 2019

Per forum rules, Full preterists are allowed to post about "full preterist" in controversial Christian theology.

Unorthodox Christian theological topics include (but are not limited to):

Annihilationism
Full Preterism
Open Theism
Universalism

You might be thinking of Eschatology. Full preteristism is not allowed to be discussed in the Eschatology forum.

claninja · Jan 17, 2019

Matthew 24:3 While Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming and of the end of the age?”

It's important to note that the disciple's generation did experience famine, pestilence, persecution, false prophets, Jerusalem being surrounded by armies and the temple being destroyed.

When the disciples would see ALL these things, then they would know Christ's coming was near, right at the door.
Matthew 24:33 also, when you see all these things, you will know that He is near, right at the door

Notice James states the Lord's coming is at hand. He even states the Judge is "standing", which is a present tense verb, at the door. James must have been seeing the signs of the olivet discourse to write this statement:
James 5:8-9 You too, be patient and strengthen your hearts, because the Lord’s coming is at hand. Do not complain about one another, brothers, so that you will not be judged. Look, the Judge is standing at the door!

Peter believed the end was at hand
1 Peter 4:7 The end of all things is at hand

Paul believed they were living at the END OF THE AGE
1 Corinthians 10:11 Now these things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the fulfillment of the ages has come

John believed it was the last hour
1 John 2:18 Children, it is the last hour; and just as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have appeared. This is how we know it is the last hour

Why did all these disciples believe this? Because Jesus told them so:

Matthew 24:34 Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have happened. Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will never pass away.

Jesus tells Caiaphus that "from now" he would see the son of man sitting (present tense verb) at the right hand and coming (present tense verb) on the clouds of heaven.

Matthew 26:64 You have said it yourself,” Jesus answered. “But I say to all of you, from now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”g

We should look at Daniel 7 to help with the interpretation. In Daniel 7, which direction is the son of man coming with the clouds? To the Father (Ancient of Days).

Daniel 7:13-14 In my vision in the night I continued to watch: And I saw One like a Son of Man
coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into His presence. And He was given dominion, glory, and kingship,

Jesus fulfilled Daniel 7:13-14 when he came to the father on the clouds of heaven to receive dominion, glory, and a kingship.

Ephesians 1:20-21 which He exerted in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly realms, 21far above all rule and authority, power and dominion

Luke 24:26 Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things and then to enter His glory?”

Luke 19:12 So He said, “A man of noble birth went to a distant country to lay claim to his kingship and then return

**Thus we can see Matthew 26:64 fulfilled at Jesus' ascension: came on the clouds of heaven to sit at the right hand of the father.

Erik Nelson · Jan 17, 2019

Have We Missed the Second Coming

claninja · Jan 17, 2019

As someone who leans towards a preterist interpretation, I would disagree that the resurrection is a metaphor or spiritual focus.

As a preterist, I believe in bodily resurrection: natural body sown, spiritual body raised, Just a Paul puts it.

1 Corinthians 15:44-46 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being;” the last Adam a life-giving spirit. The spiritual, however, was not first, but the natural, and then the spiritual.

The partial preterist believes in a future coming of Christ. It is then, on the last day, at His coming, that the believer is resurrection/raised into their spiritual body to be present in the heavenly Kingdom of the Lord.

The full preterist believes the coming of Christ occurred in 70AD. From that point on, any believer who dies is instantly resurrected into their spiritual body to be present in the heavenly kingdom of the Lord.

Revelation 14:8-13 Then a second angel followed, saying, “Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great,b who has made all the nations drink the wine of the passion of her immorality.” And a third angel followed them, calling out in a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and its image, and receives its mark on his forehead or on his hand, he too will drink the wine of God’s anger, poured undiluted into the cup of His wrath. And he will be tormented in fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment will rise forever and ever. Day and night there will be no rest for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.” Here is a call for the endurance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. And I heard a voice from heaven telling me to write, “Blessed are the dead—those who die in the Lord from this moment on.”

The full preterist believes Ezekiel 43:7 is fulfilled.
Ezekiel 43:7 and He said to me, “Son of man, this is the place of My throne and the place for the soles of My feet, where I will dwell among the Israelites forever.

Acts 7:48-49 However, the Most High does not dwell in houses made by human hands. As the prophet says: ‘Heaven is My throne and the earth is My footstool.

God now dwells with his temple, the body of Christ, forever, whether they are in heaven (the place of his throne) in the spiritually raised body or on earth (his footstool) in the yet to be sown natural body.

devin553344 · Jan 17, 2019

So did I get this idea correct? That Jesus appeared to his disciples after being resurrected, but should later appear in a second coming to judge the world?

Monk Brendan · Jan 17, 2019

At some time, Jesus will summon me: either at the moment of my death or else at the Parousia, whichever comes first.

DreamerOfTheHeart · Jan 17, 2019

Yes, I was, thought that was here, did not look up.

Removed that paragraph.

PaulCyp1 · Jan 17, 2019

There are as many "current interpretations" as there are Protestant denominations, but what Jesus Christ told us is that NO-ONE will know the time, that He will come "like a thief in the night", when no-one is expecting Him.

DamianWarS · Jan 17, 2019

I was speaking to a full preterist view. thanks for your input, out of interests how do you reconcile the op?

alv_c · Jan 17, 2019

The second coming will happen in the Year 6000 YB, Year from the Beginning, because that will begin the millennial Shabbath of this heaven and earth. Read this study What Year the Second Coming Will Be, the Millennial Shabbath of the Year 6000 YB, Yovels, and the 1290+1335 Days of Daniel | Wisdom of God .

Daniel Martinovich · Jan 17, 2019

Well, if you get rid of the tradition of men that invented the phrase "second coming," that occurs nowhere in the NT. IE the Greek words for phrase second coming are not in the NT. Then just take it as the Bible says it. The coming or the day of the Lord. Then you can look a little deeper and find out there are dozens of different times the Lord physically came to earth in judgment and to preform promise and fulfill purpose. One of those times after the NT was written and in fulfillment of much OT and NT prophecy was in 70 AD. The end of the old covenant age. Another was in much fulfillment of OT and NT prophecy was the end of the age of the four gentile empires. But also he came to six of the seven churches in the NT, separately from these great days of judgment on these nations.

Pethesedzao · Jan 18, 2019

As there were in Paul's day so also in the present time; deceived folk perpetuating fake news. Please remember that the Second Coming will take place immediately after the Tribulation years are complete.

Second coming not on time?

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