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bekkilyn

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I agree with SDA and other groups who suggest that the numbers in scripture have meaning. Even SDA believe that the number seven represents perfection or completeness, for example. However, I don't always agree with every other group on how these numbers are used.

You're only reading "let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years" in only one way and are fully convinced it is right without considering that there are other ways of interpreting this verse. While said "let them be for signs, etc." he *didn't* say he was going to do all of those things *for* people. It's like he handed people a box of legos and let them construct the things they wanted and needed, using the imaginations and brains that he gave them.

We also tend to think of time as being linear, but mathematically, that's not always the case either. For any group to claim to know "God's time" even for this earth, presumes far too much, as we really haven't even figured out our own. When you do think mathematically and you learn more advanced math and mathematical theory, you begin to realize just how little you really know to the point where it is almost nothing, and very likely *is* nothing compared to God.
 
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bekkilyn

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So maybe governments who give everyone a day off should just pick, say a Wednesday, so that every religious group (except for maybe Baptists) would be equally unhappy.
 
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BobRyan

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BobRyan said:
What day did the NT church do that - each week?

In the first century.

Which day did the New Testament church celebrate, in the first and second centuries?

You seem to be struggling with the answer. Are you wishing to use something other than the actual Bible - for the answer?
 
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BobRyan

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What you call sola scripture is reciting the
letter

It is called "Reading"

notice how Jesus does this very thing in Mark 7:6-13 - quoting the text - just as Paul does in Hebrews 3.

Protestants like reading the Bible and the quoting the Bible as "proof" for accepting true doctrine and rejecting false doctrine.
 
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Karola

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Seventh day Adventists were only convicted to observe a specific Saturday sabbath by reading law written in ink. Scripture tells us that is not where the law is for the believer. Not one sda member instinctively believed they should observe a Saturday sabbath, which prove the Spirit did not write that law as written in the heart of believers. I repeat, you only thought you should obey it by looking to where the law is not for believers!
 
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Karola

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For our sda brethren:

You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts. 2cor3:3

This is the covenant that I will make with the people of Israel
after that time,’ declares the Lord.
‘I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.

Jeremiah31:33

This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel
after that time, declares the Lord.
I will put my laws in their minds
and write them on their hearts.

Heb8:10

This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.


17 Then he adds:

‘Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.
 
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Karola

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You can talk about it as much as you want, but the facts still remain the same

The law for the believer is not a law written in ink, but one written in the heart by the Spirit of the living God. The new covenant stands on two core points. The law is written in your mind and placed on your heart by the Spirit, and your sins and lawless deeds will be remembered no more. No seventh day Adventist instinctively knew from within they should follow a seventh day Sabbath, they only came to that conclusion by reading what is written in ink in the bible. That is not where the law is for the believer under the new covenant. Which proves, the Spirit of the living God did not write on any believers mind and place on any believers heart they should follow a Saturday Sabbath, for if he did, they would know it, they would not have to look to where the law is not placed for a believer to know it
Therefore, as the Spirit of the living God did not write that law in yours or anyone elses mind or heart it becomes a ''disputable matter'' You are entitled to take whichever view you choose. Paul wrote of such:

Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarrelling over disputable matters Rom14:1

Two are mentioned in the chapter:
One person considers one day more sacred/holy than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. verse 5

I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean verse 14

Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a person to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. verse20
 
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bekkilyn

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It's interesting how even without the Spirit, an Atheist would instinctively know it is wrong to murder or steal, but would have no instinct whatsoever about setting up a weekly ritual on Saturday to observe a sabbath. When such Atheists are born again and receive the Spirit and become Christians, they still know it is wrong not to murder or steal, and loving others would come naturally through the Spirit, but would still have no knowledge of setting up a weekly sabbath ritual unless someone specifically informs them and frightens them into doing it based on cherry-picked scripture verses and threats of eternal condemnation.
 
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mmksparbud

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God has His Spirit everywhere:

God prepares Northwest Alaska

In 1867, God was working within the hearts of Inupiat people while the United States negotiated the purchase of Alaska from Russia. Although that contract was ridiculed and called Steward’s Folly because Secretary of State Steward bargained for what was termed a worthless frozen wilderness, God was instructing an Inupiat native (popularly called Eskimos) named Maniilaq in changes that would forever affect these people. God esteems them more precious than minerals and petroleum an industrialized society coveted.
This prophet Maniilaq knew God was speaking and although he was belittled and scorned, a time would come when his contemporaries understood unseen forces loved them. These Eskimos would soon learn how modern conveniences could lessen their everyday cares and about a cosmic conflict where choices have eternal consequences.

A day to keep sacred

One day in seven, later known to be Saturday, the Sabbath, Maniilaq’s beating drum echoed in the hostile wilderness calling his people to a place where he foretold of unimagined changes. Like the children of Israel elevating a serpentine pole in the wilderness, Maniilaq elevated a staff with a dead animal’s skin attached indicating Saturday was a sacred day. It was also time for Eskimo people to hear of God’s plans. It was God’s Son whose body was also elevated upon what was called the death on a tree. His sacrificial death became the substitutional cloak for humankind’s unworthiness.

Some revelations are still future

Maniilaq’s revelations were and are for everyone. When associated with Bible prophecies, they reveal God’s providential care for His entire creation. This allows humanity to prepare for coming food shortages, higher ocean levels after glacial ice melts, and an apocalyptic climax to scriptures that none can escape.

Lifestyle, social and religious change

In the mid 1800s these Eskimos knew nothing of the government to the south that purchased their homeland. Never hearing of a white man, the Ten-Commandments, or Jesus, yet similar to John the Baptist’s mission to Israel, the prophet Maniilaq prepared Eskimos for important lifestyle and social changes. Terror had gripped natives of other Inupiat tribes who first saw white-faced men yet those who heard Maniilaq were composed.
In a wooing manner, God spoke softly to Maniilaq, telling of the Father and Son above who are the Source of intelligence and thought. Then God revealed to him even greater truths.

Natives elsewhere hear of God

Maniilaq’s story reminds us of other visionaries in isolated locations where God similarly prepared natives to receive His Sabbath truth and learn of Christ’s great sacrifice for humanity.

God prepares South America

Perhaps the most famous such case among Sabbath-keeping Christians is the tribe of Davis Indians in South America. Nearly a century ago, Chief Auka was told by a divine being to hang a rope with seven knots, resting weekly on the day of the last knot—this being Saturday. This shining angel introduced them to the seventh-day Sabbath long before Sabbath-keeping Pastor Davis worked with these natives.
They were vegetarians and looked for a white man carrying a book telling about God. So much of Chief Auka’s tribe were already aware of Bible truths. They kept telling Pastor Davis, “We already know this, teach us something new.” This remote tribe is quite civilized today and speaks English fluently.

God prepares African natives

The Bushman Sekuba, an African of the mid 1900s, is another native prophet. A glowing being told him to travel eastward to find the Sabbath-keeping pastor Moyo who had a black book explaining about God. After hiking more than one hundred miles, a cloud appeared in the distance and led him another hundred miles to an Adventist missionary compound. There Sekuba received a Bible (that he could miraculously read). Those at the compound kept a Saturday-Sabbath and possessed the Ellen White, “Testimonies”, as the angel had instructed.

Maniilaq revered God’s Sabbath

Most biographies about Maniilaq are written by Sunday-keepers. These chronicles report he observed one-day-in-seven, thinking it was Sunday. Quakers were the first to evangelize the Inupiat; sometime afterward they changed to Sunday observance.

Inupiat elders hold Maniilaq in the highest regard as a true prophet of God. To preserve his history for future generations, in 1978 Eskimos who knew of Maniilaq were invited to speak at The Nana Elders Conference. This meeting was transcribed and is similar to our Bible that preserves ancient history of God’s dealings with humanity.
In this document, an Eskimo named Aqsivaabruk is quoted as remembering earlier years when they kept Saturday sacred because Maniilaq rested every seventh-day.
Initially the Inupiat were confused on Maniilaq resting. Accusing him of being lazy, he responded by saying he kept the commandments of his heavenly Grandfather. Then Aqsivaabruk recalls how his people later followed the teachings of those who changed their Sabbath to Sunday.
How easy it is to adopt the teachings of authority figures in the church who, like the priests of Jesus’ day, “nail jots and tittles” of God’s law to the cross (Matthew 5:18). It is imperative we do not follow the traditions of men but obey Christ who said: “But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men” (Matthew 15:9).
 
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mmksparbud

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Beavers don't work on saturdays - Bing video



At work years ago--there was a lady that raised chickens. She would bring in eggs and give them to the staff. She was a lovely Catholic lady. she knew I was SDA--one day she offered me some--
"I'm so sorry---but I only use eggs that come from SDA chickens!"
"How can you tell??!! The look on her face was priceless---total shock.
"They don't lay on the Sabbath---but twice on Sunday!"---If I only had a camera!! I couldn't hold it and I busted out laughing---she almost threw the eggs at me.
I just have a warped sense of humor sometimes.
 
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BobRyan

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God's Word contains the moral law of God in written form - as even the "Baptist Confession of Faith" and the "Westminster Confession of Faith" admit when it comes to the glaringly obvious point - about the Bible Sabbath. This is true of both to Bible-Sabbath keeping Christians and non-Sabbath-keeping Christians.

1. Not one Catholic instinctively believes they should not be bowing down before images.
2. The Bible does say that among pagans the rule is "instinct" in Romans 2:13-16 for they "have no scripture" they do not have "the oracles of God" Rom 3:1-4.
3. But among bible believing Christians - we do have the Word of God in scripture 2Tim 3:16 which is to be used for doctrine and correction - just as Jesus does it in Mark 7:6-13.

More scripture... less "creative writing" please.
 
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BobRyan

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You can talk about it as much as you want, but the facts still remain the same

The law for the believer is not a law written in ink, but one written in the heart by the Spirit

total nonsense - and even the "Baptist Confession of Faith" and the "Westminster Confession of Faith" admit to this glaringly obvious point - obvious both to Bible-Sabbath keeping Christians and non-Sabbath-keeping Christians.
 
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BobRyan

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It's interesting how even without the Spirit, an Atheist would instinctively know it is wrong to murder ....

but would not know that christians should not bow down before images -- and apparently don't feel bad about taking God's name in vain since they claim it is like taking the Easter Bunny's name in vain.

More scripture -- less creative writing please.
 
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BobRyan

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We enjoy "reading that scripture"-- thanks for posting it.

Even the followers of the "Baptist Confession of Faith" and the "Westminster Confession of Faith" would enjoy reading those scriptures.

All of these agree to "sola scriptura" testing as we see in Acts 17:11 and Mark 7:6-13 so we enjoy the fact that the LAW of God found in scripture is written on the heart by the Holy Spirit as Jeremiah points out in Jeremiah 31:31-33.

Are you familiar with honest exegesis when interpreting the text? Have you heard that "context matters"?
 
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klutedavid

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BobRyan said:
What day did the NT church do that - each week?

In the first century.



You seem to be struggling with the answer. Are you wishing to use something other than the actual Bible - for the answer?
There is evidence both in the New Testament and in church history. That Christians celebrated Sunday as the day that Jesus rose.

The Sabbath day was a day of rest from work.

Sunday was the day that Jesus rose and is a day of celebration.
 
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bekkilyn

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Nice stories, but nothing wide-spread to anywhere near the same degree as people instinctively knowing that murder is wrong, as even Atheists believe. It's also something that can be easily verified by talking to actual, living people practically anywhere in the world vs. reading a questionable account of two or three supposed "prophets" from questionable sources, or from a single set of beavers and one chicken. (I guarantee you the wild chickens where I live do not rest on Saturdays as they are out and about their business *every* day of the week.)
 
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bekkilyn

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but would not know that christians should not bow down before images -- and apparently don't feel bad about taking God's name in vain since they claim it is like taking the Easter Bunny's name in vain.

More scripture -- less creative writing please.

Catholicism is learned behavior, not instinct, regardless of whether or not they do the above things that you claim.
 
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Karola

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God's word states it is not a law written in ink for the believer, but one written on the heart by the Spirit of the living God
 
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Karola

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total nonsense - .

Is this total nonsense?

The law for the believer is not a law written in ink, but one written in the heart by the Spirit:

You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts. 2Cor3:3
 
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