SDA

[Karola]

There a many avenues for ignorance regarding truth and light. "Sanctify them in Thy Truth - Thy WORD is Truth" John 17. "I am the way the TRUTH and the Life" John 14

1. Many have a Bible and "choose" not to read it. Their choice is not an "excuse" that works with God. they choose to turn from light.
2. Many others have no Bible at all - and for them Romans 1 and Romans 2 come into the picture

Sanctify them in thy truth does not speak of 'sins of ignorance'
Sola scripture states the law is written on the heart by the Holy spirit, it is not written with ink or engraved in stone for the believer.

 

[Karola]

Entertaining but not factual.
The text speaks of forgiveness of sins and no SDA here has argued that you do not get forgiveness of a sin "if you know about the sin".

Please be serious. This is the Bible and in this case - the Gospel. That sort of joking around falls short of reality.

I have been serious, I read one sda member does not believe Christians commit known sin

 

[Karola]

So then "knowing in your mind" that the Bible is the "Word of God" and is "Truth" - your mind would know to read what God has said and to obey.

Once again, sola scripture states the law is not written in ink for the believer, but written on the heart by the Spirit of the living God.

 

[Karola]

"To him that knows to do right - and does it not - to him it is sin" James 4:17

Some people "know" it is right to read the Bible.

Some other people "don't have Bibles".

So then - the case of those who have not bible.

Romans 2:13-16
13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. 14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.

 

[Karola]

N

"To him that knows to do right - and does it not - to him it is sin" James 4:17

Some people "know" it is right to read the Bible.

Some other people "don't have Bibles".

So then - the case of those who have not bible.

Romans 2:13-16
13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. 14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.

Once again, the law is not written in ink for the believer, but by the spirit of the living God on believers hearts. That is what sola scripture states.
BTW
I cannot find any translation of the bible that says
Through the law you may or may not become conscious of sin
So your view is not sola scripture on that either, is it

 

[mmksparbud]

I have been serious, I read one sda member does not believe Christians commit known sin

There you go again. Christians do commit known sins---If they know to do right and do it not--than it is sin. Sinning through ignorance is not yet accredited to them as sin, if they do not know it is a sin! If they know and keep o doing it--it is sin. For some--there can be a little bit of time from the time of their ignorance to the time that they have been shown their sin. Some Christians will block out the leading of the Holy Spirit through their own stubbornness, their refusal to give up what they have been show to be sin. They will justify that they do not feel they are sinning. There was a thread not too long ago---Christians going to church---naked. They felt there was nothi8nbg wrong with mixed nudity and attending services in the nude. The Holy Spirit didn't tell them it is wrong, therefore it is not wrong. The bible did not say anywhere "do not go around naked' so therefore they can do it. Many Christians agreed with them.

 

[Karola]

There you go again. Christians do commit known sinssin. .

I agree with you

 

[Karola]

There you go again. Christians do commit known sins---If they know to do right and do it not--than it is sin. Sinning through ignorance is not yet accredited to them as sin, if they do not know it is a sin! If they know and keep o doing it--it is sin. For some--there can be a little bit of time from the time of their ignorance to the time that they have been shown their sin. Some Christians will block out the leading of the Holy Spirit through their own stubbornness, their refusal to give up what they have been show to be sin. They will justify that they do not feel they are sinning. There was a thread not too long ago---Christians going to church---naked. They felt there was nothi8nbg wrong with mixed nudity and attending services in the nude. The Holy Spirit didn't tell them it is wrong, therefore it is not wrong. The bible did not say anywhere "do not go around naked' so therefore they can do it. Many Christians agreed with them.

Please give me a verse of scripture from the new covenant, not the old one where it state Christians commit sins of ignorance in relation to the law

 

[Karola]

Now listen, you who say, ‘Today or tomorrow we will go to this or that city, spend a year there, carry on business and make money.’ 14 Why, you do not even know what will happen tomorrow. What is your life? You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes. 15 Instead, you ought to say, ‘If it is the Lord’s will, we will live and do this or that.’ 16 As it is, you boast in your arrogant schemes. All such boasting is evil. 17 If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn’t do it, it is sin for them.
James4:13-17

The above is not concerning breaking the Ten Commandments(as sda belief is being discussed). What is sin for one person concerning law written on their mind and placed on their heart is the same for all, for it is the same law.
If you know you should do something God wants you personally to do, and you do not know it, you can be said to commit sin by not doing what God specifically wants you the individual to do

 

[mmksparbud]

Now listen, you who say, ‘Today or tomorrow we will go to this or that city, spend a year there, carry on business and make money.’ 14 Why, you do not even know what will happen tomorrow. What is your life? You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes. 15 Instead, you ought to say, ‘If it is the Lord’s will, we will live and do this or that.’ 16 As it is, you boast in your arrogant schemes. All such boasting is evil. 17 If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn’t do it, it is sin for them.
James4:13-17

The above is not concerning breaking the Ten Commandments(as sda belief is being discussed). What is sin for one person concerning law written on their mind and placed on their heart is the same for all, for it is the same law.
If you know you should do something God wants you personally to do, and you do not know it, you can be said to commit sin by not doing what God specifically wants you the individual to do

So you agree it is perfectly fine to conduct worship services in the nude and for Christians to be in nudist colonies?

 

[Karola]

So you agree it is perfectly fine to conduct worship services in the nude and for Christians to be in nudist colonies?

Where did I state that?

 

[mmksparbud]

Where did I state that?

I am asking.

 

[Karola]

I am asking.

I am here discussing the bible, not individuals or groups that may claim to be led of the Holy Spirit in what they do. Just because some may claim to be led of the Holy Spirit when they are not, does not change biblical truth.
I am discussing your belief Christians can sin in ignorance, I would like you to give me scripture from the new covenant that states that.
I am also noting, that though sola scripture states the law is not written in ink, or engraved on stone, sda members believe you have to read what is written in ink to know what that law is. That is not sola scripture. And, I originally joined this debate, as one sda member supported the view, the law may or may not make you conscious of sin, in relation to the Ten Commandments, in support of catholics concerning what he perceives to be their breaking of the Ten Commandments. That is not sola scripture either

 

[mmksparbud]

I am here discussing the bible, not individuals or groups that may claim to be led of the Holy Spirit in what they do. Just because some may claim to be led of the Holy Spirit when they are not, does not change biblical truth.
I am discussing your belief Christians can sin in ignorance, I would like you to give me scripture from the new covenant that states that.
I am also noting, that though sola scripture states the law is not written in ink, or engraved on stone, sda members believe you have to read what is written in ink to know what that law is. That is not sola scripture. And, I originally joined this debate, as one sda member supported the view, the law may or may not make you conscious of sin, in relation to the Ten Commandments, in support of catholics concerning what he perceives to be their breaking of the Ten Commandments. That is not sola scripture either

It is their contention that the Holy Spirit is leading them---this is still on topic and still about the bible for they do not believe they are under the law and therefore why shouldn't this be OK--it is the same principle--they are not under the law--they are led by the spirit--so why not then?

Sola scriptura (Latin ablative, "by Scripture alone") is the Protestant Christian doctrine that the Bible is the supreme authority in all matters of doctrine and practice. Sola scriptura does not deny that other authorities govern Christian life and devotion, but sees them all as subordinate to and corrected by the written word of God.


This ends up going in circles--Whether they are written in the heart or in ink---they are written and are to be kept.

at_5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Luk_16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
The sabbath will still be kept in heaven.

 

[Karola]

It is their contention that the Holy Spirit is leading them---this is still on topic and still about the bible for they do not believe they are under the law and therefore why shouldn't this be OK--it is the same principle--they are not under the law--they are led by the spirit--so why not then?

Sola scriptura (Latin ablative, "by Scripture alone") is the Protestant Christian doctrine that the Bible is the supreme authority in all matters of doctrine and practice. Sola scriptura does not deny that other authorities govern Christian life and devotion, but sees them all as subordinate to and corrected by the written word of God.


This ends up going in circles--Whether they are written in the heart or in ink---they are written and are to be kept.

at_5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Luk_16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
The sabbath will still be kept in heaven.

If you believe in sola scripture, the law is not now written in ink for the believer, but by the Spirit of the living God on tablets of human hearts.
If you have no scripture that states you can commit sins of ignorance under the new covenant, or scripture that states, through the law you may or you may not be conscious of sin, you are not following sola scripture are you.

 

[mmksparbud]

If you believe in sola scripture, the law is not now written in ink for the believer, but by the Spirit of the living God on tablets of human hearts.
If you have no scripture that states you can commit sins of ignorance under the new covenant, or scripture that states, through the law you may or you may not be conscious of sin, you are not following sola scripture are you.

Sola scriptura--the bible is the ultimate authority----Jesus said :Mat_5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Luk_16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

Rev_14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Rev_22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Now--are you going to answer the question---Is it sin or not to conduct worship services in the nude and for Christians to be in nudist colonies?? I will have to assume that you agree that this is not sin or you would have said it is. I have an agree on this statement--made by the proponent for this being no sin on that thread. If you agree that it is no sin then the Holy Spirit is guiding them in this.

 

[Karola]

Sola scriptura--the bible is the ultimate authority----Jesus said :Mat_5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Luk_16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

Rev_14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Rev_22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Now--are you going to answer the question---Is it sin or not to conduct worship services in the nude and for Christians to be in nudist colonies?? I will have to assume that you agree that this is not sin or you would have said it is. I have an agree on this statement--made by the proponent for this being no sin on that thread. If you agree that it is no sin then the Holy Spirit is guiding them in this.

I told you, I am not here to discuss individual groups that may say many surprising things. I am here to discusss the bible. Concerning Rev22:14&14:12, don't forget, in one post of yours I read, you wrote that people who go to church are a bunch of sinners/lawbreakers.
About Luke16:17, how many of the 613 OT laws do you follow?

 

[Karola]

Sola scriptura--the bible is the ultimate authority----Jesus said :Mat_5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Luk_16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

Rev_14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Rev_22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Now--are you going to answer the question---Is it sin or not to conduct worship services in the nude and for Christians to be in nudist colonies?? I will have to assume that you agree that this is not sin or you would have said it is. I have an agree on this statement--made by the proponent for this being no sin on that thread. If you agree that it is no sin then the Holy Spirit is guiding them in this.

Why do you pick and choose which sola scripture you follow? The law is not written in ink for the believer, but on tablets of human hearts by the Holy Spirit
Scripture does not state new covenant believers can commit sins of ignorance, it only states that concerning the old covenant
Scripture does not state you may or you may not be conscious of sin through the law.
If you want to follow sola scripture, why believe things that contradict what sola scripture states?

 

[mmksparbud]

I told you, I am not here to discuss individual groups that may say many surprising things. I am here to discusss the bible. Concerning Rev22:14&14:12, don't forget, in one post of yours, you wrote that people who go to church are a bunch of sinners/lawbreakers.
About Luke16:17, how many of the 613 OT laws do you follow?

If you are going to discuss this at well---then discuss it--I have asked you a question that goes to your not under the law and following the Holy Spirit stand--so you do agree with them--Ok--you certainly are not disagreeing. So worshipping God in the nude and joining nudist colonies is being led by the Holy Spirit. This is biblical as there is nothing in the bible that states specifically that they should not do it. Thank you. I do suggest that the next worship service you go to, you put a hanky down on your seat. Can't be too careful nowadays.

And everyone is a sinner. So therefore, all churches are houses full of sinners---looking for salvation.
The commandments----are the 10--this has been stated several times already, The 10 were the only ones that God wrote on stone with His own hand and they were the only ones to be kept in the Ark, the rest of the law was called the law of Moses and those were the Levitical laws and they were to be kept outside the ark. The Ark was the representation of the throne of God in heaven and where He came to in the tabernacle. His throne is on those commandments--they are who He is. The first 4 are the our duty to God, the last 6 our duty to man----which is why Jesus said this:
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments HANG all the law and the prophets.

 

[Karola]

If you are going to discuss this at well---then discuss it--I have asked you a question that goes to your not under the law and following the Holy Spirit stand--so you do agree with them--Ok--you certainly are not disagreeing. So worshipping God in the nude and joining nudist colonies is being led by the Holy Spirit. This is biblical as there is nothing in the bible that states specifically that they should not do it. Thank you. I do suggest that the next worship service you go to, you put a hanky down on your seat. Can't be too careful nowadays.

And everyone is a sinner. So therefore, all churches are houses full of sinners---looking for salvation.
The commandments----are the 10--this has been stated several times already, The 10 were the only ones that God wrote on stone with His own hand and they were the only ones to be kept in the Ark, the rest of the law was called the law of Moses and those were the Levitical laws and they were to be kept outside the ark. The Ark was the representation of the throne of God in heaven and where He came to in the tabernacle. His throne is on those commandments--they are who He is. The first 4 are the our duty to God, the last 6 our duty to man----which is why Jesus said this:
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments HANG all the law and the prophets.

I don't mind what conclusions you draw about something I said I am not here to discuss.
Sola scripture declares the law is written in the heart by the Spirit of the living God
Sola scripture declares through the law we become conscious of sin. it does not say through the law you may or may not be conscious of sin. I can tell you, I have never had any consciousness of sin by not following a Saturday sabbath. So if that law is written in believers minds and placed on their hearts, according to sola scripture you would have to believe I could not be a Christian
But here is your problem. Your denomination accepts as Christians people who have no consciousness of sin about not following a Saturday sabbath, so you have to jettison sola scripture, rather than admit your church is in error. I guess it shows which is more important