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Scientific vs Wrong

SkyWriting

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Would that mean the one's that don't aren't modern???? :)
Elderly, aged, older, senior, advanced in years, up in years; belonging only or chiefly to the past; former or previous; bygone, past, former, olden, of old,
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AV1611VET

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Elderly, aged, older, senior, advanced in years, up in years; belonging only or chiefly to the past; former or previous; bygone, past, former, olden, of old, ... vintage
Far out!

I didn't realize I had all those qualities! :oldthumbsup:
 
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Justatruthseeker

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Sorry about that. But as you learned, much of what you thought was "junk DNA"has other functions.

Only about 1 percent of DNA is made up of protein-coding genes; the other 99 percent is noncoding. Noncoding DNA does not provide instructions for making proteins. Scientists once thought noncoding DNA was “junk,” with no known purpose. However, it is becoming clear that at least some of it is integral to the function of cells, particularly the control of gene activity. For example, noncoding DNA contains sequences that act as regulatory elements, determining when and where genes are turned on and off. Such elements provide sites for specialized proteins (called transcription factors) to attach (bind) and either activate or repress the process by which the information from genes is turned into proteins (transcription). Noncoding DNA contains many types of regulatory elements:

  • Promoters provide binding sites for the protein machinery that carries out transcription. Promoters are typically found just ahead of the gene on the DNA strand.
  • Enhancers provide binding sites for proteins that help activate transcription. Enhancers can be found on the DNA strand before or after the gene they control, sometimes far away.
  • Silencers provide binding sites for proteins that repress transcription. Like enhancers, silencers can be found before or after the gene they control and can be some distance away on the DNA strand.
  • Insulators provide binding sites for proteins that control transcription in a number of ways. Some prevent enhancers from aiding in transcription (enhancer-blocker insulators). Others prevent structural changes in the DNA that repress gene activity (barrier insulators). Some insulators can function as both an enhancer blocker and a barrier.
Other regions of noncoding DNA provide instructions for the formation of certain kinds of RNA molecules. RNA is a chemical cousin of DNA. Examples of specialized RNA molecules produced from noncoding DNA include transfer RNAs (tRNAs) and ribosomal RNAs (rRNAs), which help assemble protein building blocks (amino acids) into a chain that forms a protein; microRNAs (miRNAs), which are short lengths of RNA that block the process of protein production; and long noncoding RNAs (lncRNAs), which are longer lengths of RNA that have diverse roles in regulating gene activity.

Some structural elements of chromosomes are also part of noncoding DNA. For example, repeated noncoding DNA sequences at the ends of chromosomes form telomeres. Telomeres protect the ends of chromosomes from being degraded during the copying of genetic material. Repetitive noncoding DNA sequences also form satellite DNA, which is a part of other structural elements. Satellite DNA is the basis of the centromere, which is the constriction point of the X-shaped chromosome pair. Satellite DNA also forms heterochromatin, which is densely packed DNA that is important for controlling gene activity and maintaining the structure of chromosomes.

Some noncoding DNA regions, called introns, are located within protein-coding genes but are removed before a protein is made. Regulatory elements, such as enhancers, can be located in introns. Other noncoding regions are found between genes and are known as intergenic regions.

The identity of regulatory elements and other functional regions in noncoding DNA is not completely understood. Researchers are working to understand the location and role of these genetic components.
https://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/primer/basics/noncodingdna




Well, let's take a look...

Transposon-Derived Non-coding RNAs and Their Function in Plants

Jungnam Cho*

  • The Sainsbury Laboratory, University of Cambridge, Cambridge, United Kingdom

Transposable elements (TEs) are often regarded as harmful genomic factors and indeed they are strongly suppressed by the epigenetic silencing mechanisms. On the other hand, the mobilization of TEs brings about variability of genome and transcriptome which are essential in the survival and evolution of the host species. The vast majority of such controlling TEs influence the neighboring genes in cis by either promoting or repressing the transcriptional activities. Although TEs are highly repetitive in the genomes and transcribed in specific stress conditions or developmental stages, the trans-acting regulatory roles of TE-derived RNAs have been rarely studied. It was only recently that TEs were investigated for their regulatory roles as a form of RNA. Particularly in plants, TEs are ample source of small RNAs such as small interfering (si) RNAs and micro (mi) RNAs. Those TE-derived small RNAs have potentials to affect non-TE transcripts by sequence complementarity, thereby generating novel gene regulatory networks including stress resistance and hybridization barrier. Apart from the small RNAs, a number of long non-coding RNAs (lncRNAs) are originated from TEs in plants. For example, a retrotransposon-derived lncRNA expressed in rice root acts as a decoy RNA or miRNA target mimic which negatively controls miRNA171. The post-transcriptional suppression of miRNA171 in roots ensures the stabilization of the target transcripts encoding SCARECROW-LIKE transcription factors, the key regulators of root development. In this review article, the recent discoveries of the regulatory roles of TE-derived RNAs in plants will be highlighted.


Sorry. TE's are not what you assumed they are.

Perhaps you could help your case by showing us that most non-coding DNA sequences are remnants of other alleles for various existing genes. What do you have?



Development. 2017 Jun 1;144(11):1959-1965. doi: 10.1242/dev.146407. Epub 2017 Apr 28.
New alleles of the wheat domestication gene Q reveal multiple roles in growth and reproductive development.
Greenwood JR1,2, Finnegan EJ1, Watanabe N3, Trevaskis B1, Swain SM4.



And once again, you see that being abusive has damaged you here. Try to do better.

Barbarian, regarding the notion that Adam and Eve were "perfect" because they had more than 2 alleles for each gene:
There actually are some cases where humans have more than two copies of each gene. It doesn't make them "perfect", though. It usually makes them dead. And when it doesn't kill them, it usually causes some serious damage. Trisomy 21 (Down's Syndrome) is one such case that isn't lethal.

Hardly perfection.



Nope. You're confusing polyploidy with a new allele. You, for example, have at least a dozen new alleles, but you are unlikely to be polyploid, since you're alive.

Instead of getting upset and abusive, focus on what you're trying to persuade us about. It can only make you more credible.



Normal humans have 2 copies of each gene, which may be different alleles. Those who have more than 2 copies usually end up dead before birth, and those that don't are most often mentally or physically impaired. So the notion that Adam and Eve could have had all existing human alleles is completely wrong.



On the other hand, when it's positive, it can provide good immunity to malaria, stronger bones, resistance to arteriosclerosis, immunity to HIV, and so on. As you just learned, natural selection tends to remove the harmful ones and increase the good ones.

The HbS gene is an instructive case, because when one has two HbS alleles one has a debilitating and often fatal disorder. But if one has one HbS allele, one has very good immunity to malaria, which is a debilitating and often fatal disease. In areas where malaria is common, HbS is prevalent, because people who are heterozygous for HbS will have about 3/4 of their children immune to malaria. About 1/4 will have a severe disease that will make them unlikely to live long enough to have children. But those parents without one HbS allele will have most of their children contract malaria with much the same outcome. Hence, HbS is favored where malaria is common, because those with one copy of it will tend to leave more offspring capable of reproducing. Recently, another mutation produced the HbC allele, which is increasing at the expense of HbS. The reason is that homozygotes for HbC, although protected from malaria, are also much more healthy than homozygotes for HbS, and often live productive lives, and reproduce.

What I see is blah, blah, blah, blah.

Gibberish about polymorphism would kill or harm you....

"HLA genes are highly polymorphic, which means that they have many different alleles, allowing them to fine-tune the adaptive immune system."

That polymorphic ability is what keeps you alive, not kills you.....

Here's more double-talk from you.

"Only about 1 percent of DNA is made up of protein-coding genes; the other 99 percent is noncoding. Noncoding DNA does not provide instructions for making proteins. Scientists once thought noncoding DNA was “junk,” with no known purpose. However, it is becoming clear that at least some of it is integral to the function of cells, particularly the control of gene activity. For example, noncoding DNA contains sequences that act as regulatory elements, determining when and where genes are turned on and off. Such elements provide sites for specialized proteins (called transcription factors) to attach (bind) and either activate or repress the process by which the information from genes is turned into proteins (transcription). Noncoding DNA contains many types of regulatory elements:"

And "some of it" is completely unknown because it no longer does anything because mutations "highly degraded it"....

But I notice you still ignored that part from Berkley.... along with the large fraction who's function was still "unknown".

Experiments have already shown that E coli already had the ability to survive in aerobic conditions, as tested long ago with antibacterials.

lederberg_1.gif
dot_clear.gif
1. Bacteria are spread out on a plate, called the "original plate."
lederberg_2.gif
2. They are allowed to grow into several different colonies.
lederberg_3.gif
3. This layout of colonies is stamped from the original plate onto a new plate that contains the antibiotic penicillin.
lederberg_4.gif
4. Colonies X and Y on the stamped plate survive. They must carry a mutation for penicillin resistance.
lederberg_5A.gif
5. The Lederbergs set out to answer the question, "did the colonies on the new plate evolve antibiotic resistance because they were exposed to penicillin?" The answer is no:
When the original plate is washed with penicillin, the same colonies (those in position X and Y) live — even though these colonies on the original plate have never encountered penicillin before."

Colonies x and y survived 31,000 generations before they developed any mutations. All the mutation did was take an ability that already existed and make it dominant.

On the other hand, mutations in humans have taken what was once active and highly degraded it to the point that quite a bit of it is now non-functional. Another large portion is "unknown"

New alleles are discovered every day in the human leukocyte antigen genome. This is because this portion of the genome is the most commonly studied due to diseases capable of infecting the human body.

Now lets cover your strawman.

Here is your stance - double genomes, which was never brought up by me to begin with.

Here is my stance. Now non-functioning genomes added variation we do not see today. their function is unknown, because they are no longer functional..... If their function is unknown, because they are now non-functional, any claims they did not do something when functional is deluded at best....

They coded for all the different races, which is why the population can now only get different varieties of races by mixing. No new races have ever formed in the history of mankind from mutation. it has never been observed and is pure conjecture that it could have ever occurred.

Your theory always requires things to happen in the past where it can't be tested, because every test such as E coli, showed the ability already existed else they would not have survived to the 31,000 generation. But that was already shown to be the outcome back in 1952...... with bacteria and antigens......

Give up your false beliefs, they get you no where except round and round in circles.....
 
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The Barbarian

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What I see is blah, blah, blah, blah.

It's because you've confused evolution of new alleles with polyploidy. These are entirely different sorts of mutations.

Gibberish about polymorphism would kill or harm you....

"HLA genes are highly polymorphic, which means that they have many different alleles, allowing them to fine-tune the adaptive immune system."

You don't understand the difference. A mutation that changes a gene to a different allele is not the same as making multiple copies of the gene. As you learned, polyploidy in humans generally kills, and when it doesn't it usually results in mental or physical deficits.

"Only about 1 percent of DNA is made up of protein-coding genes; the other 99 percent is noncoding. Noncoding DNA does not provide instructions for making proteins. Scientists once thought noncoding DNA was “junk,” with no known purpose. However, it is becoming clear that at least some of it is integral to the function of cells, particularly the control of gene activity. For example, noncoding DNA contains sequences that act as regulatory elements, determining when and where genes are turned on and off. Such elements provide sites for specialized proteins (called transcription factors) to attach (bind) and either activate or repress the process by which the information from genes is turned into proteins (transcription). Noncoding DNA contains many types of regulatory elements:"

And "some of it" is completely unknown because it no longer does anything because mutations "highly degraded it"....

Perhaps you could be more convincing if you could show us that where some of the non-coding DNA is inactivated alleles of genes still existing. What have you got?

On the other hand, mutations in humans have taken what was once active

Show us that it was all once active. What have you got to show that.

New alleles are discovered every day in the human leukocyte antigen genome.

And yet, Adam and Eve could have had no more than 4 alleles for any given gene. The rest evolved by mutation.

Here is my stance. Now non-functioning genomes added variation we do not see today.

I know you want to believe that. Show us the evidence. As you just learned, much of non-coding DNA has other functions, so clearly, you're wrong about at least a large part of it. As you also learned, TEs have important functions not related to direct protein synthesis.

They coded for all the different races, which is why the population can now only get different varieties of races by mixing.

There are no longer any biological human races. The Neandertals and Denisovans are extinct, although some of their genes are present in different human populations. Presently, there is more genetic variation within any "race" you might define, than there is between "races." Race today is a social construct, not a biological reality.

Your theory always requires things to happen in the past where it can't be tested

As you learned, Barry Hall's bacteria evolved a new, irreducibly complex enzyme system in a matter of months, by a series of mutations.

A population of lizards on an island in the Adriatic evolved a new digestive organ, and a reorganized skull and jaw to permit feeding on plants that exist on that island.

You resist the reality of evolution, because you have erroneously thought that man's invention of creationism is part of God's word. It's not. You won't go to hell for being a creationist; God doesn't care if you approve of the way He created living things. But you might put your salvation at risk by adding to His word.

Avoid that.
 
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jayem

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One problem, Jayem. Such a way of walking is the idolizing of Science - in life the human mind and heart of turning and exalting Science as what to do in order to know accurately the truth about this life in general and specifics.

In our day mankind has idolized Science. Just look within the Science departments at universities - and their texts. They have the most up to date view of this world around us - what is reality around us and what is not.

People no longer need the Bible nor God Himself in order to know and walk in truth in this life. God and the Bible can be set aside.

But in so doing the age has come where people can walk with an idol in them, and live by such idol, and set the Bible and God aside. In fact this is promoted as the way to live in this world - in idolatry, with Science as central.


I respect good science. Objectivity, analytical thinking, and empirical methods (whenever possible) are the best ways we have of learning accurate information about the universe. But I don't idolize it. Science is a human endeavor. And like all human enterprises, it is fallible. It can be mistaken. But good scientists will admit error, and try to correct it. To me, that is far more honest and respectable than many religious believers who claim their scriptures are infallible. And will never admit their fundamental doctrines could be in error. If that's not a type of idolatry, then what is?
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Objectivity, analytical thinking, and empirical methods (whenever possible) are the best ways we have of learning accurate information about the universe.
If that's not a type of idolatry, then what is?
 
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jayem

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All contrary of course to Yahweh's Word, including His description of Creation.

Don’t you see that you’re idolizing the Bible? That’s Bibliolatry. You think it’s divinely inspired and infallible. And you’re entitled to your beliefs. But the Bible is no different than the Koran, the Vedas, the Upanishads, the Book of Mormon, or even L. Ron Hubbard’s Dianetics. They’re all products of the human imagination. Yes, the Bible has some historical fact. So does Homer’s Iliad. But it’s mixed in with a lot of fable, folklore, fantasy, fallacy, and fabrication.

(How’s that for alliteration? :oldthumbsup:)
 
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Justatruthseeker

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I respect good science. Objectivity, analytical thinking, and empirical methods (whenever possible) are the best ways we have of learning accurate information about the universe. But I don't idolize it. Science is a human endeavor. And like all human enterprises, it is fallible. It can be mistaken. But good scientists will admit error, and try to correct it. To me, that is far more honest and respectable than many religious believers who claim their scriptures are infallible. And will never admit their fundamental doctrines could be in error. If that's not a type of idolatry, then what is?
Analytical thinking is indeed good, but the majority tends to resist ideas that are not already in line with their thinking.

Harlen Bretz would understand this perfectly. Resisted by the majority because his ideas cast doubt in the uniformitarianism of geological thoughts and might lend support to Biblical catastrophic scenarios.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/J_Harlen_Bretz

The majority were not thinking critically, instead they used pure belief in the faith of their incorrect theories Correctness to counter the critical thinking. They indeed thought their ideas infallible. It’s just not that uncommon in mankind to believe one is on the correct path when he isn’t at all. And then argue against the correct theory because it would require one to abandon long held flawed assumptions.

The problem with the Bible is most don't understand the vast majority of it uses allegory to prove a moral point, and was not trying to imply people were wheat or weeds.....
 
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Heissonear

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Don’t you see that you’re idolizing the Bible? That’s Bibliolatry. You think it’s divinely inspired and infallible. And you’re entitled to your beliefs. But the Bible is no different than the Koran, the Vedas, the Upanishads, the Book of Mormon, or even L. Ron Hubbard’s Dianetics. They’re all products of the human imagination. Yes, the Bible has some historical fact. So does Homer’s Iliad. But it’s mixed in with a lot of fable, folklore, fantasy, fallacy, and fabrication.

(How’s that for alliteration? :oldthumbsup:)
You have missed the Author of the Bible, including how He baptize's people with Power from On High - the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Without knowing the Power on High and how He takes scripture by scripture and by His Holy Spirit reveals and teaches us from His Word, the Bible.

Your position is of the dust (elements) and man's intellectual power.

May I say you have not begun to learn what you need to about Idolatry before Him, and how Science has become an idol within many in Modern Times.

Yes, as with other idolatry, repentance is required - a person is to not walk in promoting science as the way to truth above Him leading people by His Spirit into truth. A substitute that is to be forsaken.

But dust-based thoughts cannot fathom the act of idolitry before Him, only justification of one's self-acquired knowledge. Knowledge that has many items missing in order to be able to understand their predicament.

You are missing the Power of the Holy Spirit in our midst. And what He reveals.

20170630_121958 2 (1).jpg
 
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jayem

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Your position is of the dust (elements) and man's intellectual power.

I would say that your belief is exactly the same. God may seem very real to you, but your god, and all the gods, of all religions, are products of the brain. They exist as learned neural pathways. Your personality, and all of your thoughts and memories--everything that makes you a unique person, are functions of electrochemical neuronal activity.

You are missing the Power of the Holy Spirit in our midst. And what He reveals.

But if God is real, I might still become a believer. Many times, on these forums and elsewhere, I've heard Christians saying that they want to find God's plan for their lives. That presumes that God has already decided their life's direction. And if the Christian God is the only god, it further implies that God must have a plan for everyone's life. So wouldn't that plan include who believes and who doesn't? I may be an atheist, but I'm a Calvinist atheist. If there really is a sovereign God, then logically, he has already decided who will and who won't believe. If it's God's will that I believe, then he will arrange events so that it happens. And I never come to belief, then either there is no sovereign God. Or I was never meant to be a believer. Am I making myself clear?
 
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Justatruthseeker

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I would say that your belief is exactly the same. God may seem very real to you, but your god, and all the gods, of all religions, are products of the brain. They exist as learned neural pathways. Your personality, and all of your thoughts and memories--everything that makes you a unique person, are functions of electrochemical neuronal activity.
Which is why God is Energy/Mind/Thought, not a physical thing.

Thought doesn't occur in the flesh of the brain, it occurs in the spark between the gaps.....

I so wish I could find that video again of where they cut open a mouses brain case and you could see the electrical energy flowing with every thought....

But if God is real, I might still become a believer. Many times, on these forums and elsewhere, I've heard Christians saying that they want to find God's plan for their lives. That presumes that God has already decided their life's direction. And if the Christian God is the only god, it further implies that God must have a plan for everyone's life. So wouldn't that plan include who believes and who doesn't? I may be an atheist, but I'm a Calvinist atheist. If there really is a sovereign God, then logically, he has already decided who will and who won't believe. If it's God's will that I believe, then he will arrange events so that it happens. And I never come to belief, then either there is no sovereign God. Or I was never meant to be a believer. Am I making myself clear?
Ahh, but that is deterministic thinking. yet God also gave us free will, that whosoever believeth, not whosoever has been predetermined to believe.... by wanting to find God's plan, it is simply wanting to find the course in life that God has seen is the best course, but of course one is always free to take the other path. There are thousands of choices one can make every day that can impact our lives for better or worse. We just ask God to help us make the right choices, but He certainly is not going to force anyone to take any path.

Even Moses could have refused and even asked God, why me?

Let's look at it this way. If I knew the outcome of every choice you would make, would that make your life predetermined? No, it simply means I know what will happen for whatever choices you make, but each choice is still yours to make, just the outcomes will be different, to which I already know where they would lead. So would you hope I might give your subconscious a nudge now and then to help you choose what was best for you, since I see the outcome of every choice unfolding? If you have 10 choices today that lead to 10 choices that lead to 10 more, God has already seen the outcome from all of them, but you are free to choose any of the forks in the path of your life you wish to take, with or without His help....

Should we set all convicted murderers and rapists go, because it was predetermined and they had no choice? That belief makes God into an evil being, whether they realize what they imply or not.....
 
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jayem

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Ahh, but that is deterministic thinking. yet God also gave us free will, that whosoever believeth, not whosoever has been predetermined to believe.... by wanting to find God's plan, it is simply wanting to find the course in life that God has seen is the best course, but of course one is always free to take the other path. There are thousands of choices one can make every day that can impact our lives for better or worse. We just ask God to help us make the right choices, but He certainly is not going to force anyone to take any path.

We're getting off-topic here. Personally, I don't believe Bible stories of supernatural events. But believers do. And the Bible records direct divine intervention to influence a person's beliefs. Saul of Tarsus was a Pharisee and a persecutor of Christians. What would you call Jesus appearing him on the Damascus road and striking him blind for 3 days? I'd say that's more than a nudge. So my question is how can any Christian know if his belief resulted from his own free-will choice, or if it was God's direct influence--perhaps on his subconscious mind? Suppose a non-believer is in a serious personal crisis and in deep despair. And with nowhere else to turn, he calls out to God for strength. How do you know that wasn't God's doing all along? If God really is the absolute sovereign of the universe, then nothing can occur that is not part of his plan. And it seems to me that would logically include who is a believer, and who is not.

This is an interesting discussion. But it should be in a separate thread.
 
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AV1611VET

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If God really is the absolute sovereign of the universe, then nothing can occur that is not part of his plan. And it seems to me that would logically include who is a believer, and who is not.
God is not a Calvinist.
 
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jayem

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God is not a Calvinist.

You sure about that?

For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

Romans 8:29-30

But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

2 Thessalonians 2:13

He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,…

Ephesians 1:5
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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Which is why God is Energy/Mind/Thought, not a physical thing.

Thought doesn't occur in the flesh of the brain, it occurs in the spark between the gaps.....

I so wish I could find that video again of where they cut open a mouses brain case and you could see the electrical energy flowing with every thought....
Except that there is no current flow along neurons, just a wave of membrane depolarization where sodium ions flood across the membrane into the cell; and there is no 'spark' in the gaps, just molecules of neurotransmitters diffusing across the synapse.
 
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