SDA Question

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

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If you have honestly not been fully convinced of the Sabbath then God does not hold that against you, however if you know it to be true and reject that truth you will be held accountable for it.

Please show this in scripture...

This is because the issue was settled when you failed to show where the Sabbath was ever changed in scripture.

Then why don't SDAs practice the Sabbath as laid out in scripture? This argument is self defeating because the SDA cannot prove their Sabbath practices by scripture either. According to scripture everyone within your walls must practice the Sabbath as well. Every SDA I know uses things that cause people to work on the Sabbath. Driving your car even starts a fire which is spoken against in scripture. Going out to eat causes someone to cook, which is not allowed on the Sabbath. So the same question would apply to you, show where you have the authority to change the way the Sabbath is practiced.

 

[SearchingSDA]

Here is a simple illustration: Adam and Eve kept the Sabbath before they sinned, and after they sinnned, and were cast out of the Garden of Eden.

Can you help me find the scriptual basis for this statement?

 

[Athanasian Creed]

Regarding Sabbath keeping and SDAs: If God gave us the Sabbath commandment (#4), and he asks mandkind to obey it just as like the other 9 of the 10, why would not God help us to keep it? Flesh, you try to cast doubt on anyone who trys to keep God's Commandments. The Ten Commandments are not complicated, including the Sabbath commandment, as I have stated many times before a 12 year old child can comprehend its meaning, while adults because they refuse to even consider ot obey what God's commands, cannot comprehend the truth! The statutes given to the Jews in the law of Moses applied to the Jews or any other peoples if common sense shows that it does apply in our time. The Sabbath commandment as written by Jesus' own finger in stone, applies to all of mandkind through all time exactly as it is written. Here is a simple illustration: Adam and Eve kept the Sabbath before they sinned, and after they sinnned, and were cast out of the Garden of Eden. The children of Israel and the law of Moses did not exist at that time, but they kept the Sabbath. We are not wandering in the wilderness with the children of Israel now, so many of statutes in the law of Moses dealing with Sabbath keeping in that time, and their unique situation, don't nessesarily apply to Christians worldwide at this time, but the Sabbath can still be kept according to the commandment just like the disciple did after Jesus was crucified.

As we have pointed out time and time again, the Jewish Sabbath was given for the Jewish people ONLY (as was circumcision) as a covenant and reminder of them being seperated unto God as His people. Nowhere in the New Testament is it a requirement of Gentile believers to keep the Jewish Sabbath. Messianic Jews may or may not keep their Sabbath but are free to do so as Paul said -


Romans 14:5-6 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it...


As to your belief that Adam & Eve kept the Jewish Sabbath, that is pure speculation on your part. Nowhere in Scripture is there a basis for such a belief and furthermore, how could they have known anything about the Jewish Sabbath since the Jewish people hadn't yet been formed AND there were not as yet the 10 Commandments ?? The very first time that anyone was commanded to keep the Sabbath was in Exodus 16.


Please see http://www.bible.ca/7-plagiarism.htm for information on Ellen G. White, the alleged prophetess of the SDA church and other information on the SDA movement itself.



Ray

 

[Airdude]

Flesh,

According to scripture everyone within your walls must practice the Sabbath as well.

Very good, you're learning. Everyone within my walls does practice the Sabbath.

Every SDA I know uses things that cause people to work on the Sabbath. Driving your car even starts a fire which is spoken against in scripture. Going out to eat causes someone to cook, which is not allowed on the Sabbath. So the same question would apply to you, show where you have the authority to change the way the Sabbath is practiced.

If I purchase the gas for my car before the Sabbath hours how is that causing someone to work? I obviously can't speak for all SDAs, but you will find that the majority will abstain from going out to eat on the Sabbath. You are correct, I do not have the authority to change the Sabbath and thus far the SDA Church has been one of a few denominations that uphold the Sabbath. So, why do you follow those who really did change the Sabbath?

 

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

Flesh,



Very good, you're learning. Everyone within my walls does practice the Sabbath.

Walls refered to a whole city, are you saying you live within a city that is all Sabbath keepers?

If I purchase the gas for my car before the Sabbath hours how is that causing someone to work? I obviously can't speak for all SDAs, but you will find that the majority will abstain from going out to eat on the Sabbath. You are correct, I do not have the authority to change the Sabbath and thus far the SDA Church has been one of a few denominations that uphold the Sabbath. So, why do you follow those who really did change the Sabbath?

Purchasing gas before the Sabbath does not cause anyone to work but using electricity in your church does, as well as using natural gas, and water. Also starting your car kindles a fire as long as you are using an internal combustion engine. Driving causes road crews to work. Cooking in your home violates the sabbath as well. In fact even making a sandwich would be against the rules. You are to prepare your food the day before.

On top of that I do not claim to celebrate the Sabbath on Sunday. I celebrate the day our Lord rose from the dead and nothing less. I am not following those that claim to have changed the Sabbath I am following the Apostles who gathered on the first day.

 

[Airdude]

As to your belief that Adam & Eve kept the Jewish Sabbath, that is pure speculation on your part. Nowhere in Scripture is there a basis for such a belief and furthermore, how could they have known anything about the Jewish Sabbath since the Jewish people hadn't yet been formed AND there were not as yet the 10 Commandments ?? The very first time that anyone was commanded to keep the Sabbath was in Exodus 16.

"Then God said, 'Let us make man in our image. in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the
earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.' So God created man in His own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female He created them.

God blessed them and said to them, 'Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground.'

Then God said, 'I give you every seed bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the ground- everything that has the breath of life in it - I give every green plant for food'. And it was so.

God saw all that He had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning - the sixth day.

Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array.

By the seventh day God had finished the work He had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all His work. And God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it He rested from all the work of creating that He had done." Genesis 1:26-2:3

Speculation? I think not. Adam and Eve were present with God when He created the Sabbath! You are correct in saying that there were not any Jews at that time. The Sabbath was already there, it is the product of the seventh day of the creation week.

 

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

"Then God said, 'Let us make man in our image. in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the
earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.' So God created man in His own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female He created them.

God blessed them and said to them, 'Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground.'

Then God said, 'I give you every seed bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the ground- everything that has the breath of life in it - I give every green plant for food'. And it was so.

God saw all that He had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning - the sixth day.

Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array.

By the seventh day God had finished the work He had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all His work. And God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it He rested from all the work of creating that He had done." Genesis 1:26-2:3

Speculation? I think not. Adam and Eve were present with God when He created the Sabbath! You are correct in saying that there were not any Jews at that time. The Sabbath was already there, it is the product of the seventh day of the creation week.

Scripture clearly says that God rested but it does not even state he told Adam and Eve of any signifigance of the day, the day is not laid out to humans until the law is given. You are adding assumption to scripture. The fact it is it cannot be proven from scripture that the Sabbath was celebrated by humans until the giving of the law.

 

[Airdude]

Purchasing gas before the Sabbath does not cause anyone to work but using electricity in your church does, as well as using natural gas, and water. Also starting your car kindles a fire as long as you are using an internal combustion engine. Driving causes road crews to work. Cooking in your home violates the sabbath as well. In fact even making a sandwich would be against the rules. You are to prepare your food the day before.

The above quote is a dilemma for Orthodox Jews. The ceremonial law that you are refering to is what was done away with at the cross. The Ten Commandments are not part of the ceremonial law, they are God's moral law and will always be in effect.

Walls refered to a whole city, are you saying you live within a city that is all Sabbath keepers?

I am only responsible for the walls that I own and have dominion over. That would be my household.

I celebrate the day our Lord rose from the dead and nothing less.

Well, that is wonderful, but unfortunately it is not what God has asked of you.

 

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

The above quote is a dilemma for Orthodox Jews. The ceremonial law that you are refering to is what was done away with at the cross. The Ten Commandments are not part of the ceremonial law, they are God's moral law and will always be in effect.

I just love this part of the debate. Show, using scripture, where the ten commandments are ever listed seperately. Now onto the next part. Without the law there is nothing commanded but to remember the sabbath and keep it holy. I could do that by sitting at home and studyin g scripture, going to the zoo and observing God's creation, taking a walk with my kids. Nothing in the Ten Commandments even forbids working on the Sabbath. If you can make even a tenuous connection to the Ten Commandments being seperate from the law I have already shown you cannot support the way it is practiced by SDAs.

Then we have the food laws to deal because the SDA teach those as well and they sure aren't part of the ten commandments. So let go ahead and make the request for you to provide scripture to back the food laws taught as a requirement in the SDA church.

I am only responsible for the walls that I own and have dominion over. That would be my household.

Show us in scirpture where walls means anything but eveyone in your town. Using scripture only. Don't put your own interpretation into use, just use scripture.

Well, that is wonderful, but unfortunately it is not what God has asked of you.

[/quote]
I believe fully that it is as I am following the example of the Apostles.

 

[Airdude]

The fact it is it cannot be proven from scripture that the Sabbath was celebrated by humans until the giving of the law.

So, if God created man on the sixth day and created the Sabbath and rested on the seventh-day did He not invite His newly created humans who He created in His likeness to join Him?

The fact is that it cannot be proven from scripture that the Sabbath was ever changed from the seventh day.

 

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

So, if God created man on the sixth day and created the Sabbath and rested on the seventh-day did He not invite His newly created humans who He created in His likeness to join Him?

The fact is that it cannot be proven from scripture that the Sabbath was ever changed from the seventh day.

You are still making assumptions. You cannot show from scripture that the Sabbath was celebrated from creation by humans. To say otherwise is adding to scripture. Your may even feel your argument is logical but it is an argument with no factual basis whatsoever. I do not claim the sabbath was changed from the seventh day, that is a strawman argument as no-one in this thread has claimed that at all. The sabbath was part of Jewish law, given to the jews, never enforced on Gentiles.

 

[Airdude]

The sabbath was part of Jewish law, given to the jews, never enforced on Gentiles.

God does't enforce anything. He create us with free will. Free will to keep His Sabbath or not. We must however accept the consequences of our choices.

 

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

God does't enforce anything. He create us with free will. Free will to keep His Sabbath or not. We must however accept the consequences of our choices.

You have yet to show that the Sabbath was given to anyone except the Jews. I have asked for proof and you haven't provided it.

 

[Cliff2]

You have yet to show that the Sabbath was given to anyone except the Jews. I have asked for proof and you haven't provided it.

Adam was not a Jew and yet God gave him the 7th day of the week to keep holy.

You just refuse to accept that God made the 7th day of the week holy.

By refusing to acknowledge all of the Bible you place yourself at great risk.

I would not like my name to come up in the judgement with my record as saying that I refuse to accept all of God's law, saying I only accept nine of the commandmentsa nd want to follow what man has changed.

That is your choice but don't come complaing.

 

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

Adam was not a Jew and yet God gave him the 7th day of the week to keep holy.

You just refuse to accept that God made the 7th day of the week holy.

By refusing to acknowledge all of the Bible you place yourself at great risk.

I would not like my name to come up in the judgement with my record as saying that I refuse to accept all of God's law, saying I only accept nine of the commandmentsa nd want to follow what man has changed.

That is your choice but don't come complaing.

Show in scripture Adam being given the Sabbath. Go ahead, show us...

 

[Cliff2]

Show in scripture Adam being given the Sabbath. Go ahead, show us...

If you care to take your Bible and open it to the first book and then chapter two you will see that God made the 7th day holy.

There was never another day that God made holy.

Also you will never see in the Bible that God made the 7th day unholy.

Genesis 2 (New International Version)

2 By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested [a] from all his work. 3 And God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.

You maybe able to get around that with whatever, but I can't and will even try to.

 

[Egghead]

By refusing to acknowledge all of the Bible you place yourself at great risk.

That would INCLUDE Acts 15 where men told gentiles to follow the Law of Moses and were corrected on the matter.

I would not like my name to come up in the judgement with my record as saying that I refuse to accept all of God's law, saying I only accept nine of the commandmentsa nd want to follow what man has changed.

Ten commandments?
Is that all you follow?
Why only ten?
Where does anyone in the NT teach that we are only to follow the 10?

I guess that means that marrying my sister and having sex with animals is now permissible...seeing that nothing in the NT forbids it, yes?

 

[Egghead]

You have been shown in Romans that one man regards one day above another and another man ALL DAYS THE SAME.

If we were under compulsion to follow the sabbath, Im quite sure Acts 15 would have contained it and Romans would have added a stipulation concerning the ONE Sabbath day to be honored by all.

As it is, BOTH accounts are silent in the matter.

If you care to take your Bible and open it to the first book and then chapter two you will see that God made the 7th day holy.

There was never another day that God made holy.

Also you will never see in the Bible that God made the 7th day unholy.

Genesis 2 (New International Version)

2 By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested [a] from all his work. 3 And God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.

You maybe able to get around that with whatever, but I can't and will even try to.

 

[deu58]

Hello Airdude

By the seventh day God had finished the work He had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all His work. And God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it He rested from all the work of creating that He had done." Genesis 1:26-2:3

Speculation? I think not. Adam and Eve were present with God when He created the Sabbath! You are correct in saying that there were not any Jews at that time. The Sabbath was already there, it is the product of the seventh day of the creation week.

God reasted from all his works. Can you tell us when he went back to work??

yours in Christ
deu 58

 

[Airdude]

God reasted from all his works. Can you tell us when he went back to work??

After sundown Saturday night of course.