Seat of Moses ?

[Eloy Craft]

The people saw the hypocrites sleep in the "bed" with the Romans to have the apostles crucified......

That's interesting. I may not understand your point. I have questions. The Pharisees were afraid to arrest Jesus in public. They were afraid to treat Jesus with contempt in public. Public knowledge of conspiracies between the Jewish leaders and the Romans to arrest the apostles would have broke many of the disciples resolve as Jesus' arrest demonstrated. I think if Jesus' followers were breaking off due to knowledge of conspiracies it probably would have been recorded. You wrote "to have the apostles crucified" are you speaking of a later time in the history of the Apostolic Chrurch?

 

[Eloy Craft]

I think Jesus is recognizing the Pharisees rather than the Herodian dynasty and the Priesthood they installed as the seat of authority. The Priesthood was bought with money. This divorces the choice from the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Or He is recognizing them as service to the temple and the Pharisees as the religious teaching institution. It's my contention that regardless, those are secdondary issues to explore and the truth about who exercised the authority of Moses was revealed by God the Son.

 

[Eloy Craft]

The fact that the authority of the Jewish King and the ministry of the Priesthood was destroyed in 70 ad and that was announced by Jesus is proof enough that the divine authority had left the Temple. That the Pharisees held the authority of Moses only because Jesus said it. The Pharisaic tradition developed into today's Rabbi's right?

 

[Eloy Craft]

There are similar criticisms of many Catholics today. They do rituals and say their hail mary's and go about these procedures for repenting sin, but then go right back and do sin again. They begin to think that it's okay to sin, so long as I say my hail mary and confess to the priest everything will be fine. In the same way, they go through rituals and hold up the appearance of holiness, but they are not holy in their behavior or in their heart. It becomes about following rules and not about loving God.

Beware of judging by appearances because Jesus is a 'before' and 'after. of human history. There, between the before and after, is placed a mirror that projects what was false 'before' as false 'after' so as to remove the image of Christ in the 'after' times.

 

[Eloy Craft]

There are similar criticisms of many Catholics today. They do rituals and say their hail mary's and go about these procedures for repenting sin, but then go right back and do sin again. They begin to think that it's okay to sin, so long as I say my hail mary and confess to the priest everything will be fine. In the same way, they go through rituals and hold up the appearance of holiness, but they are not holy in their behavior or in their heart. It becomes about following rules and not about loving God.

Do you believe there is anything you can do to lose your salvation? How is that not a greater scandal as it relates to the sin of presumption?

 

[Mercymessianicjudiasm]

Absolutely, when he answered the rich man how to gain eternal life. However, there is no instance where he singles out separating wool from linen. Nor is there any place in the rest of the NT. I cannot elaborate further, as my views are prohibited by the SOP.

Again Torah did not say to separate wool from linen. Please do not quote Torah if you deliberately misquote it. Deuteronomy 22:11

 

[Mercymessianicjudiasm]

That's interesting. I may not understand your point. I have questions. The Pharisees were afraid to arrest Jesus in public. They were afraid to treat Jesus with contempt in public. Public knowledge of conspiracies between the Jewish leaders and the Romans to arrest the apostles would have broke many of the disciples resolve as Jesus' arrest demonstrated. I think if Jesus' followers were breaking off due to knowledge of conspiracies it probably would have been recorded. You wrote "to have the apostles crucified" are you speaking of a later time in the history of the Apostolic Chrurch?

For the sake of argument. I will say the Pharisees conspired with the Romans to have Yeshua crucified, they even tried to persuade him through legal matters to disannul the seat of Moses.

 

[Mercymessianicjudiasm]

The fact that the authority of the Jewish King and the ministry of the Priesthood was destroyed in 70 ad and that was announced by Jesus is proof enough that the divine authority had left the Temple. That the Pharisees held the authority of Moses only because Jesus said it. The Pharisaic tradition developed into today's Rabbi's right?

Do not our rabbi(s) think they sit in the seat of Moses when they teach us Torah? They know they are no priest like Moses. The Pharisees were no priesthood, ceremonial duty belonged to the priest.

 

[danny ski]

The fact that the authority of the Jewish King and the ministry of the Priesthood was destroyed in 70 ad and that was announced by Jesus is proof enough that the divine authority had left the Temple. That the Pharisees held the authority of Moses only because Jesus said it. The Pharisaic tradition developed into today's Rabbi's right?

The Jewish religious and legal authority changed and evolved because they had to in order to survive. It had nothing to do with Jesus or Christianity and everything to do with almost complete destruction of the country and its institutions post Bar Kokhba war.

 

[Eloy Craft]

Can you provide a source for this claim? If it's true I want to believe it. Another source would add credibility.

I will say the Pharisees conspired with the Romans to have Yeshua crucified, they even tried to persuade him through legal matters to disannul the seat of Moses.

 

[Eloy Craft]

Do not our rabbi(s) think they sit in the seat of Moses when they teach us Torah? They know they are no priest like Moses.

Exactly. Naturally since they are a developement of Pharisaic tradition and deny Jesus authority from God they would believe they still sit in the seat of authority.

 

[Eloy Craft]

The Jewish religious and legal authority changed and evolved because they had to in order to survive. It had nothing to do with Jesus or Christianity and everything to do with almost complete destruction of the country and its institutions post Bar Kokhba war.

I agree that the Bar Kokhba revolt 135 A.D. ended what began in 70 A.D.

 

[Mercymessianicjudiasm]

Can you provide a source for this claim? If it's true I want to believe it. Another source would add credibility.

John 8:4-8

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Absolutely, when he answered the rich man how to gain eternal life. However, there is no instance where he singles out separating wool from linen. Nor is there any place in the rest of the NT. I cannot elaborate further, as my views are prohibited by the SOP.

What does that (wool/linen) have anything to do with what I said?

 

[Eloy Craft]

John 8:4-8

By that logic every scripture that records Jesus saying"it is written, but I say" would mean Jesus Himself anulled the seat of Moses by saying it.

How can you claim that this trap they lay for Jesus is the Pharisees submitting to His authority? There is no reason I see that the scripture you posted substantiates your claim.

I will say the Pharisees conspired with the Romans to have Yeshua crucified, they even tried to persuade him through legal matters to disannul the seat of Moses.

 

[Eloy Craft]

What does that (wool/linen) have anything to do with what I said?

Does the wool/linen symbolize the two covenants as they truly are?

 

[Mercymessianicjudiasm]

By that logic every scripture that records Jesus saying"it is written, but I say" would mean Jesus Himself anulled the seat of Moses by saying it.

How can you claim that this trap they lay for Jesus is the Pharisees submitting to His authority? There is no reason I see that the scripture you posted substantiates your claim.

You do not hear my words. I said the Pharisees sought to make void the commandments of G-d through their traditions (Mark 7:13). They disannul the "seat of Moses " by misquoting it and adding leaven to holy bread (Luke 12:1). Moses taught us to eat "unleavened bread".
I must keep speaking to you with symbols or parables because you are slow to understand. Leaven causes holy bread to become "puffed up", when we should humble ourselves (1 Peter 5:6).

 

[Mercymessianicjudiasm]

Does the wool/linen symbolize the two covenants as they truly are?

No, Moses said we should not wear clothes that linen and wool are woven together. Much in the same way, the ox and donkey should not be yoked together in labor. Both ox and donkey were used in Torah, so were linen and wool.

 

[Eloy Craft]

You do not hear my words. I said the Pharisees sought to make void the commandments of G-d through their traditions (Mark 7:13). They disannul the "seat of Moses " by misquoting it and adding leaven to holy bread (Luke 12:1). Moses taught us to eat "unleavened bread".
I must keep speaking to you with symbols or parables because you are slow to understand. Leaven causes holy bread to become "puffed up", when we should humble ourselves (1 Peter 5:6).

show me a parable of yours or some symbol used to help.me understand. Quote it again and explain to this slow learner it's heavenly message. Know this, you aren't revealing any mysteries of God that my wicked heart needs to approach with caution so go ahead and speak plainly. Your leavened bread comparison fails because it doesn't explain how the Pharisees were using Jesus to anull the seat of Moses.

 

[Mercymessianicjudiasm]

show me a parable of yours or some symbol used to help.me understand. Quote it again and explain to this slow learner it's heavenly message. Know this, you aren't revealing any mysteries of God that my wicked heart needs to approach with caution so go ahead and speak plainly. Your leavened bread comparison fails because it doesn't explain how the Pharisees were using Jesus to anull the seat of Moses.

You keep misunderstanding me; you continue to mix my words to your own deception. I never said I was given you a "heavenly message", I said a parable or symbol. A parable is a earthly story with a higher meaning, but I have given you earthly things; holy bread without leaven. You seem to not comprehend simple earthly things, how can I then explain to you heavenly things (John 3:12)? I said the Pharisees attempted to "disannul" not "annul" the seat of Moses. Disannul and annul are two different words with entirely two different meanings. Much in the same way, you should not wear clothes that linen and wool are woven together (Deuteronomy 22:11).