Second coming not on time?

[devin553344]

I read this Christian article on the second coming and am confused about the following scriptures. They appear to be depicting the second coming as happening 2000 years ago? But surely this hasn't happened. So what is the current interpretation of this. Or has there been another thread on this already?

Matthew 16:27-28

Matthew 24:3,Matthew 24:34

Matthew 26:64

 

[Oldmantook]

You might want to study preterism, partial-preterism which advocates that idea. A bunch of baloney and a dangerous doctrine if you ask me

 

[devin553344]

You might want to study preterism, partial-preterism which advocates that idea. A bunch of baloney and a dangerous doctrine if you ask me

Preterism is not allowed discussion in this forum. But I was more interested in what is going on with those verses? Thanks. I updated the OP to be more clear.

 

[Jonaitis]

"Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom." - Matthew 16:28

Well, this can be understood in light of what the Lord said in this passage:

"Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment." - John 5:28

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"Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the close of the age?" - Matthew 24:3

The Lord Jesus in the following words explains the various events that must occur before his return. I have seen verse 4-9...

Oh, wait, I am not allowed to speak anymore about this since I am a partial-"peterist." That's okay

(btw, partial peterist don't hold that Christ already returned).

 

[Oldmantook]

Preterism is not allowed discussion in this forum. But I was more interested in what is going on with those verses? Thanks. I updated the OP to be more clear.

I could be mistaken but I think it has been discussed before as I don't think it's off limits on this site - but I could be wrong. Anyway, it basically about Jesus coming not in the future but already a past event based on Jesus' statement that there were those standing with Him who would not taste death till they see Jesus come again. Obviously those people have died, so preterists believe that Jesus must have come within their lifetimes which makes the 2nd coming a past event.

 

[devin553344]

"Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom." - Matthew 16:28

Well, this can be understood in light of what the Lord said in this passage:

"Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment." - John 5:28

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the close of the age?" - Matthew 24:3

The Lord Jesus in the following words explains the various events that must occur before his return. I have seen verse 4-9...

Oh, wait, I am not allowed to speak anymore about this since I am a partial-"peterist." That's okay

(btw, partial peterist don't hold that Christ already returned).

Thanks

 

[devin553344]

I could be mistaken but I think it has been discussed before as I don't think it's off limits on this site - but I could be wrong. Anyway, it basically about Jesus coming not in the future but already a past event based on Jesus' statement that there were those standing with Him who would not taste death till they see Jesus come again. Obviously those people have died, so preterists believe that Jesus must have come within their lifetimes which makes the 2nd coming a past event.

Didn't Jesus return though and appear to them after his resurrection. That's in the bible right. So then that was not the second coming since He would appear with clouds and all should see him. John 20:19-20

I think I see where preterism comes from maybe. But there are clearly two things discussed. John 20:19-20 and Revelation 1:7.

 

[Oldmantook]

"Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom." - Matthew 16:28

Well, this can be understood in light of what the Lord said in this passage:

"Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment." - John 5:28

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the close of the age?" - Matthew 24:3

The Lord Jesus in the following words explains the various events that must occur before his return. I have seen verse 4-9...

Oh, wait, I am not allowed to speak anymore about this since I am a partial-"peterist." That's okay

(btw, partial peterist don't hold that Christ already returned).

I was just wondering about that Jn 5:28 verse that you cited. At Jesus' 2nd coming only the dead in Christ rise, yes? If so, then this verse cannot apply to the 2nd coming since it states that an hour (singular event) is coming when BOTH the good and the evil are resurrected. The good are resurrected to life and the evil are resurrected to judgment. What do you think?

 

[Oldmantook]

Didn't Jesus return though and appear to them after his resurrection. That's in the bible right. So then that was not the second coming since He would appear with clouds and all should see him. John 20:19-20

Yes that's correct.

My belief is that in Revelation 16:15-16 Jesus himself refers to the timing of his return - and it's not in the past. Based on these two verses - he states he is a coming as a thief - right before the battle of Armageddon. Thus the rapture where Jesus comes "as a thief" takes place after the great tribulation and not before the tribulation as pre-tribbers believe. The rapture and the 2nd coming are one and the same event. This passage also cancels out the notion by preterists that Jesus has already come.

 

[Jonaitis]

I was just wondering about that Jn 5:28 verse that you cited. At Jesus' 2nd coming only the dead in Christ rise, yes? If so, then this verse cannot apply to the 2nd coming since it states that an hour (singular event) is coming when BOTH the good and the evil are resurrected. The good are resurrected to life and the evil are resurrected to judgment. What do you think?

Devin553344

 

[ItIsFinished!]

I was just wondering about that Jn 5:28 verse that you cited. At Jesus' 2nd coming only the dead in Christ rise, yes? If so, then this verse cannot apply to the 2nd coming since it states that an hour (singular event) is coming when BOTH the good and the evil are resurrected. The good are resurrected to life and the evil are resurrected to judgment. What do you think?

Good logic and reasoning friend.
At the Second Coming of Christ at the end of the 7 year tribulation those who accepted Christ as Saviour during that time period and who have died will be resurrected.
Please note that in regards to the resurrection of the just , it happens in stages.
The dead in Christ are those who have been saved since Pentacost and who have passed away from that time till the removal of the Church before the 7 year tribulation.
There is only one time for the unjust to resurrect and that is at The Great White Throne Judgment.
And there is only one resurrection for the just , but at different stages.
That has caused much confusion for many individuals and has distorted their perception of the end times and resurrection of the just in general.
One must understand the stages of resurrection of the just.
You have pointed out a great observation regarding this matter.

 

[devin553344]

Yes that's correct.

My belief is that in Revelation 16:15-16 Jesus himself refers to the timing of his return - and it's not in the past. Based on these two verses - he states he is a coming as a thief - right before the battle of Armageddon. Thus the rapture where Jesus comes "as a thief" takes place after the great tribulation and not before the tribulation as pre-tribbers believe. The rapture and the 2nd coming are one and the same event. This passage also cancels out the notion by preterists that Jesus has already come.

Wow that "Christian" article I read really threw me for a loop, online garbage probably. But I think it was taking scriptures out of context. It's been a long time since I studied the second coming, but I think I'm starting to remember the different appearances of Jesus return.

 

[devin553344]

View attachment 249367

Devin553344

Thanks for reminding me I'm on CF. I almost forgot.

 

[Albion]

Incidentally, Scripture also says that the Gospel is to be preached to the whole world and then will come the end (Mt 24:14). It has been argued that it is only in our lifetimes that modern communications have made delivering the Gospel to all nations a reality, so now should be the end of the church age with a Second Coming as imminent.

 

[ItIsFinished!]

Incidentally, Scripture also says that the Gospel is to be preached to the whole world and then will come the end (Mt 24:14). It has been argued that it is only in our lifetimes that modern communications have made delivering the Gospel to all nations a reality, so now should be the end of the church age with a Second Coming as imminent.

With the end of the Church age results in the removal of the Church (Bride) not to be confused with The Second Coming of Christ.
Two seperate and distinct events.

 

[Albion]

Two separate and distinct events, yes. But the second follows closely after the other.

That is why both of these are said to be imminent when the Gospel finally reaches the whole world.

 

[ItIsFinished!]

Two separate and distinct events, yes. But the second follows closely after the other.

That is why both of these are said to be imminent when the Gospel finally reaches the whole world.

I agree.
7 years in between (Roughly. No one will know the exact time.)
What is primarily imminent is the removal of the Bride (Church ) which can happened before I finish typing this post.
The Bride has to prepare for the marriage Supper of the Lamb which will occur at the end of the 7 year tribulation and before the literal 1,000 year reign of Christ.

 

[Oldmantook]

Good logic and reasoning friend.
At the Second Coming of Christ at the end of the 7 year tribulation those who accepted Christ as Saviour during that time period and who have died will be resurrected.
Please note that in regards to the resurrection of the just , it happens in stages.
The dead in Christ are those who have been saved since Pentacost and who have passed away from that time till the removal of the Church before the 7 year tribulation.
There is only one time for the unjust to resurrect and that is at The Great White Throne Judgment.
And there is only one resurrection for the just , but at different stages.
That has caused much confusion for many individuals and has distorted their perception of the end times and resurrection of the just in general.
One must understand the stages of resurrection of the just.
You have pointed out a great observation regarding this matter.

The problem is all pre-tribbers believe that the phrase "come as a thief" refers to the rapture which is "secret" thus distinguishing this as a separate event from the 2nd coming in which "every eye will see him." However in Rev 16:15-16, Jesus states that he "comes as a thief" right before Armageddon thus contradicting the pre-trib rapture.
Jn 5:28-29 also refers to a single even (an hour) - not separate events when the BOTH the good and evil are judged at the same time. This is problematic for those who believe that only the unsaved are judged at the GWT judgment.
In Jn 5:28-29 Jesus himself stated: 28 Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming in which all those in the tombs will hear His voice, 29and will come forth—those having done good to the resurrection of life, and those having done evil to the resurrection of judgment.
Jesus cites a specific hour (singular) in which ALL those in the tombs will be resurrected - both the "good" AND the "evil."

The Apostle Paul confirms the same thing when he stated: "and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked" (Acts 24:15). Paul referred to a [singular] resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked which parallels Jesus' statement in Jn 5:28-29. I believe this refers to the GWT judgment where both the saved and unsaved are judged, based upon their works. Yet most if not all of us have been taught that only the unsaved are judged at the GWT.

 

[SkyWriting]

Incidentally, Scripture also says that the Gospel is to be preached to the whole world and then will come the end (Mt 24:14). It has been argued that it is only in our lifetimes that modern communications have made delivering the Gospel to all nations a reality, so now should be the end of the church age with a Second Coming as imminent.

Not now exactly, by that argument:
An estimated 16 percent of the world's population — 1.2 billion people — have little or no access to electricity.

 

[Albion]

Well, I don't know everything about that argument, but I think it is assumed that such people can be reached in other ways. In other words, there is no part of the world that has yet to be affected by Christian missionary efforts. After all, neither the claim nor the Bible itself is saying that every last person will be presented with the Gospel personally.