Second-chance Purgatory?

morgannicole555 · Apr 8, 2019

eleos1954 said:
All people who die an earthly death wait in the grave (in a dormant state) and the saved will be resurrected in the 1st resurrection. The lost are later resurrected in the 2nd resurrection. There is not any "in between" place where people go.

Ecclesiastes 9

5 For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing. They have no further reward, because the memory of them is forgotten.

1 Thessalonians 4

The Return of the Lord

13Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope. 14For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.

15By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. 17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.

18Therefore encourage one another with these words.

There are many many references in the bible about being in the grave (as an unconsciousness sleep).

There are no 2nd chances after death.

God Bless.

I have heard about the thought everyone that has died on earth is not in Heaven yet, but is actually "sleeping" in the grave. It's pretty new to me, I only first heard it from my father a year or so ago. If this is correct, then would you think that meant all of the non-believers that are "sleeping" will be awoken by Christ and have the chance to see they were wrong, repent, and go to Heaven?

Monk Brendan · Apr 8, 2019

Morgan Johnson said:
Hello, I've never been on one of these forums before but have to hear some other opinions on this. I was raised to believe that if you do not accept Jesus into your heart, you go to hell... period. Well the other night this topic somehow came up with my boyfriend and he does not feel the same way (he grew up Christian as well). He believes that people across the world who did not grow up in a Christian society and who were raised by their families to believe a different religion, will not automatically go to hell, but instead go to some sort of purgatory where God will give them a second chance. He doesn't believe that God would condemn someone to hell for believing in the religion their parents taught them to. I'm not sure of anything like this being referenced in the Bible and am feeling very conflicted now. Thoughts?

Speaking of non-Biblical doctrines:

Nowhere does the Bible say to "accept Jesus in your heart."

Nor does it call Jesus "personal savior."

Fidelibus · Apr 8, 2019

Dave-W said:
As a messianic, we follow the Jewish canon on the Hebrew scriptures. Maccabees are not in Hebrew. Never were.

Could I ask then your view on the Jewish practice/custom of the "Qaddish?" The Jewish custom of praying on behalf of a loved one that has died for eleven months, by asking God to hasten the purification of a loved one's soul. Is it your belief this Jewish practice/custom also has little to no support in either scripture or early Jewish tradition?

Albion · Apr 8, 2019

It is not a Catholic doctrine that anyone gets a second chance in the afterlife, nor is that the purpose for Purgatory (if one is to believe in it). And it is not supported by the Bible.

What is described in the original post is apparently just the thinking that the bf came up with on his own.

Yekcidmij · Apr 8, 2019

Morgan Johnson said:
He believes that people across the world who did not grow up in a Christian society and who were raised by their families to believe a different religion, will not automatically go to hell, but instead go to some sort of purgatory where God will give them a second chance.

Many Protestants believe in the Rapture followed by a 7 year "tribulation period" where everyone who wasn't raptured has a second chance, though they will have to go through that tribulation period. Sounds pretty similar to me.

Calvin_1985 · Apr 8, 2019

Morgan Johnson said:
Hello, I've never been on one of these forums before but have to hear some other opinions on this. I was raised to believe that if you do not accept Jesus into your heart, you go to hell... period. Well the other night this topic somehow came up with my boyfriend and he does not feel the same way (he grew up Christian as well). He believes that people across the world who did not grow up in a Christian society and who were raised by their families to believe a different religion, will not automatically go to hell, but instead go to some sort of purgatory where God will give them a second chance. He doesn't believe that God would condemn someone to hell for believing in the religion their parents taught them to. I'm not sure of anything like this being referenced in the Bible and am feeling very conflicted now. Thoughts?

You're trying to find the answers in the wrong place. Go to Father and ask him for your answers. He will point you to Jesus. Read the words of Jesus. Jesus will give you these answers. The people here will only confuse you with numerous explanations. Go to our Lord my friend.

Ttalkkugjil · Apr 8, 2019

Morgan Johnson said:
Hello, I've never been on one of these forums before but have to hear some other opinions on this. I was raised to believe that if you do not accept Jesus into your heart, you go to hell... period. Well the other night this topic somehow came up with my boyfriend and he does not feel the same way (he grew up Christian as well). He believes that people across the world who did not grow up in a Christian society and who were raised by their families to believe a different religion, will not automatically go to hell, but instead go to some sort of purgatory where God will give them a second chance. He doesn't believe that God would condemn someone to hell for believing in the religion their parents taught them to. I'm not sure of anything like this being referenced in the Bible and am feeling very conflicted now. Thoughts?

I think both you and your boyfriend are wrong.

Albion · Apr 8, 2019

Yekcidmij said:
Many Protestants believe in the Rapture followed by a 7 year "tribulation period" where everyone who wasn't raptured has a second chance, though they will have to go through that tribulation period. Sounds pretty similar to me.

...except that the tribulation refers to humans alive in the flesh on Earth, whereas the question was about a second chance for people after they have died, passed into the afterlife, and been judged to be unworthy of heaven.

morgannicole555 · Apr 8, 2019

Ttalkkugjil said:
I think both you and your boyfriend are wrong.

What do you think then?

Albion · Apr 8, 2019

When you die, your status is sealed. Nothing will change it in the afterlife. The only possible ways around this belief is if everyone is saved regardless of belief or actions while alive on Earth, or at least everyone who had no chance of knowing Christ, the Savior. But none of that is standard Christian belief and certainly not what the Catholic church officially teaches.

Dave-W · Apr 8, 2019

Fidelibus said:
Could I ask then your view on the Jewish practice/custom of the "Qaddish?" The Jewish custom of praying on behalf of a loved one that has died for eleven months, by asking God to hasten the purification of a loved one's soul. Is it your belief this Jewish practice/custom also has little to no support in either scripture or early Jewish tradition?

We Messianics recite Kaddish also.

Um - do you know the text of the Kaddish?

I just said it this past Saturday for the first anniversary of my mom's passing. It is said every day for the first seven days after passing, then once a month for 11 months and then on the anniversary (called yartzeit) for the rest of your life. It says NOTHING about cleansing or purifying the deceased. Here is an English translation of the most common form (Ashkenazi). It is said standing by the mourner, and everyone else sitting answers with the bolded parts:

Mourner’s Kaddish in English Translation

Glorified and sanctified be God’s great name throughout the world
which He has created according to His will.

May He establish His kingdom in your lifetime and during your days,
and within the life of the entire House of Israel, speedily and soon;
and say, Amen.

May His great name be blessed forever and to all eternity.

Blessed and praised, glorified and exalted, extolled and honored,
adored and lauded be the name of the Holy One, blessed be He,
beyond all the blessings and hymns, praises and consolations that
are ever spoken in the world; and say, Amen.

May there be abundant peace from heaven, and life, for us
and for all Israel; and say, Amen.

He who creates peace in His celestial heights,
may He create peace for us and for all Israel;
and say, Amen.

BTW - this prayer dates to the first century bc, and was one of the prayers our Lord used as a pattern for what we call the "Lord's Prayer" or the "Our Father."

Did you see anything in there mentioning the deceased at all?

Albion · Apr 8, 2019

Morgan Johnson said:
I have heard about the thought everyone that has died on earth is not in Heaven yet, but is actually "sleeping" in the grave. It's pretty new to me, I only first heard it from my father a year or so ago. If this is correct, then would you think that meant all of the non-believers that are "sleeping" will be awoken by Christ and have the chance to see they were wrong, repent, and go to Heaven?

No. First, this belief is usually considered to be a mark of a cult. But second, even those people and churches which believe in soul sleep dont believe that it gives the person any second chances.

PaulCyp1 · Apr 8, 2019

Your friend is misinformed. Those who go to Purgatory have already been judged as saved, but still carry some stain of unforgiveness or unrepented minor sins. It is a place of final purification, because no-one can come into God's presence with such spiritual baggage.

Calvin_1985 · Apr 8, 2019

PaulCyp1 said:
Your friend is misinformed. Those who go to Purgatory have already been judged as saved, but still carry some stain of unforgiveness or unrepented minor sins. It is a place of final purification, because no-one can come into God's presence with such spiritual baggage.

So Jesus doesn't atone for sins?

Tutorman · Apr 8, 2019

Morgan Johnson said:
Hello, I've never been on one of these forums before but have to hear some other opinions on this. I was raised to believe that if you do not accept Jesus into your heart, you go to hell... period. Well the other night this topic somehow came up with my boyfriend and he does not feel the same way (he grew up Christian as well). He believes that people across the world who did not grow up in a Christian society and who were raised by their families to believe a different religion, will not automatically go to hell, but instead go to some sort of purgatory where God will give them a second chance. He doesn't believe that God would condemn someone to hell for believing in the religion their parents taught them to. I'm not sure of anything like this being referenced in the Bible and am feeling very conflicted now. Thoughts?

Purgatory is not a second chance, you either go to Heaven or Hell. Purgatory is what St. Paul talked abut in Scripture 1 Corinthians 3:11-15 and Purgatory could happen in an instant and is only for believers. CS Lewis said it best:

"Of course I pray for the dead. The action is so spontaneous, so all but inevitable, that only the most compulsive theological case against it would deter me. And I hardly know how the rest of my prayers would survive if those for the dead were forbidden. At our age, the majority of those we love best are dead. What sort of intercourse with God could I have if what I love best were unmentionable to him?

I believe in Purgatory.

Mind you, the Reformers had good reasons for throwing doubt on the 'Romish doctrine concerning Purgatory' as that Romish doctrine had then become.....

The right view returns magnificently in Newman's DREAM. There, if I remember it rightly, the saved soul, at the very foot of the throne, begs to be taken away and cleansed. It cannot bear for a moment longer 'With its darkness to affront that light'. Religion has claimed Purgatory.

Our souls demand Purgatory, don't they? Would it not break the heart if God said to us, 'It is true, my son, that your breath smells and your rags drip with mud and slime, but we are charitable here and no one will upbraid you with these things, nor draw away from you. Enter into the joy'? Should we not reply, 'With submission, sir, and if there is no objection, I'd rather be cleaned first.' 'It may hurt, you know' - 'Even so, sir.'

I assume that the process of purification will normally involve suffering. Partly from tradition; partly because most real good that has been done me in this life has involved it. But I don't think the suffering is the purpose of the purgation. I can well believe that people neither much worse nor much better than I will suffer less than I or more. . . . The treatment given will be the one required, whether it hurts little or much.

My favourite image on this matter comes from the dentist's chair. I hope that when the tooth of life is drawn and I am 'coming round',' a voice will say, 'Rinse your mouth out with this.' This will be Purgatory. The rinsing may take longer than I can now imagine. The taste of this may be more fiery and astringent than my present sensibility could endure. But . . . it will [not] be disgusting and unhallowed."
http://www.angelfire.com/pa3/OldWorldBasic/purgatorycslewis.htm

Source

Albion · Apr 8, 2019

Tutorman said:
Purgatory is not a second chance, you either go to Heaven or Hell.

That is correct.

But I hope that the thread wont drift into being, pro vs con, about Purgatory itself.

Yarddog · Apr 8, 2019

Morgan Johnson said:
Hello, I've never been on one of these forums before but have to hear some other opinions on this. I was raised to believe that if you do not accept Jesus into your heart, you go to hell... period. Well the other night this topic somehow came up with my boyfriend and he does not feel the same way (he grew up Christian as well). He believes that people across the world who did not grow up in a Christian society and who were raised by their families to believe a different religion, will not automatically go to hell, but instead go to some sort of purgatory where God will give them a second chance. He doesn't believe that God would condemn someone to hell for believing in the religion their parents taught them to. I'm not sure of anything like this being referenced in the Bible and am feeling very conflicted now. Thoughts?

Purgatory has nothing to do with a 2nd chance. It is about the cleansing of sin which believers may have not dealt with before death. As an example, if you sinned against another Christian but never asked for forgiveness or tried to repent of this action, purgatory is the cleansing of that before entering heaven. Purgatory means to purify.

Yarddog · Apr 8, 2019

grasping the after wind said:
I was not aware that the Catholic church believed that non believers got a chance in Purgatory to become believers. Are you sure this is the doctrine of the RCC?

The Catholic Church doesn't judge, God does. We all face judgement according to Scripture and God can have mercy on whomever God chooses.

morgannicole555 · Apr 8, 2019

Albion said:
That is correct.

But I hope that the thread wont drift into being, pro vs con, about Purgatory itself.

I do believe that Jesus is the only way to Heaven and eternal peace. But what about all of the people out there in the world that, let's say know of Christianity, but their family has told them their religion was the right way. And they were never witnessed to by a missionary so they never learned the depths of Jesus. Do they just get sentenced to hell?

morgannicole555 · Apr 8, 2019

Yarddog said:
The Catholic Church doesn't judge, God does. We all face judgement according to Scripture and God can have mercy on whomever God chooses.

Even someone who believed in a different religion? Or who knew so little about Christianity that it made more sense to them to believe what they grew up practicing?

Second-chance Purgatory?

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