Scholastic Book Fairs accommodate state censorship efforts by segregating some titles (including "I am Ruby Bridges") into an optional collection

[Merrill]

The idea that books are "banned" in schools is a fake left-wing narrative.

Schools, state boards of education, etc. have always had discretion as to what titles get carried in school libraries. For those here who are making the argument that schools should basically carry all texts, regardless of merit and content, I'd like to ask:

1. Should schools also carry David Duke's memoir "My Awakening"? How about some of the ideological and political books from publishers like Arktos or Counter-Currents?
2. If schools have to keep books from CRT theorists on their shelves (Ibram X. Kendi, Robin DeAngelo, etc.), should they also carry books from the European New Right? From authors like Guillaume Faye and Alain DeBenoist?
3. If you want schools to offer up LGBT books that give advice about dating, seeking out casual sex, etc., should the schools also carry books from the Manosphere, pick-up-artists, etc.?

It sure seems to me that the far-left wants their books included in school libraries, but would be the first to protest if books that went against their narrative were included in the stacks

In the last 10 years, the woke left has embarked on numerous censorship campaigns.

They demanded ideologically or politically controversial books (even satire) be removed from Amazon and Barnes and Noble

Amazon is banning books and films they don’t like

Every move Amazon makes is big enough to trigger ripples throughout the world. Even a quiet book banning is causing a controversy.

www.komando.com

they demanded publishers refuse to publish Trump's memoirs

Open letter calls for publishing boycott of Trump administration memoirs

More than 500 book industry professionals have added their names to a call for publishers not to sign up veterans of the departing president’s government

www.theguardian.com

and as one journalist points out "In fact, progressive librarians already practice a form of book banning by not ordering books seen as “conservative,” ordering very few copies of them, or not featuring them prominently compared with liberal titles. For example, the public library system in Pinellas County, where I live, owns no copies of Johnny the Walrus, a children’s book by Daily Wire contributor Matt Walsh, though it has nearly 8,000 reviews on Amazon and a 4.9-star average rating"

the woke left views speech as violence, and they overwhelmingly support curbs on free expression, and formal, government-enforced "hate speech laws".

‘Your speech is violence’: the left’s new mantra to justify campus violence

We are raising a generation of censors and speech-phobics.

thehill.com

so it is completely absurd that they would complain about books not being included in school libraries. Galactic levels of hypocrisy

 

[essentialsaltes]

They demanded ideologically or politically controversial books (even satire) be removed from Amazon and Barnes and Noble

they demanded publishers refuse to publish Trump's memoirs

'They' are not government actors. Neither are Amazon, Barnes and Noble or other publishers.

State legislators and school boards are government actors. They are obliged to abide by the First Amendment and established First Amendment law.

 

[Merrill]

'They' are not government actors. Neither are Amazon, Barnes and Noble or other publishers.

State legislators and school boards are government actors. They are obliged to abide by the First Amendment and established First Amendment law.

well you dodged my initial question, which ties into this

if you think First Amendment rights are basically absolute within a school context, and that schools should carry materials promoting LGBT, promiscuity, drug-use, etc., what is to stop them from also providing students with far-right materials, or texts that are openly racist?

it sure seems to me the underlying argument here is that the First Amendment and freedom of expression only apply to books and materials that the far-left approves of --even if those books and materials are considered objectionable to 90% of the parent.

in reality, schools have to be judicious about what books are found on the shelves of school libraries.

 

[essentialsaltes]

well you dodged my initial question, which ties into this

if you think First Amendment rights are basically absolute within a school context.

Of course they aren't. We can have standards for age-appropriateness, obscenity, etc.

But what we're seeing is that books like this are being removed/relocated simply because there is any LGBT content. Not age-inappropriate content. One book was recently flagged for review because the author's name is Gay. We can have standards, but they need a rational basis, not an irrational basis that makes the existence of gay people or the history of the civil rights movement untouchable.

 

[Merrill]

Of course they aren't. We can have standards for age-appropriateness, obscenity, etc.

But what we're seeing is that books like this are being removed/relocated simply because there is any LGBT content. Not age-inappropriate content. One book was recently flagged for review because the author's name is Gay. We can have standards, but they need a rational basis, not an irrational basis that makes the existence of gay people or the history of the civil rights movement untouchable.

View attachment 338189

Well here is how it typically plays out

Plain-vanilla LGBT book, like the one above, which is barely objectionable, gets approved, and is carried by the library

Then activists push for much more controversial books, such as "Lawn Boy", "Gender-Queer" (explicit), "Flamer" (outright pederastic), to be carried by school libraries

the second anyone pushes back, the activists start complaining about book bans and discrimination

this is literary grooming: getting kids to read the slightly edgy LGBT texts, in order to introduce them to hardcore content and ideology. The people who want that stuff in schools have an agenda

 

[essentialsaltes]

Well here is how it typically plays out
Then activists push for much more controversial books, such as "Lawn Boy", "Gender-Queer" (explicit), "Flamer" (outright pederastic), to be carried by school libraries

Show us an example of this playing out. Activists pushing to add those books to a school library.

 

[Merrill]

Show us an example of this playing out. Activists pushing to add those books to a school library.

Governor Ron DeSantis Debunks Book Ban Hoax

www.flgov.com

the books didn't get into Florida libraries on their own --activist authors and publishers put them there.

from the link above:

Fact: Books found by parents in Florida schools:

• Gender Queer: A Memoir – an explicit, inappropriate contentographic book showing sex acts.
• Flamer – a graphic book about young boys performing sexual acts at a summer camp.
• This Book Is Gay – a book containing instructions on “the ins and outs of gay sex.”
• Let’s Talk About It – a book that contains graphic depictions about how to touch for males and females.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Governor Ron DeSantis Debunks Book Ban Hoax

www.flgov.com

the books didn't get into Florida libraries on their own --activist authors and publishers put them there.

What? 'Activists' snuck in there and left them on the shelves? Nonsense.

They were put there by school librarians who ordered them.

 

[Merrill]

What? 'Activists' snuck in there and left them on the shelves? Nonsense.

They were put there by school librarians who ordered them.

activists write and publish these books --they don't all come from Scholastic

and activists complain when school libraries refuse to put them on the shelves

some librarians are literal activists

 

[essentialsaltes]

activists write and publish these books --they don't all come from Scholastic

and activists complain when school libraries refuse to put them on the shelves

some librarians are literal activists

So no examples of how this "typically plays out"?
"Activists push for much more controversial books ... to be carried by school libraries"

Instead the librarians are clandestine 'activists' choosing books for a diverse audience that get awards and good reviews (complete with age appropriateness guidelines) from library associations and other organizations?

 

[Tropical Wilds]

The idea that books are "banned" in schools is a fake left-wing narrative.

Schools, state boards of education, etc. have always had discretion as to what titles get carried in school libraries. For those here who are making the argument that schools should basically carry all texts, regardless of merit and content, I'd like to ask:

1. Should schools also carry David Duke's memoir "My Awakening"? How about some of the ideological and political books from publishers like Arktos or Counter-Currents?
2. If schools have to keep books from CRT theorists on their shelves (Ibram X. Kendi, Robin DeAngelo, etc.), should they also carry books from the European New Right? From authors like Guillaume Faye and Alain DeBenoist?
3. If you want schools to offer up LGBT books that give advice about dating, seeking out casual sex, etc., should the schools also carry books from the Manosphere, pick-up-artists, etc.?

It sure seems to me that the far-left wants their books included in school libraries, but would be the first to protest if books that went against their narrative were included in the stacks

In the last 10 years, the woke left has embarked on numerous censorship campaigns.

They demanded ideologically or politically controversial books (even satire) be removed from Amazon and Barnes and Noble

Amazon is banning books and films they don’t like

Every move Amazon makes is big enough to trigger ripples throughout the world. Even a quiet book banning is causing a controversy.

www.komando.com

they demanded publishers refuse to publish Trump's memoirs

Open letter calls for publishing boycott of Trump administration memoirs

More than 500 book industry professionals have added their names to a call for publishers not to sign up veterans of the departing president’s government

www.theguardian.com

and as one journalist points out "In fact, progressive librarians already practice a form of book banning by not ordering books seen as “conservative,” ordering very few copies of them, or not featuring them prominently compared with liberal titles. For example, the public library system in Pinellas County, where I live, owns no copies of Johnny the Walrus, a children’s book by Daily Wire contributor Matt Walsh, though it has nearly 8,000 reviews on Amazon and a 4.9-star average rating"

the woke left views speech as violence, and they overwhelmingly support curbs on free expression, and formal, government-enforced "hate speech laws".

‘Your speech is violence’: the left’s new mantra to justify campus violence

We are raising a generation of censors and speech-phobics.

thehill.com

so it is completely absurd that they would complain about books not being included in school libraries. Galactic levels of hypocrisy

If you don’t think there’s such a thing as a banned book, you are very ignorant as to what is actually going on in schools and libraries across the country. As somebody who volunteers in two separate school systems, including doing RIF days and School Book Sales, and has far more knowledge on the subject than you obviously do, I can absolutely tell you based on my wide experience that there is such a thing as a banned book and calls to ban books.

I can also tell you that pushes to include books that teach how to have casual sex are figments of the imagination of the sexually fixated Conservative right who thrive on other people winding them up and coining easy to remember but meaningless labels like “woke” and “sheep” and “snowflake” that they can bandy about when challenged on their nonsensical viewpoint. You know, group that waits for who they’re told the next societal boogeyman is so they can launch off on how that is the issue to all of their problems.

As for the “but they’re doing it so it’s ok for us to do it too” or “but they did it so are you going to say anything to them about it?” argument, I’ll say the same thing I say to my kids when one deploys that tactic after getting chided for bad behavior… If I see them doing it, I’ll say something to them, but until then I’m dealing with you. The discussion isn’t about the banning of those books, it’s about Scholastic being forced to come up with categories for their product so they don’t accidentally get educators arrested for having it on hand because we now live in a world where a book about having two moms can get a teacher sued, fired, or arrested, which is ludicrous.

If Tiffany Trump wants to publish a memoir, let her. If some whacko from the Daily Mail wants to publish a subversive book about gender identity or any other topic he doesn’t get, go for it. Publish them. Read them if you’re so inclined. Make them available. And if any of them cross my doorstep with my kids and I don’t like the content, that’s where I, as a parent, step in to do my job. That’s when I explain the flaws of the book, the ideology lapses, redirect misinformation to accurate information, and otherwise do as a parent what is one of the base functions of being a parent. I do not take the book, go to the school, and say your kid can’t have access to it because it’s inaccurate, against my morals, or has no relevance.

In fact, my MIL is constantly sending our kids books by my favorite hypocrites like Bill O’Reilly, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, etc, much to the consternation of my almost 17 year old very Liberal son. You know what I did the first time it happened? Told him he should read it. See what it says. Educate himself on what other people of different ideologies are saying. He did, he hated it, but he became more informed about the world around him. Then we put it in the free library for somebody else to take home. And that’s what he does for all the books now. He reads them, then gives them away.

Some of us believe information and free access to books, even if they say things we don’t like, isn’t a cause for apoplexy. You don’t like books about two moms? Don’t read them. If your kids read them, contextualize it. Discuss it. Tell them you don’t agree with the book and why. Nobody is saying that if you don’t like the two moms book you can’t say that your religion forbids same sex marriage. Your rights end, however, at saying that because you don’t like it, my kids can’t have access to it and the teachers who facilitate the access should be held legally accountable.

At some point, personal accountability needs to kick in and if you’re choosing to adopt an ideology, you need to be the one who is the parent and does the parenting, not demanding the whole of society change to accommodate your choice to bubble wrap you and your kids from reality. Same sex relationships exist. Transgender people exist. White people have done pretty awful things to minorities in the name of religion, prejudice, and hate. Banning books that talk about it does not change any of those facts.

 

[Merrill]

If you don’t think there’s such a thing as a banned book, you are very ignorant as to what is actually going on in schools and libraries across the country. As somebody who volunteers in two separate school systems, including doing RIF days and School Book Sales, and has far more knowledge on the subject than you obviously do, I can absolutely tell you based on my wide experience that there is such a thing as a banned book and calls to ban books.

I can also tell you that pushes to include books that teach how to have casual sex are figments of the imagination of the sexually fixated Conservative right who thrive on other people winding them up and coining easy to remember but meaningless labels like “woke” and “sheep” and “snowflake” that they can bandy about when challenged on their nonsensical viewpoint. You know, group that waits for who they’re told the next societal boogeyman is so they can launch off on how that is the issue to all of their problems.

As for the “but they’re doing it so it’s ok for us to do it too” or “but they did it so are you going to say anything to them about it?” argument, I’ll say the same thing I say to my kids when one deploys that tactic after getting chided for bad behavior… If I see them doing it, I’ll say something to them, but until then I’m dealing with you. The discussion isn’t about the banning of those books, it’s about Scholastic being forced to come up with categories for their product so they don’t accidentally get educators arrested for having it on hand because we now live in a world where a book about having two moms can get a teacher sued, fired, or arrested, which is ludicrous.

If Tiffany Trump wants to publish a memoir, let her. If some whacko from the Daily Mail wants to publish a subversive book about gender identity or any other topic he doesn’t get, go for it. Publish them. Read them if you’re so inclined. Make them available. And if any of them cross my doorstep with my kids and I don’t like the content, that’s where I, as a parent, step in to do my job. That’s when I explain the flaws of the book, the ideology lapses, redirect misinformation to accurate information, and otherwise do as a parent what is one of the base functions of being a parent. I do not take the book, go to the school, and say your kid can’t have access to it because it’s inaccurate, against my morals, or has no relevance.

In fact, my MIL is constantly sending our kids books by my favorite hypocrites like Bill O’Reilly, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, etc, much to the consternation of my almost 17 year old very Liberal son. You know what I did the first time it happened? Told him he should read it. See what it says. Educate himself on what other people of different ideologies are saying. He did, he hated it, but he became more informed about the world around him. Then we put it in the free library for somebody else to take home. And that’s what he does for all the books now. He reads them, then gives them away.

Some of us believe information and free access to books, even if they say things we don’t like, isn’t a cause for apoplexy. You don’t like books about two moms? Don’t read them. If your kids read them, contextualize it. Discuss it. Tell them you don’t agree with the book and why. Nobody is saying that if you don’t like the two moms book you can’t say that your religion forbids same sex marriage. Your rights end, however, at saying that because you don’t like it, my kids can’t have access to it and the teachers who facilitate the access should be held legally accountable.

At some point, personal accountability needs to kick in and if you’re choosing to adopt an ideology, you need to be the one who is the parent and does the parenting, not demanding the whole of society change to accommodate your choice to bubble wrap you and your kids from reality. Same sex relationships exist. Transgender people exist. White people have done pretty awful things to minorities in the name of religion, prejudice, and hate. Banning books that talk about it does not change any of those facts.

"I can also tell you that pushes to include books that teach how to have casual sex are figments of the imagination of the sexually fixated Conservative right"

You have clearly never read, or have seen, the books in question here:

Numerous books, including "This Book is Gay" openly discuss sex parties, gay hookups, etc. Others offer advice for young studnents who want to engage in sexting with adult men.

The book "Lawn Boy" has been described as pedophilia (it features a passage describing sex with a fourth grader), and the book "Genderqueer" contains illustrations of kids engaging in sex acts

it clearly isn't conservatives who have a sexual fixation regarding youngsters here --conservatives aren't the ones writing these books, or arguing that they should be put in school libraries

No one is "banning books" --school officials, legislators, etc. are deciding which books should be in school libraries, as they have always done. And the books I mention above have absolutely no place in school libraries.

There is no "age appropriate" pedophilia, and inappropriate content doesn't belong in schools. Books like "Fifty Shades of Grey" shouldn't be in schools either.

and it isn't simply conservative parents who are arguing certain books shouldn't be in the schools. Liberal POC parents want books like 'To Kill a Mockingbird" and "Huckleberry Finn" pulled from the shelves

In Burbank schools, a book-banning debate over how to teach antiracism

Some argue the books under review — including "To Kill a Mockingbird" and two YA classics — instigated racist incidents; defenders believe they're antiracist.

www.latimes.com

 

[JustOneWay]

Scholastic isolates ‘diverse titles’ at book fairs as book challenges spike​

Scholastic is separating dozens of books focused on race and LGBTQ+ themes into a collection that elementary schools can decide whether to offer or exclude from their book fairs, the publisher announced in a statement Friday.

Scholastic created the collection to offer “diverse titles” at its book fairs in a way that would not violate those [state] laws, which the publisher said “create an almost impossible dilemma: back away from these titles or risk making teachers, librarians, and volunteers vulnerable to being fired, sued, or prosecuted.”

The 64 titles in Scholastic’s optional collection include stories of prominent figures of the civil rights movement and accounts of significant moments in U.S. history, including Andrea Davis Pinkney’s “Because of You, John Lewis,” Colin Kaepernick’s “I Color Myself Different” and “I Am Ruby Bridges,” written by the activist herself.

[and “Justice Ketanji,” a picture book about the life of Ketanji Brown Jackson]

“You really have to wonder what exactly does somebody think could conceivably be objectionable about this book?” [PEN America CEO] Nossel said.

The continued culture ware conducted by conservatives/republicans. This will backfire and they will lose teachers. I see home-schooling as the future for republican-run districts.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Liberal POC parents want books like 'To Kill a Mockingbird" and "Huckleberry Finn" pulled from the shelves

In Burbank schools, a book-banning debate over how to teach antiracism

Some argue the books under review — including "To Kill a Mockingbird" and two YA classics — instigated racist incidents; defenders believe they're antiracist.

www.latimes.com

I know you're sensitive about what is and isn't a ban. In this case, these books are being removed from the required reading list in the English syllabus, not "pulled from the shelves" of the library.

 

[Merrill]

I know you're sensitive about what is and isn't a ban. In this case, these books are being removed from the required reading list in the English syllabus, not "pulled from the shelves" of the library.

if librarians pull books from the shelves at a school library, on the direction of school officials, it isn't a "book ban"

no one is stopping anyone from ordering those books from Amazon, or finding them at a public library

The incidents I pointed to in my earlier posts featured left-wing activists literally trying to ban books by stopping them from being published altogether, getting them pulled out of online and physical book stores, in addition to schools

this is hypocrisy

 

[essentialsaltes]

this is hypocrisy

No, it's the First Amendment.

 

[Merrill]

No, it's the First Amendment.

there is no absolute First Amendment right to all texts and materials within the confines of a grammar school. Do you think schools should carry adult magazines?

 

[essentialsaltes]

there is no absolute First Amendment right to all texts and materials within the confines of a grammar school.

I already granted that.

The First Amendment doesn't restrict publishers or booksellers or 'activists'. If anything it frees them to say or not-say whatever they like.

 

[Hvizsgyak]

So which books from Scholastic would you object to on 'sexual' grounds?
View attachment 337966

Yep, this would definitely be one.

 

[Hvizsgyak]

What? 'Activists' snuck in there and left them on the shelves? Nonsense.

They were put there by school librarians who ordered them.

Alot of librarians are Pro-LGBTQ+ activists. Hence, they probably did sneak them in to the library.

Perceptions of Academic Librarians toward LGBTQ Information Needs: An Exploratory Study | Siegel | College & Research Libraries

crl.acrl.org