Seat of Moses ?

[Meowzltov]

Reference?

"and saw some of his disciples eating food with hands that were defiled, that is, unwashed...So the Pharisees and teachers of the law asked Jesus, "Why don't your disciples live according to the tradition of the elders instead of eating their food with defiled hands?" Mark 7:2,5

Notice it says they saw SOME of the disciples not washing their hands. Nor did they catch Yeshua eating with defiled hands. Clearly Yeshua's policy was to keep Jewish law. It's just some of the disciples were not following through. Yeshua used the opportunity to point out the Pharisee's hypocrisy and teach a larger lesson.

 

[visionary]

"and saw some of his disciples eating food with hands that were defiled, that is, unwashed...So the Pharisees and teachers of the law asked Jesus, "Why don't your disciples live according to the tradition of the elders instead of eating their food with defiled hands?" Mark 7:2,5

Notice it says they saw SOME of the disciples not washing their hands. Nor did they catch Yeshua eating with defiled hands. Clearly Yeshua's policy was to keep Jewish law. It's just some of the disciples were not following through. Yeshua used the opportunity to point out the Pharisee's hypocrisy and teach a larger lesson.

OR, Yeshua wasn't eating.

 

[pat34lee]

"and saw some of his disciples eating food with hands that were defiled, that is, unwashed...So the Pharisees and teachers of the law asked Jesus, "Why don't your disciples live according to the tradition of the elders instead of eating their food with defiled hands?" Mark 7:2,5

Notice it says they saw SOME of the disciples not washing their hands. Nor did they catch Yeshua eating with defiled hands. Clearly Yeshua's policy was to keep Jewish law. It's just some of the disciples were not following through. Yeshua used the opportunity to point out the Pharisee's hypocrisy and teach a larger lesson.

You read that as if all were eating; some with
and some without washing ceremonially. I see
it as only some were eating, and none of them
had performed the ceremony. Many of Yeshua's
disciples were not highly 'civilized' people. They
were fishermen and lower caste citizens; rough
mannered and uncouth.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

You read that as if all were eating; some with
and some without washing ceremonially. I see
it as only some were eating, and none of them
had performed the ceremony. Many of Yeshua's
disciples were not highly 'civilized' people. They
were fishermen and lower caste citizens; rough
mannered and uncouth.

"And he said to them, are you so without understanding also? Perceive not, that whatsoever from without goes into the man, cannot defile him; because it goes not into his heart, but into his belly, and goes out into the draught? And he said, that which goes out of the man, that defileth the man."

“Do you still not understand? Do you not yet realize that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then is eliminated? But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these things defile a man. For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony and slander. These are what defile a man, but eating with unwashed hands does not defile him."

 

[Mercymessianicjudiasm]

"and saw some of his disciples eating food with hands that were defiled, that is, unwashed...So the Pharisees and teachers of the law asked Jesus, "Why don't your disciples live according to the tradition of the elders instead of eating their food with defiled hands?" Mark 7:2,5

Notice it says they saw SOME of the disciples not washing their hands. Nor did they catch Yeshua eating with defiled hands. Clearly Yeshua's policy was to keep Jewish law. It's just some of the disciples were not following through. Yeshua used the opportunity to point out the Pharisee's hypocrisy and teach a larger lesson.

Be careful to observe verse 19 and verse 20. What comes out of the body as dung, defiles the man. This is why it is important to use tissue to wipe your behind; hand washing becomes required at this point. In old times, men buried their dung outside the camp.

 

[Meowzltov]

Be careful to observe verse 19 and verse 20. What comes out of the body as dung, defiles the man. This is why it is important to use tissue to wipe your behind; hand washing becomes required at this point. In old times, men buried their dung outside the camp.

He's making the point that badmouthing a person is at least as defiling as not washing your hands, something that the Pharisees neglected. It's an important point. (Nothing to do with the wiping of the bum, btw.)

 

[Meowzltov]

You read that as if all were eating; some with
and some without washing ceremonially. I see
it as only some were eating, and none of them
had performed the ceremony. Many of Yeshua's
disciples were not highly 'civilized' people. They
were fishermen and lower caste citizens; rough
mannered and uncouth.

I'm not opposed to your explanation. My only thing is that it specifically says that SOME had not washed their hands, which definitely means not all.

 

[Mercymessianicjudiasm]

OR, Yeshua wasn't eating.

All food is clean that YHWH has declared or made clean (Mark 7:19). All those things that Yeshua mentions from verse 21 to 23 suppose to be flushed down the toilet (evil thoughts, envying, murder, theft, adultery, coveting, wickedness, deceit, foolishness, coveting, slander, sexual immorality, pride, sensuality); air freshener may need to be used to prevent the entire bathroom from "smelling " defiled. I hope and pray you have toilet paper for your journey and wash your hands with both soap and water before you leave. Your hands and the backside of your body have become defiled through the entire process.

 

[Meowzltov]

OR, Yeshua wasn't eating.

I'm sure that if Yeshua was EVER caught eating without washing his hands, the Pharisees would have made a big big deal about it.

 

[Mercymessianicjudiasm]

I'm sure that if Yeshua was EVER caught eating without washing his hands, the Pharisees would have made a big big deal about it.

They called Yeshua a glutton and drunkard (Matthew 11:19).

 

[Mercymessianicjudiasm]

He's making the point that badmouthing a person is at least as defiling as not washing your hands, something that the Pharisees neglected. It's an important point. (Nothing to do with the wiping of the bum, btw.)

How else do you make clean your body when what you ate comes out of your body, "a man is defiled by what comes out of the body". We know dung is expelled out of the body, your hands and at least the backside from your body are defiled. Ceremonial or public hand washing is not necessary because the dung is buried outside the camp. You should wipe your backside and "privately" wash your hands before returning to the camp.

 

[Mercymessianicjudiasm]

"and saw some of his disciples eating food with hands that were defiled, that is, unwashed...So the Pharisees and teachers of the law asked Jesus, "Why don't your disciples live according to the tradition of the elders instead of eating their food with defiled hands?" Mark 7:2,5

Notice it says they saw SOME of the disciples not washing their hands. Nor did they catch Yeshua eating with defiled hands. Clearly Yeshua's policy was to keep Jewish law. It's just some of the disciples were not following through. Yeshua used the opportunity to point out the Pharisee's hypocrisy and teach a larger lesson.

If Yeshua disciples honored their parents, by washing their hands in secret (while in the bathroom), how would the Pharisees know their hands were clean not defiled?

 

[Meowzltov]

If Yeshua disciples honored their parents, by washing their hands in secret (while in the bathroom), how would the Pharisees know their hands were clean not defiled?

How do we know there were bathrooms in poor homes? How do we know RITUAL washing was done in bathrooms? (Remember that in those days, there was no such thing as washing hands for hygienic reasons.) And what does it have to do with honoring parents?

 

[Meowzltov]

How else do you make clean your body when what you ate comes out of your body, "a man is defiled by what comes out of the body". We know dung is expelled out of the body, your hands and at least the backside from your body are defiled. Ceremonial or public hand washing is not necessary because the dung is buried outside the camp. You should wipe your backside and "privately" wash your hands before returning to the camp.

They had no concept of germs. No one washed their hands after using the bathroom.

 

[Meowzltov]

They called Yeshua a glutton and drunkard (Matthew 11:19).

Yes, because he enjoyed food when he had it, and because he said amazing things, much of which was hard for them to understand.

This has nothing to do with the conspicuous lack of any accusation that he didn't ritually wash his hands.

 

[Meowzltov]

All food is clean that YHWH has declared or made clean (Mark 7:19). All those things that Yeshua mentions from verse 21 to 23 suppose to be flushed down the toilet (evil thoughts, envying, murder, theft, adultery, coveting, wickedness, deceit, foolishness, coveting, slander, sexual immorality, pride, sensuality); air freshener may need to be used to prevent the entire bathroom from "smelling " defiled. I hope and pray you have toilet paper for your journey and wash your hands with both soap and water before you leave. Your hands and the backside of your body have become defiled through the entire process.

I'm very glad you have good hygiene!

Remember though that this sort of hygiene is a modern thing that only came into being with the discovery of germs (via the invention of the microscope). It was only a couple hundred years ago that people would use the bathroom, not wash, and then prepare food. They would go to the bathroom in the local river, and get drinking water from the same river. Doctors would autopsy dead bodies, and then go deliver babies without washing their hands. These things caused incredible illness and death, but they were simply ignorant of it.

 

[Mercymessianicjudiasm]

How do we know there were bathrooms in poor homes? How do we know RITUAL washing was done in bathrooms? (Remember that in those days, there was no such thing as washing hands for hygienic reasons.) And what does it have to do with honoring parents?

Yeshua said that the Pharisees did their works publicly to be seen by men. This is what "ceremonial" means.

 

[Mercymessianicjudiasm]

I'm very glad you have good hygiene!

Remember though that this sort of hygiene is a modern thing that only came into being with the discovery of germs (via the invention of the microscope). It was only a couple hundred years ago that people would use the bathroom, not wash, and then prepare food. They would go to the bathroom in the local river, and get drinking water from the same river. Doctors would autopsy dead bodies, and then go deliver babies without washing their hands. These things caused incredible illness and death, but they were simply ignorant of it.

I guess you were living back then so therefore you know everything that occurred in ancient times? Should I prefer your words over the words from the prophet Jeremiah? The people had soap in the days of Jeremiah (Jeremiah 2:22).

 

[Mercymessianicjudiasm]

How do we know there were bathrooms in poor homes? How do we know RITUAL washing was done in bathrooms? (Remember that in those days, there was no such thing as washing hands for hygienic reasons.) And what does it have to do with honoring parents?

Yeshua says pray in a secret place (a closet); Psalms 91:1 and Matthew 6:6.

 

[Meowzltov]

Yeshua said that the Pharisees did their works publicly to be seen by men. This is what "ceremonial" means.

No, ceremonial does not mean public. As an MJ who is single and lives alone, I do most of my Jewish rituals privately, including the washing of hands.