SDA

Before deciding if any group is a cult, I'd first have to see and agree to the definition of cult, and then by that definition, determine if the group fits those categories. I have a lot of issues with SDA doctrine and believe that some of it just outright false and misleading and to some degree, harmful, but at the same time, I know SDA *people* who have a genuine love for Jesus and are simply worshiping him in the best way they can at any given time, and I wouldn't fault them for that.

NW82 said:

Correct based on Jewish law. However if any SDA drives to their place of worship they are breaking the sabbath, because driving, biking, blading, skateboarding or other device-driven means of transportation are prohibited on Shabbat, Jews walk rather than commute to synagogue. However, even walking on Shabbat has its limits.

Jewish law sets the maximum walking range from one’s city to 2,000 cubits (3,049.5 feet, 0.596 miles (960 meters). [However, this measurement starts 70 2/3 cubits (112.24 ft.) from the city limits.] Practically speaking, this means that you may not walk a straight line more than .598 miles (3161.74 ft.) in any direction in the wilds outside your city limits.

"City limits" are not defined by the map you carry in your glove compartment.

According to halachah, unless there is more than 70 2/3 cubits between one house and the next, all contiguous housing is considered to be part of the same city. Therefore at times it would be permitted to walk even from one city to the next, as long as the whole way is populated.

The keeping of the Sabbath is either done correctly by Jewish law or it's wrong...or you can take what Romans states on the Sabbath and know that doing this is no longer required.

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Hello NW82,

The way you are trying to describe the Sabbath here is not really according to the scriptures. There were no cars in the days of Jesus. On the Sabbath many travelled to the Synagogues to hear the Word of God and meet together in fellowship.

In the days of Jesus the religious teachers of the day had placed so many man made traditions around Sabbath keeping that it had become a burden to the people. It was though in their eyes MANKIND was made for the Sabbath. It was so bad in fact that these religious teachers were constantly looking for ways to accuse Jesus of breaking the Sabbath (Matt 12:1-2; 10; Mark 3:2'; Luke 6:1-2).

Jesus rebuked these religious teachers by saying that the Sabbath was made for MAN and NOT MAN for the SABBATH (Mark 2:27 and that he was the CREATOR or LORD of the Sabbath (Mark 2:28) and it was LAWFUL to do GOOD on the SABBATH (Matt 12:12)

Jesus did God's WORK on the Sabbath and so should we everyday but God's WORK is not the work we are commanded NOT to do on God's Sabbath for it is lawful to do GOOD on the Sabbath.

Have you not read what David did, when he was hungry, and they that were with him; How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the showbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them who were with him, but only for the priests?

Or have you not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless? Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? How much then is a man better than a sheep? Therefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.

GOD'S 4TH COMMANDMENT

EXODUS 20:8-11
8, Remember the SABBATH DAY, to KEEP IT HOLY. <Why?> Because God made it Holy for mankind and commands us to keep it as a Holy day)
9, Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work:
10, But the SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: <WHY>
11, For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the SEVENTH DAY: wherefore the LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH, and HALLOWED IT.

Doing GOD'S WORK is NOT what the 4th Commandment is talking about please read it.

God's 4th Commandments says we are NOT to do OUR OWN WORK. Yep NO secular business or paid work, no unnecessary domestic work, no buying and selling, shopping. This can be done on the other days of the week. God has made the SEVENTH DAY a HOLY DAY and we are to REST in HIM by FAITH in the LORD of the SABBATH. This is the 4th Commandment and one of the God's 10.

NW82 said:

The one question I have for SDA is the sabbath. How is it observed? It is observed all day Saturday, because biblically that is incorrect?

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Hello NW82, good question. Here is how I understand it from God's WORD.

HOW DO WE KEEP THE SABBATH?

WHAT DOES GOD'S 4TH COMMANDMENT SAY?

EXODUS 20:8-11
[8], Remember the SABBATH DAY, to KEEP IT HOLY. <Why?> Because God made it Holy for mankind and commands us to keep it as a Holy day)
[9], Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work:
[10], But the SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: <WHY>
[11], For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the SEVENTH DAY: wherefore the LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH, and HALLOWED IT.

WHAT DAY IS GOD'S SABBATH?

v10 The SEVENTH DAY of the week. (Saturday)

WHEN DOES THE SEVENTH DAY OF THE WEEK START (God's time not ours)?

GENESIS 1:4-5
[4], And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
[5], And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

A day in God's time is the night (darkness) and the light make up one day. The DAY in God's WORD starts at SUNSET and ends the following SUNSET. So God's 4th Commandment Sabbath would start Friday at SUNSET and end Saturday at SUNSET.

ALL UNECCESSARY WORK TO BE DONE BEFORE FRIDAY SUNSET

EXODUS 16:22-23
[22], And it came to pass, that on the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for one man: and all the rulers of the congregation came and told Moses.
[23], And he said to them, This is that which the LORD has said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath to the LORD: bake that which you will bake to day, and seethe that you will seethe; and that which remains over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.

MARK 15:42, And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath

The preparation day is the 6th day of the week. This includes preparing to stop all business and secular work as well as any domestic work; cooking, cleaning; shopping, buying and selling that can be done on any other day of the week.

IT IS LAWFUL TO DO GOOD ON THE SABBATH?

MATTHEW 12:5-12
[5], Or have you not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?
[6], But I say to you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.
[7], But if you had known what this means, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, you would not have condemned the guiltless.
[8], For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day
[9], And when he was departed from there, he went into their synagogue:
[10], And, behold, there was a man who had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him.
[11], And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?
[12], How much then is a man better than a sheep? Therefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.

MARK 2:27, And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath

It is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.

WHAT IS LAWFUL ON GOD'S SABBATH?

1. Remembering the creator and his creation (Exod 20:8-11)
2. Rest from all unnecessary work (Ecodus 20:10-11)
3. Doing good (Matt 12:12)
4. Prayer (Acts 16:13; Matt 21:13)
5. Worship the creator (Isaiah 58:13-14; Exodus 34:14; 1 KING 9:6; Revelation 14:6-12)

Song, praise, bible study, helping others, preaching the gospel, resting, prayer, seeking God, remembering the creator and his creation. Walking in nature, going to church with like minded believers. (too many scriptures)

WHAT IS NOT LAWFUL ON GOD'S SABBATH?

WORK; all business and secular work as well as any domestic work; cooking, cleaning; shopping, buying and selling that can be done on any other day of the week and anything to do with work (Exodus 20:8-11; Exodus 16:22-23; Matthew 21:13).

Hope this helps

Danthemailman said:

Brother Anderson was a member of the SDA Church for 33 years and was taught the SDA Church was the "remnant church" and was the one church entrusted with the "truth" for the last days. To his utter astonishment and amazement, when he began studying the Bible instead of Ellen White's books, he made the shocking discovery that SDA truth is different from Biblical truth. He found that some SDA teachings are not based upon Scripture at all but upon tradition, conjecture of the early pioneers, and statements made by the prophetess Ellen White.

Bible Truth Versus Adventist Truth - Dangers of Seventh-day Adventism
Bible Truth Versus Adventist Truth - Mark of the Beast
Bible Truth Versus Adventist Truth - Ellen White

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This post is a great example of misinformation and lies sadly. I would challenge the poster to point people to God's WORD instead of the words of website over the Word of God. Please bring any claim you have and let's compare it to scripture. There is nothing hidden that shall not be revealed when it is brought to the light of God's Word. Only God's WORD is true and we should believe and follow it.

NW82 said:

Correct based on Jewish law. However if any SDA drives to their place of worship they are breaking the sabbath, because driving, biking, blading, skateboarding or other device-driven means of transportation are prohibited on Shabbat, Jews walk rather than commute to synagogue. However, even walking on Shabbat has its limits.

Jewish law sets the maximum walking range from one’s city to 2,000 cubits (3,049.5 feet, 0.596 miles (960 meters). [However, this measurement starts 70 2/3 cubits (112.24 ft.) from the city limits.] Practically speaking, this means that you may not walk a straight line more than .598 miles (3161.74 ft.) in any direction in the wilds outside your city limits.

The keeping of the Sabbath is either done correctly by Jewish law or it's wrong...or you can take what Romans states on the Sabbath and know that doing this is no longer required.

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Here is a site concerning the restrictions for Jews today in observance of the Sabbath.

Jewish Practice Mitzvahs & Traditions Shabbat Shabbat Info Shabbat Rest
The Shabbat Laws

*snip*

The Shabbat Laws

The Shabbat laws are quite complex, requiring careful study and a qualified teacher. At first, it's often overwhelming and seems like an impossible number of restrictions. But spending shabbat with others who are shabbat observant will show you that eventually, you, too, will become comfortable with the Shabbat laws, as long as you realize that becoming shomer shabbat (shabbat observant) is a gradual process rather than an overnight transformation. You will also recognize that the wealth off details provides for a lifetime of scholarship—even those who have been keeping Shabbat for years find that there is always more to learn on this subject.

Following is a brief summary of some of the Shabbat laws you are most likely to encounter.

Let's start with some basic activities from which we refrain on Shabbat:

• writing, erasing, and tearing;
• business transactions;
• driving or riding in cars or other vehicles;
• shopping;
• using the telephone;
• turning on or off anything which uses electricity, including lights, radios, television, computer, air-conditioners and alarm clocks;
• cooking, baking or kindling a fire;
• gardening and grass-mowing;
• doing laundry;

Does all this mean that Shabbat is somewhat of a miserable affair, where we sit hungry in the dark? Not at all. It simply means that we have to prepare for Shabbat in advance, so that, on the contrary, we celebrate in luxury, without doing any of the actual work, on Shabbat.

Muktzeh

Many objects have been designated by our sages as muktzeh--we are forbidden from moving them, in some cases, even for activities permitted on Shabbat. Muktzeh may not be moved directly with one's hand or even indirectly with an object (such as sweeping it away with a broom). However, muktzeh may be moved in a very awkward, unusual manner, with other parts of the body, e.g.: with one's teeth or elbow, or by blowing on it.

LittleLambofJesus said:

Yeah, food topics are also popular hot topic on CF

Are Christians allowed to eat pork under the New Covenant?

1. *
   Yes! It is now lawful under the NC!
   89 vote(s) 73.6%
2. No! It is still unlawful under the NC
   19 vote(s) 15.7%
3. I am not sure
   3 vote(s) 2.5%
4. Other
   12 vote(s) 9.9%

Why Christians do eat pork despite its...

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You do know that is was lawful to Noah don't you? It is to us again. It was only unlawful to the Jews because of a spiritual significance - separation of God's people from the world, and in their case Gentiles. God had them under a tutorship to teach them God's ways. But when the gospel went to the Gentiles, starting with Cornelius, God's people were no longer separated from Gentiles, but Gentiles became open to become part of God's people.

LittleLambofJesus said:

edit to add: I do not view the LDS, JWs or the SDA's as "cults".........

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I agree. Though I would never become one of any of them.

LittleLambofJesus said:

Muktzeh

Many objects have been designated by our sages as muktzeh--we are forbidden from moving them, in some cases, even for activities permitted on Shabbat. Muktzeh may not be moved directly with one's hand or even indirectly with an object (such as sweeping it away with a broom). However, muktzeh may be moved in a very awkward, unusual manner, with other parts of the body, e.g.: with one's teeth or elbow, or by blowing on it.

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I see straining at gnats is still alive and well.

I just wish Adventists didn't force the Wendy's near the downtown hospital to not have bacon on their burgers. I mean, what's so bad about bacon?

If keeping Jewish law is so important, why not go whole hog and cut your member off? (Galatians 5).

FireDragon76 said:

I see straining at gnats is still alive and well.

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Yeah. Perhaps a little of this also:

Matthew 7:1-5

Do SDA care about Christian History?

NW82 said:

Correct based on Jewish law. However if any SDA drives to their place of worship they are breaking the sabbath, because driving, biking, blading, skateboarding or other device-driven means of transportation are prohibited on Shabbat, Jews walk rather than commute to synagogue. However, even walking on Shabbat has its limits.

Jewish law sets the maximum walking range from one’s city to 2,000 cubits (3,049.5 feet, 0.596 miles (960 meters). [However, this measurement starts 70 2/3 cubits (112.24 ft.) from the city limits.] Practically speaking, this means that you may not walk a straight line more than .598 miles (3161.74 ft.) in any direction in the wilds outside your city limits.

"City limits" are not defined by the map you carry in your glove compartment.

According to halachah, unless there is more than 70 2/3 cubits between one house and the next, all contiguous housing is considered to be part of the same city. Therefore at times it would be permitted to walk even from one city to the next, as long as the whole way is populated.

The keeping of the Sabbath is either done correctly by Jewish law or it's wrong...or you can take what Romans states on the Sabbath and know that doing this is no longer required.

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Also, who says this is the corerct way to keep the Sabbath? (Scripture please).

David Cabrera said:

Do SDA care about Christian History?

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Sort of, but they were influenced by restorationist type sentiments.

David Cabrera said:

Do SDA care about Christian History?

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Yes David. Does History trump the Word of God? Nope. The problem is there is so many variations of history as well and many a bias of historical events depending on who is writing it.

Natsumi Lam said:

They may have thhe conviction but

1. May not be listening

2. Willfully not listening

3. Have trouble listening

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When I went to an sda church to please a friend, I went with an open mind. But I witnessed something I have never seen in any other church I have ever been to. Members of the church laughing as they took the Lords name in vain, apparently unaware they were breaking the ten commandments the people there insisted you must obey. It was at that point, I became deeply concerned

1stcenturylady said:

You do know that is was lawful to Noah don't you? It is to us again. It was only unlawful to the Jews because of a spiritual significance - separation of God's people from the world, and in their case Gentiles. God had them under a tutorship to teach them God's ways. But when the gospel went to the Gentiles, starting with Cornelius, God's people were no longer separated from Gentiles, but Gentiles became open to become part of God's people.

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Eating swine was never lawful to Noah

Natsumi Lam said:

Is this outlined in the Word or some other source?

Is that source cosidered at the same authority as the word?

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Ask the Jews as it is from their own OT/OC scriptures..........
Also, get them to read our NT/NC book of Revelation, and all things will be clear to them

LUKE 21 MATTHEW 24 OLIVET DISCOURSE CONTROVERSY [Poll Thread]

2 Corinthians 3 BLB

2 Corinthians 3
12 Therefore having such a hope, we use great boldness,
13 and not as Moses would put a veil over his face for the sons of Israel not to look intently into the end of that fading away.

14 But their minds were hardened; for until the present day, the same veil remains at the reading of the old covenant, not being lifted, which is being removed in Christ. 15 But unto this day, when Moses shall be read, a veil lies over their heart. 16 But whenever one shall have turned to the Lord, the veil is taken away.

Dkh587 said:

Eating swine was never lawful to Noah

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Of course it was. You really should look up the scriptures before posting. Noah was commanded to bring 7 of the clean animals onto the ark because only clean animals were used for sacrifices, and they had to do a lot of sacrificing.

Genesis 9:3 Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. I have given you all things, even as the green herbs. 4 But you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood.

Remember this law was for the animals as well as man. The animals only ate vegetation until then, as their instincts are from God.

Genesis 2:9 And out of the ground the Lord God made every tree grow that is pleasant to the sight and good for food.

1 Timothy 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving; 5 for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

Separating the Jews from the Gentiles: Leviticus 20:25 You shall therefore distinguish between clean animals and unclean, between unclean birds and clean, and you shall not make yourselves abominable by beast or by bird, or by any kind of living thing that creeps on the ground, which I have separated from you as unclean. 26 And you shall be holy to Me, for I the Lord am holy, and have separated you from the peoples, that you should be Mine.


Acts 10:14 But Peter said, “Not so, Lord! For I have never eaten anything common or unclean.” 15 And a voice spoke to him again the second time, “What God has cleansed you must not call common.” 16 This was done three times. And the object was taken up into heaven again.

1 Corinthians 6:12 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not helpful. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. 13 Foods for the stomach and the stomach for foods, but God will destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for sexual immorality but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body.

Colossians 2:16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. 18 Let no one cheat you of your reward, taking delight in false humility and worship of angels, intruding into those things which he has not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, 19 and not holding fast to the Head, from whom all the body, nourished and knit together by joints and ligaments, grows with the increase that is from God. 20 Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations— 21 “Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle,” 22 which all concern things which perish with the using—according to the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.