Scientific method of diagnosis

[Entropy82]

I had been involved with the occult and demonology previously and afterwards endured psychosis type symptoms. Such as negative voices, feeling evil presences, night terrors, screaming in terror while wide awake etc. That was 8 years ago. But since then I think it was demonic. I have been off meds a long time. But need to know what is a truly scientific method to diagnose me and reassure me it was a biological medical condition? as my doctor keeps encouraging me to take meds.

 

[Quid est Veritas?]

Medicine functions by Evidence-Based Medicine (EBM), in which studies are done and data collected and then by statistical analysis, treatment suggested. Thus there was improvement of symptoms observed when taking the medications within the studies for them to remain in use. Your psychiatrist probably gave you an EBM treatment based on the symptoms and signs he saw you display. It is a practical method.
EBM is empirical, but is however not scientific as it doesn't conform to Scientific Method, and unfortunately there is no way to determine if psychiatric disease is fully organic or psychological. The brain undergoes neuroplasticity, alters itself as per the experience we find ourselves in, so we are in a chicken or egg situation- did symptoms cause brain changes or brain changes symptoms, or variations of psychological/organic causes? If it could be shown fully organic, it would be neurology, if fully not organic, psychology. If we throw spiritual entities into the mix, then even more so.

When it comes to reality testing and psychosis, there is really no objective way of determining cause, so a lot rests on your perception thereof and the perception of those affected thereby during the psychosis. If a psychiatrist gave you meds, there were no substances involved otherwise, and you got better, then perhaps ascribing it to psychiatric disease is reasonable. You could check up the DSM criteria that best fit what you experienced, for this is the closest you'd get to a 'scientific' diagnosis, but even this is horribly subjective and rife with materialist biases. I implore you though, to not disregard your psychiatrist - they are trained and trying their best to help the mentally ill, even if it is difficult to determine factors around this.

 

[Entropy82]

Hi, thanks for your thoughtful reply on EBM. Gives me more insight. It is my GP who is trying to get me back on meds because of the diagnosis when I question. I have been reading up on psychiatry to find answers to the problems I had including some of the DSM. I was referred to a neurologist at the time he didn’t have answers for the screaming and night terrors. Which also wasn’t considered schizophrenia. My main symptoms were screaming in terror and night terrors, nightmares and feeling a presence. The hospital diagnosed me with schizophrenia because I felt a dark presence and heard voices on two occasions as my ex-wife explained to the hospital where she worked. No symptoms were displayed on the wards according to my previous psychologist who read the reports. Only at home. However, I’ve applied for the freedom of information reports myself to confirm which I’m waiting. So far, I don’t understand why I should be on medication for life. Or that that they were effective for me as symptoms abruptly stopped and haven’t returned. I have found that there are some psychiatrists who question the chemical imbalance theory that is has no scientific basis although a minority. I just want to know that what I have is a permanent medical condition that it is in fact medical. It would reassure me there are no demons. I would then resume meds and drop what I think was spiritual and live life without worrying about there being any spiritual dimension or fear of afterlife. I just need to be personally sure about all this.

 

[Quid est Veritas?]

Hi, thanks for your thoughtful reply on EBM. Gives me more insight. It is my GP who is trying to get me back on meds because of the diagnosis when I question. I have been reading up on psychiatry to find answers to the problems I had including some of the DSM. I was referred to a neurologist at the time he didn’t have answers for the screaming and night terrors. Which also wasn’t considered schizophrenia. My main symptoms were screaming in terror and night terrors, nightmares and feeling a presence. The hospital diagnosed me with schizophrenia because I felt a dark presence and heard voices on two occasions as my ex-wife explained to the hospital where she worked. No symptoms were displayed on the wards according to my previous psychologist who read the reports. Only at home. However, I’ve applied for the freedom of information reports myself to confirm which I’m waiting. So far, I don’t understand why I should be on medication for life. Or that that they were effective for me as symptoms abruptly stopped and haven’t returned. I have found that there are some psychiatrists who question the chemical imbalance theory that is has no scientific basis although a minority. I just want to know that what I have is a permanent medical condition that it is in fact medical. It would reassure me there are no demons. I would then resume meds and drop what I think was spiritual and live life without worrying about there being any spiritual dimension or fear of afterlife. I just need to be personally sure about all this.

The neurotransmitter imbalance theory is largely based on the efficacy of antidepressants and that certain drugs elicit depression, along with the fact that all anti-psychotics have D2 receptor action. It has however not been demonstrated in vivo, and is only one of a number of theories - although as the simplest one with a ready cause, the common one told to laypersons or vaguely remembered from medical school. One of the big problems with its use in depression is that different antidepressants of different modes of action, have similar effects. This suggests a common mode of action, and some meta-analyses done by Irving Kitsch suggested that secondary Placebo effect is a strong candidate, except in the case of Sertraline. Secondary Placebo effect is where a study was done with an inert placebo, but active drug, so that side-effects experienced made aware which was drug and which placebo. By the arcane rules of EBM, antidepressants use is still supported, but by slim margins of the confidence interval.

Look, I am a doctor, and I would not prescribe drugs to an asymptomatic individual myself. I don't know what your GP is thinking here, but maybe get a second opinion? Perhaps it is required. Context is king and I haven't examined you myself, so let another doctor do so. Just remember, Psychiatry is a young discipline with very obscure and procrustean diagnoses. We know far less about how the human body works then laypeople think, believe me.
When you were discharged from hospital, they likely put you on meds with a follow-up date. When and how did you stop them? Did you do so yourself or did a medical professional do so? The neurologist seemed to exclude purely organic, so you fall very much into the dark nomansland between them and psychological problems, so I doubt very much you will be able to determine if you do in fact have a chronic medical condition. Especially retro-actively, I doubt you will remove any ambiguity on your condition by those medical reports.

 

[Larniavc]

I had been involved with the occult and demonology previously and afterwards endured psychosis type symptoms. Such as negative voices, feeling evil presences, night terrors, screaming in terror while wide awake etc. That was 8 years ago. But since then I think it was demonic. I have been off meds a long time. But need to know what is a truly scientific method to diagnose me and reassure me it was a biological medical condition? as my doctor keeps encouraging me to take meds.

It is because when people are on meds they recover.

When they stop taking meds the symptoms return.

It really is that simple.

That said, two audio hallucinations does not satisfy a diagnosis of schizophrenia.

Your symptoms at face value indicate an anxiety disorder.

 

[Entropy82]

I did get two second opinions. The first one recommended by my doctor maintained the status quo. However, the alternative psychiatrist I found given me a diagnosis of severe anxiety and put me on propranolol. He was baffled how the hospital initially given me a diagnosis of schizophrenia. It had taken around six months to come off meds just over a year ago. When I tried myself to come off meds previously, I experienced bipolar type symptoms after 3 weeks of cessation I received an instant diagnosis of schizoaffective by the hospital after a thyroid test. The psychiatrist I seen after this said it was a withdraw symptom from abruptly ceasing abilify. My GP isn’t happy with the anxiety diagnosis which he claims the psychiatrist is downplaying the hospital diagnosis and wants me to get another second opinion. Maybe I should change to another GP, with an open mind but I’m not sure if that will work or if I can get the label removed.

 

[LaSorcia]

While I can't give you any medical advice, have you ever heard of schizoaffective disorder? Some of the symptoms you describe overlap with diagnostic criteria for this disorder.

 

[Quid est Veritas?]

I did get two second opinions. The first one recommended by my doctor maintained the status quo. However, the alternative psychiatrist I found given me a diagnosis of severe anxiety and put me on propranolol. He was baffled how the hospital initially given me a diagnosis of schizophrenia. It had taken around six months to come off meds just over a year ago. When I tried myself to come off meds previously, I experienced bipolar type symptoms after 3 weeks of cessation I received an instant diagnosis of schizoaffective by the hospital after a thyroid test. The psychiatrist I seen after this said it was a withdraw symptom from abruptly ceasing abilify. My GP isn’t happy with the anxiety diagnosis which he claims the psychiatrist is downplaying the hospital diagnosis and wants me to get another second opinion. Maybe I should change to another GP, with an open mind but I’m not sure if that will work or if I can get the label removed.

Look, you have too many diagnoses floating around here. You need to do some research and then decide which of these doctors you trust based thereon. As I said, psychiatry is a very context-based and subjective discipline - there is no hard test with good specificity for these conditions. They are based on clinical acumen. Good luck.

 

[Entropy82]

Thank you for your reply doctor and your contribution. I forgot to add I also had PTSD suggested by my clinical psychologist which makes it more confusing. I guess I’ll have to do more research on diagnosis which feels never ending it feels harder as I have also had a neuropsychological assessment done and they diagnosed a severe learning disability as well although separate from mental health. One of them has to be right, but I honestly feel despair.. maybe It's best I stay away from religious beliefs as I feel it could make me worse and confuse me more.