SDA please explain the failed prediction of Ellen White (SDA Prophet)

[tall73]

Even EGW tells us our focus needs to be God’s Word.

Yes, but not just that.

Testimonies Volume 4:

The volumes of Spirit of Prophecy, and also the Testimonies, should be introduced into every Sabbathkeeping family, and the brethren should know their value and be urged to read them. It was not the wisest plan to place these books at a low figure and have only one set in a church. They should be in the library of every family and read again and again. Let them be kept where they can be read by many, and let them be worn out in being read by all the neighbors. 4T 390.3

There should be evening readings, in which one should read aloud to those assembled at the winter fireside. There is but little interest manifested to make the most of the light given of God. Much of it is concerning family duties, and instruction is given to meet almost every case and circumstance. Money will be expended for tea, coffee, ribbons, ruffles, and trimmings, and much time and labor spent in preparing the apparel, while the inward work of the heart is neglected. God has caused precious light to be brought out in publications, and these should be owned and read by every family. Parents, your children are in danger of going contrary to the light given of heaven, and you should both purchase and read the books, for they will be a blessing to you and yours. You should lend Spirit of Prophecy to your neighbors and prevail upon them to buy copies for themselves. Missionaries for God, you should be earnest, active, vigorous workers. 4T 390.4

Many are going directly contrary to the light which God has given to His people, because they do not read the books which contain the light and knowledge in cautions, reproofs, and warnings. The cares of the world, the love of fashion, and the lack of religion have turned the attention from the light God has so graciously given, while books and periodicals containing error are traveling all over the country. Skepticism and infidelity are increasing everywhere. Light so precious, coming from the throne of God, is hid under a bushel. God will make His people responsible for this neglect. An account must be rendered to Him for every ray of light He has let shine upon our pathway, whether it has been improved to our advancement in divine things or rejected because it was more agreeable to follow inclination. 4T 391.1

 

[Leaf473]

We are told Jesus is coming soon in Scripture. We are told no one knows the day or the hour, and He will come at a time you think not.

So we should always live as though He is coming soon.

I agree that the coming of Jesus is always imminent. If he comes before I finish this post, I say Amen

But we should not predict specific dates.

Jesus also gave signs of His coming, so it is not wrong to reference those.

I agree with not predicting specific dates, or possibly more tempting, date ranges. Like: Israel became a state in 1948, this generation shall not pass away, a generation is 40 years, therefore Jesus has to come back before 1988.

I heard someone say that in the early '80s. Though, to be fair, I think they were just testing it out.

There certainly are conditional prophecies. God is merciful, as shown in the book of Jonah.

So it is something that needs to be carefully examined. And to me it makes more sense to look at the doctrine they teach and compare it to Scripture first, as that does not involve such complexities. If they don't match up there, then that is enough.

I'm fine with conditional prophecies. In the case of Jonah, the condition is implied imo: God will destroy this city... unless you repent.

If there are conditions to be met before prophecy about Jesus coming soon is fulfilled, then the prophecies effectively become
Jesus will return when the time is right. Maybe this minute, maybe a thousand years. imo.

Many people in the past have thought He's just around the corner. I remember people in the 70's saying that. Things are really lining up. 50 years later, if they're still around, they're still saying the same thing, in my experience.

But we are always to pray, Our Father, your kingdom come! Even so, come Lord Jesus!

 

[Leaf473]

We are told Jesus is coming soon in Scripture. We are told no one knows the day or the hour, and He will come at a time you think not.

So we should always live as though He is coming soon. But we should not predict specific dates.

Jesus also gave signs of His coming, so it is not wrong to reference those.

There certainly are conditional prophecies. God is merciful, as shown in the book of Jonah.

So it is something that needs to be carefully examined.

And to me it makes more sense to look at the doctrine they teach and compare it to Scripture first, as that does not involve such complexities. If they don't match up there, then that is enough.

And yes, amen to testing the doctrines with scriptures

 

[Leaf473]

No, EGW never predicted the Seoncd Coming of Jesus, she was 17 years old, a Methodist in 1844 and the SDA church had not even formed until 20 years later. It was a Baptist Minster who predicted this based on a misunderstanding of prophecy.

Didn't she say in a meeting sometime that she was shown that some there would be food for worms, some would experience the plagues, and so on? Or am I misremembering?

Regardless, Jesus is Coming Soon according to His Word.

One can spend countless hours posting thread after thread about anti-EGW and keep that their focus instead of Christ,

To be fair, no one is required to post here. Fewer posts from anyone would mean fewer posts to respond to, and the thread would probably dry up.

Myself, I don't see it as taking my focus off of Christ. I see it as spending time with my Christian brothers and sisters, SDA and non-SDA alike

...I do find it odd those who claim SDA’s spend more time on EGW are actually the ones constantly bringing her up over any teachings of scripture. Even EGW tells us our focus needs to be God’s Word.

Anyway, will leave you all to it.

Peace be with you

 

[Leaf473]

Yes, but not just that.

Testimonies Volume 4:

The volumes of Spirit of Prophecy, and also the Testimonies, should be introduced into every Sabbathkeeping family, and the brethren should know their value and be urged to read them. It was not the wisest plan to place these books at a low figure and have only one set in a church. They should be in the library of every family and read again and again. Let them be kept where they can be read by many, and let them be worn out in being read by all the neighbors. 4T 390.3

There should be evening readings, in which one should read aloud to those assembled at the winter fireside. There is but little interest manifested to make the most of the light given of God. Much of it is concerning family duties, and instruction is given to meet almost every case and circumstance. Money will be expended for tea, coffee, ribbons, ruffles, and trimmings, and much time and labor spent in preparing the apparel, while the inward work of the heart is neglected. God has caused precious light to be brought out in publications, and these should be owned and read by every family. Parents, your children are in danger of going contrary to the light given of heaven, and you should both purchase and read the books, for they will be a blessing to you and yours.

You should lend Spirit of Prophecy to your neighbors and prevail upon them to buy copies for themselves.

Ah, that explains why my coworker many years ago really, really wanted me to borrow her three-volume set of selected Ellen White writings.

Missionaries for God, you should be earnest, active, vigorous workers. 4T 390.4

Many are going directly contrary to the light which God has given to His people, because they do not read the books which contain the light and knowledge in cautions, reproofs, and warnings. The cares of the world, the love of fashion, and the lack of religion have turned the attention from the light God has so graciously given, while books and periodicals containing error are traveling all over the country. Skepticism and infidelity are increasing everywhere. Light so precious, coming from the throne of God, is hid under a bushel. God will make His people responsible for this neglect. An account must be rendered to Him for every ray of light He has let shine upon our pathway, whether it has been improved to our advancement in divine things or rejected because it was more agreeable to follow inclination. 4T 391.1

 

[tall73]

Ah, that explains why my coworker many years ago really, really wanted me to borrow her three-volume set of selected Ellen White writings.

Indeed!

 

[Gary K]

@Adventist Heretic

You've never posted on Ellen White in over a decade? Really? Would you like to retract that statement now or do you want me to embarrass you very badly? You know I can do it but I have no desire to do so.

 

[BobRyan]

No, EGW never predicted the Seoncd Coming of Jesus, she was 17 years old, a Methodist in 1844 and the SDA church had not even formed until 20 years later. It was a Baptist Minster who predicted this based on a misunderstanding of prophecy.

Regardless, Jesus is Coming Soon according to His Word.

One can spend countless hours posting thread after thread about anti-EGW and keep that their focus instead of Christ, I do find it odd those who claim SDA’s spend more time on EGW are actually the ones constantly bringing her up over any teachings of scripture. Even EGW tells us our focus needs to be God’s Word.

amen!

 

[BobRyan]

Ah, that explains why my coworker many years ago really, really wanted me to borrow

Really really wanted to let you read his/her copies?? Seriously someone was willing to allow you to read three of their own books??

hmmm...

I'm just trying to work out a way to turn that into "a bad thing".

I have run across a few sincere seeker threads on CF where someone was asking about a detail in the life of Christ that they found puzzling and so I found a free online commentary on the life of Christ to point them to --

I guess there is a way to "turn that into a bad thing" if one puts their mind to it.

 

[BobRyan]

And yes, amen to testing the doctrines with scriptures

Well you would 'think' everyone here would be happy with that idea...

So lets see what's happening when I do that very thing with Mark 1:15 -- notice how "far from Mark 1:15" people will try to go.

Adventists affirm Mark 1:15 regarding Dan 9 and the 70 weeks prophecy and pre-advent Investigative Judgment of Dan 7

(In light of many of the recent all-ellen-white-all-the-time-threads) I thought it would be a refreshing switch to have a Bible topic we all have the background info to discuss. The title is sure to catch the attention of one or two members here. Dan 9 has a 70 weeks (490 days... becomes...

www.christianforums.com

 

[tall73]

Well you would 'think' everyone here would be happy with that idea... yet "oddly enough" notice what happens as I do that very thing with Mark 1:15

I didn't see anyone reject Mark 1:15.

I don't think anyone in that thread even rejected the 70 weeks pointing to Christ's first Advent.

 

[Leaf473]

Really really wanted to let you read his/her copies?? Seriously someone was willing to allow you to read three of their own books??

hmmm...

I'm just trying to work out a way to turn that into "a bad thing".

I have run across a few sincere seeker threads on CF where someone was asking about a detail in the life of Christ that they found puzzling and so I found a free online commentary on the life of Christ to point them to --

I guess there is a way to "turn that into a bad thing" if one puts their mind to it.

I wasn't saying it was a bad thing, more like something I didn't understand at the time.

Here's some more details:
She didn't have a car, and needed someone to take her to the food store attached to the local SDA Church.
(As a side note, there were also people there who had some kind of voucher. Looks like they were giving away healthy food to poor people. I say Amen to that )

While we were there she bought me some vegetarian hot dogs. Very tasty! And during the car ride we talked about God, Christianity, the Bible, the law.

Anyways, when we got back to her apartment, or maybe shortly thereafter, she loaned me her prized set of books by Ellen White. Must have weighed at least 20 pounds.

I spent some time looking them over, but didn't like the general direction they were going. We were preparing to move across the country, so I brought them back to work a week or two later.

She was very disappointed, as on the verge of tears disappointed. She wanted me to take them, and ship them back to her after I was done reading them. Note that she wasn't giving them to me.

I wasn't about to tote 20 lb of books that I wasn't interested in across the country, and then box them up and ship them back to her on the other side.

So the strange part, the part I didn't understand until now, was why she was so all fired up and invested in me taking those books

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said:
Really really wanted to let you read his/her copies?? Seriously someone was willing to allow you to read three of their own books??

hmmm...

I'm just trying to work out a way to turn that into "a bad thing".

I have run across a few sincere seeker threads on CF where someone was asking about a detail in the life of Christ that they found puzzling and so I found a free online commentary on the life of Christ to point them to --

I guess there is a way to "turn that into a bad thing" if one puts their mind to it.

I wasn't saying it was a bad thing, more like something I didn't understand at the time.

Well.. you "know you better than I do" so I guess there is something there that would lead you to be confused about the idea that someone would be willing to lend you a book that they owned.

I leave that one to you.

Here's some more details:
She didn't have a car, and needed someone to take her to the food store attached to the local SDA Church.

Maybe "another reason" why she was willing to do you the favor of lending you a book of hers.

(As a side note, there were also people there who had some kind of voucher. Looks like they were giving away healthy food to poor people. I say Amen to that )

While we were there she bought me some vegetarian hot dogs. Very tasty! And during the car ride we talked about God, Christianity, the Bible, the law.

Anyways, when we got back to her apartment, or maybe shortly thereafter, she loaned me her prized set of books by Ellen White. Must have weighed at least 20 pounds.

interesting. Maybe she thought she was doing you a favor by lending those books.

 

[BobRyan]

And yes, amen to testing the doctrines with scriptures

Well you would 'think' everyone here would be happy with that idea...

So lets see what's happening when I do that very thing with Mark 1:15 -- notice how "far from Mark 1:15" people will try to go.

Adventists affirm Mark 1:15 regarding Dan 9 and the 70 weeks prophecy and pre-advent Investigative Judgment of Dan 7

(In light of many of the recent all-ellen-white-all-the-time-threads) I thought it would be a refreshing switch to have a Bible topic we all have the background info to discuss. The title is sure to catch the attention of one or two members here. Dan 9 has a 70 weeks (490 days... becomes...

www.christianforums.com

I didn't see anyone reject Mark 1:15.

You also didn't see me say "reject Mark 1:15" in my comment above.

What I said was - to go to that thread "and look" at what happens on my sola-scriptura threads such as that one.

I don't think anyone in that thread even rejected the 70 weeks pointing to Christ's first Advent.

I wish I could agree. Certainly you did say you agree that it points to the first coming of Christ... But other people also posted there.

 

[BobRyan]

@Adventist Heretic

You've never posted on Ellen White in over a decade? Really? ...

Your post shows that you are responding to something - but we can't see the statement (in your post) that you are responding to

 

[tall73]

Well you would 'think' everyone here would be happy with that idea...

So lets see what's happening when I do that very thing with Mark 1:15 -- notice how "far from Mark 1:15" people will try to go.

Adventists affirm Mark 1:15 regarding Dan 9 and the 70 weeks prophecy and pre-advent Investigative Judgment of Dan 7

(In light of many of the recent all-ellen-white-all-the-time-threads) I thought it would be a refreshing switch to have a Bible topic we all have the background info to discuss. The title is sure to catch the attention of one or two members here. Dan 9 has a 70 weeks (490 days... becomes...

www.christianforums.com

What I said was - to go to that thread "and look" at what happens on my sola-scriptura threads such as that one.

I did look! Folks can also go and look.

 

[Leaf473]

Well.. you "know you better than I do" so I guess there is something there that would lead you to be confused about the idea that someone would be willing to lend you a book that they owned.

I wasn't confused so much as that it just seemed strange, until just recently when I learned that Ellen had strongly directed people to try to get their neighbors to read the books.

I leave that one to you.

Maybe "another reason" why she was willing to do you the favor of lending you a book of hers.

interesting.

Maybe she thought she was doing you a favor by lending those books.

It wouldn't be doing me a favor to try to get me to lug 20 lb of books across the country only to mail them back to her on the other side.

Certainly a person not wanting to do that shouldn't bring another person close to tears. But it makes sense now

 

[Leaf473]

Well you would 'think' everyone here would be happy with that idea...

So lets see what's happening when I do that very thing with Mark 1:15 -- notice how "far from Mark 1:15" people will try to go.

Adventists affirm Mark 1:15 regarding Dan 9 and the 70 weeks prophecy and pre-advent Investigative Judgment of Dan 7

(In light of many of the recent all-ellen-white-all-the-time-threads) I thought it would be a refreshing switch to have a Bible topic we all have the background info to discuss. The title is sure to catch the attention of one or two members here. Dan 9 has a 70 weeks (490 days... becomes...

www.christianforums.com

I repeat the rating that I gave to this post when you first posted it

 

[Adventist Dissident]

@Adventist Heretic

You've never posted on Ellen White in over a decade? Really? Would you like to retract that statement now or do you want me to embarrass you very badly? You know I can do it but I have no desire to do so.

I am talking about starting a post on her. not commenting on other posts. if I have started a post then i have forgotten about it. I literally stopped reading and learning anything new on the subject in 2012. so it is possible i have forgotten, that is how memory works some times we don't remember. so no gotcha moment here.

 

[tall73]

Hmmmm. Seems to me you and I had a discussion about SDA doctrines and you failed miserably. I provided a link to the SDA 28 fundamental beliefs and you failed to copy and paste out of it the proof of your assertions. Now you're back again with more baseless attacks. Then you claimed to have attended Andrews and knew all about SDA beliefs.

You seem to be confusing him with someone else. I have known him for decades. He did not go to Andrews. He does hold a theology degree. And he knows Adventist doctrine. But he does not agree with every point of Adventist doctrine.

I think he should leave the Adventist church, but he feels he should reform. Those are usually the choices once you have an issue with points of Adventist doctrine.