Scottish Independence

[theFijian]

Actually, lismore is right. The coalition have no mandate to do anything in Scotland. They were not given a majority in parliament. The Conservatives and Lib Dems have mandates in their own constituencies, but that's it. As far as the whole of Scotland goes, they're an irrelevance.

Another person who doesn't know how our democracy works! Scotland is still part of the UK and while that is the case our elected government have a mandate by virtue of the fact that they are our government. Are people not aware that the Scottish parliament only have limited powers? Are people not aware that there are more conservatives in the Scottish parliament than there are Scottish conservatives in the UK parliament? The Tories have more of a mandate in the Scotand than people around here like to admit. btw I have never voted Tory I just think it helps if people address the facts rather than arguing from their positions they have invested too much emotion in.

 

[lismore]

Really? So 15% of our elected representatives in the Scottish parliament have 'zero authority'? I'm not sure you're aware how democracy works

Pure democracy does not involve electing representatives from the population, it's when the people vote directly on every issue, as in Ancient Athens.

The Conservatives and Liberals did not win either the 2010 or 2011 elections in Scotland and yet their unwanted government is foisted on the people of Scotland.

One of the main reasons we will be having the Independence Referendum.

 

[lismore]

Another person who doesn't know how our democracy works! Scotland is still part of the UK and while that is the case our elected government have a mandate by virtue of the fact that they are our government.

You contradicted yourself in that statement.

'Democracy' and 'UK'. The people did not vote in 1707 for Union. The Union is an undemocratic institution.

 

[GodsDaughter1981]

Are people not aware that the Scottish parliament only have limited powers?

Perfectly aware, otherwise there would be no need for independence.

Are people not aware that there are more conservatives in the Scottish parliament than there are Scottish conservatives in the UK parliament?

There are more pandas than Tory MSP's in Scotland Sorry, what was your point...?

The Tories have more of a mandate in the Scotand than people around here like to admit. btw I have never voted Tory I just think it helps if people address the facts rather than arguing from their positions they have invested too much emotion in.

I see no emotional response at all here. I see a factual and evidence-based point of view.

Show me a positive case for the union (beyond some vague notion of "we're stronger together!" and I'm willing to take it on board. Until then, independence will always get my vote.

 

[theFijian]

Pure democracy does not involve electing representatives from the population, it's when the people vote directly on every issue, as in Ancient Athens.

Lol so you think in ancient Athens the entire population actually voted on all decisions? The entire population? Why you've decided to introduce some notion of 'pure democracy' which has never existed anywhere ever as if this is the utopia which awaits us in an independent Scotland is a bit of a mystery.

The Conservatives and Liberals did not win either the 2010 or 2011 elections in Scotland and yet their unwanted government is foisted on the people of Scotland.

Again the facts about our current democratic and parliamentary system are strangely missing.

One of the main reasons we will be having the Independence Referendum.

Uh no it's because the SNP are in the majority in the scottish parliament, which would have happened even if Labour or a Lib-Lab coalition had gotten into westminster.

 

[theFijian]

You contradicted yourself in that statement.

'Democracy' and 'UK'. The people did not vote in 1707 for Union. The Union is an undemocratic institution.

Right so because nobody asked you about it that makes it undemocratic. You need to get used to the idea that your 'pure democracy' has never existed anywhere ever and is not going to exist in an independant Scotland either.

 

[theFijian]

There are more pandas than Tory MSP's in Scotland Sorry, what was your point...?

I see no emotional response at all here. I see a factual and evidence-based point of view.

Right so here are the facts ok: Conservatives | People | MSPs

There are 15 Conservative MSPs, people really need to deal with the facts rather than SNP spin.

Show me a positive case for the union (beyond some vague notion of "we're stronger together!" and I'm willing to take it on board.

Not having more public spending fiascos like the Scottish parliament building, the Edinburgh trams, the new forth crossing
Not having to endure Salmond's fiscal harikari which we will be bearing the cost of for decades
Not having the the SNPs elitist liberal agendas put into legislation

These are all positives which Scotland could do with!

Until then, independence will always get my vote.

Hmm so independence is the default position, looks like it is emotion over facts after all.

 

[GodsDaughter1981]

Actually, I refuse to debate any further with someone who is rude and condescending. Either we debate as mature adults, or not at all.

 

[lismore]

There are 15 Conservative MSPs, people really need to deal with the facts rather than SNP spin.
.

There are 15 Conservative MSPs out of 129 seats.

#176

 

[lismore]

Actually, I refuse to debate any further with someone who is rude and condescending. Either we debate as mature adults, or not at all.

Don't take it to heart.

When people get snippy it's because they cannot refute what you're saying.

 

[theFijian]

#176

Quite, shame some people prefer spin to facts.

 

[theFijian]

Don't take it to heart.

When people get snippy it's because they cannot refute what you're saying.

Lol the only positive case put forward so far for independence has been...

 

[fenix144]

Peoples peoples. You just can't understand the thing unless you're in the same situation.

It has nothing to do with advantages. It has everything to do with being a different nation and ruling yourselves. That's about it. And that's pretty much all there is to it.
I doubt anyone here will proceed to tell me the feeling isn't legitimate.

Thefijian : We have peoples like you over here too. It's really a shame.

 

[davidn87]

I hate Alex Salmond and everything he stands for. To leave the UK would be madness, there's no way we can survive on our own. The mans only interested in publicity for himself.

 

[Bish bash bosh]

I hate Alex Salmond and everything he stands for. To leave the UK would be madness, there's no way we can survive on our own. The mans only interested in publicity for himself.

 

[theFijian]

It has nothing to do with advantages. It has everything to do with being a different nation and ruling yourselves. That's about it. And that's pretty much all there is to it.
I doubt anyone here will proceed to tell me the feeling isn't legitimate.

Nothing qualitative, nothing substantive, just purely emotive rhetoric.

Thefijian : We have peoples like you over here too. It's really a shame.

Case in point, ample demonstration of the vacuous nature of nationalist arguments. If you have lost the argument start throwing insults.

 

[lismore]

I hate Alex Salmond and everything he stands for. To leave the UK would be madness, there's no way we can survive on our own. The mans only interested in publicity for himself.

The way things are going the UK will not be able to survive. UK debt now one trillion pounds, they will never pay it back. Time to find the exit before the UK goes down the swanny.

 

[Genersis]

The way things are going the UK will not be able to survive. UK debt now one trillion pounds, they will never pay it back. Time to find the exit before the UK goes down the swanny.

Yes, because:
1) Scotland will leave the UK without it's share of the debt.
2) You can run away from the damage debt does to the global economy.


If only it was that simple.

 

[lismore]

Yes, because:
1) Scotland will leave the UK without it's share of the debt.
2) You can run away from the damage debt does to the global economy.


If only it was that simple.

The UK is not financially viable. There will have to be big changes soon.

 

[Nabobalis]

The UK is not financially viable. There will have to be big changes soon.

Scotland can't leave without taking some of the UK debt - let alone that the Bank of Scotland is in UK hands.