SDA Question

[Airdude]

You have yet to show that the Sabbath was given to anyone except the Jews. I have asked for proof and you haven't provided it.

And you have yet to prove otherwise. Show me in scripture where it says the Sabbath or any of the Ten Commandments were done away with. So far I havn't seent it.

 

[deu58]

Hello Airdude

After sundown Saturday night of course.

Look at the verse again airdude, At the end of the 6th day all Gods work was finished, How could he go back to work if there was no work to do??

yours in Christ
deu 58

 

[deu58]

Hello Airdude

And you have yet to prove otherwise. Show me in scripture where it says the Sabbath or any of the Ten Commandments were done away with. So far I havn't seent it.

Time to wakey wakey!!


2co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious *, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

Ga 4:23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.

Ga 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

Ga 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.


Ga 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

Ga 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

yours in Christ
deu 58

 

[Airdude]

Without the law there is nothing commanded but to remember the sabbath and keep it holy. I could do that by sitting at home and studyin g scripture, going to the zoo and observing God's creation, taking a walk with my kids. Nothing in the Ten Commandments even forbids working on the Sabbath.

Sitting at home, studying scripture, or observing God's creation whether it be at the zoo or anywhere else are just fine and all are very common SDA Sabbath activities. But what part of Exodus 20:8-11 do you not understand?

"Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but He rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy."

Nice try.

 

[Airdude]

Time to wakey wakey!!


2co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious *, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

Ga 4:23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.

Ga 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

Ga 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.


Ga 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

Ga 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

yours in Christ
deu 58

Pardon me, I must still be sleeping. Nothing there does away with the ten commandments. The ceremonial law yes, but the ten commandments, no.

 

[Airdude]

Deu and Flesh,

Here is the opportunity of a lifetime for you! Best of luck to you.



By Joe Kovacs
© 2001 WorldNetDaily.com
One of the longest running disputes in the history of Christianity – Saturday vs. Sunday – is having new life breathed into it with a cash reward of up to $1 million toward a resolution.
A. Jan Marcussen, a Seventh-day Adventist pastor in Illinois, is starting with $50,000 of his own money if someone can produce "a verse from the Holy Bible showing that God commands us to keep holy the first day of the week" – Sunday – "instead of the seventh day" – Saturday – "as is commanded in the Bible."
He says the reward will increase in $25,000 increments each week for 40 consecutive weeks if no one sends him such a verse, with a final cap at $1 million. Read the rest of it at:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=24908

 

[xristos.anesti]

Deu and Flesh,

Here is the opportunity of a lifetime for you! Best of luck to you.



By Joe Kovacs
© 2001 WorldNetDaily.com
One of the longest running disputes in the history of Christianity – Saturday vs. Sunday – is having new life breathed into it with a cash reward of up to $1 million toward a resolution.
A. Jan Marcussen, a Seventh-day Adventist pastor in Illinois, is starting with $50,000 of his own money if someone can produce "a verse from the Holy Bible showing that God commands us to keep holy the first day of the week" – Sunday – "instead of the seventh day" – Saturday – "as is commanded in the Bible."
He says the reward will increase in $25,000 increments each week for 40 consecutive weeks if no one sends him such a verse, with a final cap at $1 million. Read the rest of it at:

[url="http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=24908"]http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=24908[/url]

So, it seems you SDA got smarter last couple of years.

Check this out:

http://members.tripod.com/~Help_for_SDAs/The200Text.htm


Old tricks, my dear SDA friends, old tricks from an old snake through an old witch for an old heresy by the power of the devil, all new made.

 

[deu58]

Deu and Flesh,

Here is the opportunity of a lifetime for you! Best of luck to you.



By Joe Kovacs
© 2001 WorldNetDaily.com
One of the longest running disputes in the history of Christianity – Saturday vs. Sunday – is having new life breathed into it with a cash reward of up to $1 million toward a resolution.
A. Jan Marcussen, a Seventh-day Adventist pastor in Illinois, is starting with $50,000 of his own money if someone can produce "a verse from the Holy Bible showing that God commands us to keep holy the first day of the week" – Sunday – "instead of the seventh day" – Saturday – "as is commanded in the Bible."
He says the reward will increase in $25,000 increments each week for 40 consecutive weeks if no one sends him such a verse, with a final cap at $1 million. Read the rest of it at:

[url="http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=24908"]http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=24908[/url]

This is the little box SDA's always use to try and keep the Sabbath debate hot running, The Cross did away with Ceremonial days period, There is no Saturday is holy or Sunday is holy in the NT covenant today, There are no special holy days at all in the NT, Including thew weekly Sabbath.

Something the SDA's refuse to deal with, Because if they did then they would have no choice but to admit that they are wrong, The word Sabbath is used 60 times in the NT

Never once is it used to teach the day as a mandatory day of worship.

And once it is actually used to show that the Sabbath no longer has the authority in New Testament as it did in the Old,


Mt 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

I am sure you are familiar with this verse,



Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

The Greek word used for Sabbath in Matt 12:8 is the very same word that is used in Col2:16

savbbaton Sabbaton (sab'-bat-on);
Word Origin: Hebrew, Noun Neuter, Strong #: 4521


the seventh day of each week which was a sacred festival on which the Israelites were required to abstain from all work
the institution of the sabbath, the law for keeping holy every seventh day of the week
a single sabbath, sabbath day
seven days, a week
KJV Word Usage and Count
sabbath day 37
sabbath 22
week 9


That is why using the the period of time that the law was in effect, from Moses to when Jesus said it is finished on the cross to support the SDA Sabbth does not mean a thing, The teaching of the NT supercedes the teaching of the Old,

The Sabbath is plainly taught as a relic of the Old law that passed away at the cross, You can ignore it all you want but it it is still clear what the NT teaches concerning the Sabbath today

yours in Christ
deu 58

 

[Cliff2]

This is the little box SDA's always use to try and keep the Sabbath debate hot running, The Cross did away with Ceremonial days period, There is no Saturday is holy or Sunday is holy in the NT covenant today, There are no special holy days at all in the NT, Including thew weekly Sabbath.

Something the SDA's refuse to deal with, Because if they did then they would have no choice but to admit that they are wrong, The word Sabbath is used 60 times in the NT

Never once is it used to teach the day as a mandatory day of worship.

And once it is actually used to show that the Sabbath no longer has the authority in New Testament as it did in the Old,


Mt 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

I am sure you are familiar with this verse,



Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

The Greek word used for Sabbath in Matt 12:8 is the very same word that is used in Col2:16

savbbaton Sabbaton (sab'-bat-on);
Word Origin: Hebrew, Noun Neuter, Strong #: 4521


the seventh day of each week which was a sacred festival on which the Israelites were required to abstain from all work
the institution of the sabbath, the law for keeping holy every seventh day of the week
a single sabbath, sabbath day
seven days, a week
KJV Word Usage and Count
sabbath day 37
sabbath 22
week 9


That is why using the the period of time that the law was in effect, from Moses to when Jesus said it is finished on the cross to support the SDA Sabbth does not mean a thing, The teaching of the NT supercedes the teaching of the Old,

The Sabbath is plainly taught as a relic of the Old law that passed away at the cross, You can ignore it all you want but it it is still clear what the NT teaches concerning the Sabbath today

yours in Christ
deu 58

It maybe an old question but still no one has come up with the right answer.

We all know why and your attempt is just not good enough, come up with something from the Bible that answers the question.

 

[Cliff2]

Hello Airdude




Time to wakey wakey!!


2co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious *, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

Ga 4:23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.

Ga 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

Ga 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.


Ga 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

Ga 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

yours in Christ
deu 58

Not good enough, try again.

Nothing in there to say the Sabbath has been done away with, nothing in there to say the 7th day is no longer holy.

Why would I want to keep a day that God did not ordain as being holy?

 

[deu58]

Hi Cliff

It maybe an old question but still no one has come up with the right answer.

We all know why and your attempt is just not good enough, come up with something from the Bible that answers the question.

Col2:16 is from the bible cliff and that is exactly how it translates. But considering the 35,000 pages of extra biblical instructions the SDA's deem as necassary to please God I can understand why you think the plain teachings of the bible are not good enough,

As I have said before you follow another gospel, Not the Gospel,

yours in Christ
deu 58

 

[SearchingSDA]

So, if God created man on the sixth day and created the Sabbath and rested on the seventh-day did He not invite His newly created humans who He created in His likeness to join Him?

The fact is that it cannot be proven from scripture that the Sabbath was ever changed from the seventh day.

After creation and before sin did they not have "that perfect sabbath rest" promised by Jesus everyday?

Also, I think it plausible that Moses, writing Genesis with perfect hindsight, was pointing out why God memorialized it in the siniatic covenant.

"2By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done."

(Notice the period at the end of the previous sentence.)

"3Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made. "

When is "Then"?

 

[deu58]

Hi Airdude

The fact is that it cannot be proven from scripture that the Sabbath was ever changed from the seventh day.

No, And nobody has ever tried to,But what can be proved though beyond a shadow of a doubt is that the Sabbath is no longer binding as a necessary commandment from the New Testament covenant we have in Christ today,


1. Commandment 1: Ex 20:3 "You shall have no other gods before me."</B>

[font=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Helvetica]1 Cor 8:5-6 "For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many "gods" and many "lords"), yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live."

1 Cor 12:2 "You know that when you were pagans, somehow or other you were influenced and led astray to mute idols."

Gal 4:8-9 "Formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those who by nature are not gods."

2. Commandment 2: Ex 20:4-6 "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand [ generations] of those who love me and keep my commandments."

1 John 5:21 "Dear children, keep yourselves from idols."

3. Commandment 3: Ex 20:7 "You shall not misuse the name of the LORD your God, for the LORD will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name."

James 2:7 "Are they not the ones who are slandering the noble name of him to whom you belong?"

1 Tim 1:20 "Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme."

4. Commandment 4: Ex 20:8-11 "Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates. For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy."

No Bible text from Acts to Revelation backing this up!

5. Commandment 5: Ex 20:12 "Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the LORD your God is giving you."

Eph 6:2-3 "Honor your father and mother"-which is the first commandment with a promise-"that it may go well with you and that you may enjoy long life on the earth."

6. Commandment 6: Ex 20:13 "You shall not murder."

1 Peter 4:15-16 "If you suffer, it should not be as a murderer or thief or any other kind of criminal, or even as a meddler."

1 John 3:15 "Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life in him."

7. Commandment 7: Ex 20:14 "You shall not commit adultery."

Eph 5:3-4 "But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people."

1 Cor 6:9-10 "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders."

8. Commandment 8: Ex 20:15 "You shall not steal."

1 Peter 4:15-16 "If you suffer, it should not be as a murderer or thief or any other kind of criminal, or even as a meddler."

Eph 4:28 "He who has been stealing must steal no longer, but must work, doing something useful with his own hands, that he may have something to share with those in need."

9. Commandment 9: Ex 20:16 "You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor."

Eph 4:25 "Therefore each of you must put off falsehood and speak truthfully to his neighbor, for we are all members of one body."

10. Commandment 10: Ex 20:17 "You shall not covet your neighbor's house. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his manservant or maidservant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor."

Eph 5:3-4 "But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people."

Eph 5:5 "For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person-such a man is an idolater-has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God."

Col 3:5 "Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry."

[/font] Only 9 of the commandments are taught in the NT as necessary under the New Covenant in Christ,

Days and times and years are taught in the NT as no longer binding on any believer today,


Ac 21:25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.

Ro 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another *: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Ga 4:10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.

Ga 4:11 I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.


Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

And this to is a biblical FACT

yours in Christ
deu 58

 

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

I am seeing the old strawman pop up over and over again. No-one, at least in this thread, is saying that the Sabbath has been changed. You can show via scripture that we are not to work on the Sabbath but you cannot show that we are to worship on the Sabbath. That's one of the main failings in the argument. Even if you manage to show the Sabbath as binding all it means is that we are not to work on that day, it does not show that we are wrong to worship on Sunday. I am off of work on Saturday so I guess I already keep the Sabbath according to the commandment even though I don't think it's binding. The difference is that I have to work overtime I have no problem doing so. deu58 has done a really excellent job of showing via scripture that the Sabbath isn't binding but that won't be accepted by the SDAs in this thread either. The claim that we are trying to change the Sabbath is a strawman as that is not what we are doing. We are not moving the Sabbath to Sunday at all we are saying it's not binding period. I do not claim that there is a commandment to worship on Sunday I simply do so because I am following the example of the Apostles.

If the Sabbath commandment is so important then why do SDAs not care about making other people break the commandment by using utilities, eating out (quite a few do this), driving, watching television, using the internet, and other daily activities? The reason is that they are not celebrating the Sabbath as laid out in scripture but rather as laid out in EGWs writings for which there is no support in scripture. If it really were based in scripture and they really cared about the souls of others they would not cause others to work on the day they claim is holy.

 

[Airdude]

The Cross did away with Ceremonial days period, There is no Saturday is holy or Sunday is holy in the NT covenant today

Yes, the ceremonial laws were done away with at the cross. I have said this many times. The problem here is that the Sabbath is not part of the Ceremonial Law, it is the fourth Commandment in the Moral Law. If you throw out the fourth commandment then you must also throw out the other nine. Then what kind of world would we have?

 

[Airdude]

I do not claim that there is a commandment to worship on Sunday I simply do so because I am following the example of the Apostles.

I also worship on Sunday and Monday and Tuesday...
The Apostles were fine people, but I use Jesus as my ultimate example.

If the Sabbath commandment is so important then why do SDAs not care about making other people break the commandment by using utilities, eating out (quite a few do this), driving, watching television, using the internet, and other daily activities? The reason is that they are not celebrating the Sabbath as laid out in scripture but rather as laid out in EGWs writings for which there is no support in scripture. If it really were based in scripture and they really cared about the souls of others they would not cause others to work on the day they claim is holy.

So are you saying that we should be more like the Amish?
Once again you are resorting to Orthodox Jewish legalism.

 

[Cliff2]

I am seeing the old strawman pop up over and over again. No-one, at least in this thread, is saying that the Sabbath has been changed. You can show via scripture that we are not to work on the Sabbath but you cannot show that we are to worship on the Sabbath. That's one of the main failings in the argument. Even if you manage to show the Sabbath as binding all it means is that we are not to work on that day, it does not show that we are wrong to worship on Sunday. I am off of work on Saturday so I guess I already keep the Sabbath according to the commandment even though I don't think it's binding. The difference is that I have to work overtime I have no problem doing so. deu58 has done a really excellent job of showing via scripture that the Sabbath isn't binding but that won't be accepted by the SDAs in this thread either. The claim that we are trying to change the Sabbath is a strawman as that is not what we are doing. We are not moving the Sabbath to Sunday at all we are saying it's not binding period. I do not claim that there is a commandment to worship on Sunday I simply do so because I am following the example of the Apostles.

If the Sabbath commandment is so important then why do SDAs not care about making other people break the commandment by using utilities, eating out (quite a few do this), driving, watching television, using the internet, and other daily activities? The reason is that they are not celebrating the Sabbath as laid out in scripture but rather as laid out in EGWs writings for which there is no support in scripture. If it really were based in scripture and they really cared about the souls of others they would not cause others to work on the day they claim is holy.

Even if I agreed with your statement and I do not you cannot show that Sunday is holy.

You cannot show that the 7th day is not holy, a fact that you even support by what you have said.

 

[Cliff2]

No, And nobody has ever tried to,But what can be proved though beyond a shadow of a doubt is that the Sabbath is no longer binding as a necessary commandment from the New Testament covenant we have in Christ today, deu58

Even after I have showed you all the Sabvbath keeping texts in the New Testament you say this.

You even say that the keeping of Sunday did not come in until 135 AD. So what did all the apostles keep. To me they kept the 7th day. Paul says he kept the Sabbath, Jesus kept the Sabbath, why should I keep another day?

 

[Airdude]

Even if I agreed with your statement and I do not you cannot show that Sunday is holy.

You cannot show that the 7th day is not holy, a fact that you even support by what you have said.

Thank you Cliff.

 

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

Even if I agreed with your statement and I do not you cannot show that Sunday is holy.

You cannot show that the 7th day is not holy, a fact that you even support by what you have said.

deu58 has already illustrated that the NT says over and over again that no days are regarded above others. In my post I am simply giving a caveat in order for debate and nothing more. You can make tenuous connections to the Sabbath being binding, which is legalism, but you still cannot show that worship is mandated at all on the Sabbath. The only thing mandated by the untenable position you have taken is that we not work. If that is the only thing mandated then making others work would wrong as well but we don't see the SDA caring about that in the least. They explain away their making of others work rather than admit that according to scripture what they are doing is in fact incorrect. Even if you can prove the Sabbath is binding it is obvious you are not keeping it correctly so your argument falls apart on that level. In fact there is not a single level on which your argument and practices become tenable.