Saving your marriage. Should you try?

ProdigalGander

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Hello. I apologize in advance for the long post. I wanted to talk about my experience in trying to save a marriage and to get your thoughts and insights.

I am a divorced fifty-something male. My spouse of nearly 25 years began conducting what I guess you would call an emotional affair online with someone in the UK (I know him only by his screen name). I had gotten concerned that she appeared to be forsaking sleep for computer time. One day I discovered that she had gotten a passport and had an air ticket to England hidden in our bedroom. I was some combination of devastated and panicked. She was showing signs of not being all-there mentally, and the physical dangers of running off to another country for something like this were obvious.

I won’t go through all the details, which would fill a book. Like any other Christian I felt that my obligation was to do everything I possibly could to try and save my marriage. I called a well-known national Christian counseling organization, which offered to set me up with a local referral. I probably should have just quit at that point, because one of these referrals offered to come to my home and stage an intervention with guaranteed results……for $6000. (when I declined he offered to cut his price to $3800). But I persisted. They gave me another referral. I could not afford that gentleman’s fees, but he referred me to a colleague who was within my price range.

So I cajoled her into going to counseling with me. It did not go well. During the sessions she would go into panic attacks (which I am pretty sure were being faked, because she had never had one before in the close to three decades I had known her). The counselor thought she should be on psych meds. He kept after her about this, and eventually convinced her to go to a doctor he knew and get a prescription.

Once she started taking them her mental condition got much worse. She was exhibiting a whole range of very strange and disturbing symptoms. I was of course the one at home with her when this was happening, the doctor and the counselor were never around. It was at this point that the counselor announced that he had taken another job and was moving out of state. He referred my spouse to another counselor he knew. He said she could go alone, which I actually thought might be best for her. Unbeknownst to me the counselor to whom she was referred had a practice specialty in women who had been abused. My spouse went for a few weeks, then quit. Then one day she just packed-up and left.

She moved to another state and filed for divorce. I was stunned to find in the legal paperwork which was provided to my attorney that she had filed an affidavit from this doctor who had prescribed the meds, describing her mental condition and stating “Adult Emotional Abuse” as the cause.

I was shocked. And furious. The word “abuse” had never come up even once during our marriage. It was not something I had done or would ever do to her. And it seemed more than a coincidence that I was being accused of this not long after she had started seeing a Christian counselor who had a specialty practice for abused women. Did this give her any ideas? I can’t prove or disprove anything, but given the timing, what would you think if you were in my shoes?

Further I was shocked that a doctor could get away with this when absolutely NO medical evidence which would support that claim existed. My attorney said that “they just write down whatever the patient is saying on the chart all the time”. And it gets introduced in court??

In hindsight her claim appears to have been part of a scheme to scam SSI disability….a scheme that ultimately failed. But now I was in a position of having to defend my good name and reputation. I dug in for a legal fight. I filed ethics charges against a slew of people, had depositions taken, etc. Ultimately that all came to naught because the professionals involved all hid behind HIPAA and patient privacy. Apparently in this country those things are now a license to slander.

The only good thing I guess is that my spouse accepted a settlement proposal five seconds after my attorney tabled it. It seems after I had her doctor subpoenaed she didn’t want any part of having to defend her lies about me in a trial. But my good name had been sullied, and pretty much all of the people who were involved in that were walking away without consequence.

Looking at these events in the rear-view mirror I am led to one harsh and inescapable conclusion. Should I have tried to save my marriage?

The answer is no.

In the end my efforts only created an opportunity for her to concoct a lie about me that turned the whole thing into a big mess, dragging many other people into it in the process. Had I simply walked out and filed for divorce when I discovered her plans to go to England, the whole onus would have been squarely on her, where it belongs. She would have had to come to court and defend her quasi-adulterous behavior. No one else would need to have been dragged in. It would have been quicker and cleaner, and over much, much sooner.

But because I chose to fight to save my marriage I gave her the opportunity to do this to me, and to be assisted in that effort by so-called “Christian” professionals who apparently cared not a whit about the fallout from any of this on my end. Needless to say the Christian counseling profession has not exactly covered itself in glory where I’m concerned. They hang a cross on the wall and then hide behind HIPAA and patient confidentiality, which allows them to walk away from any responsibility. The whole field of Christian counseling now strikes me as being pretty “scammy” (as if the guy who was selling $6000 interventions shouldn’t have given me a clue).

I fought for the marriage because my entire life I had been taught that this was the Christian thing to do. That a marriage was sacred, and you needed to fight to protect it against all odds, no matter what.

Well, maybe this makes me a lousy Christian, but I no longer believe that to be the case. I tried to do the right thing, be a good Christian, a good husband, and I had the whole thing blow-up in my face and come back to bite me, bigtime. Many friends, pastors, even counselors, commended me for doing everything I could to try and save my marriage. But I’m convinced it was a mistake. If anyone in a similar situation asks my advice I am going to have to tell them “No! Do NOT try and save your marriage! Walk out and file for the divorce TODAY. Because there is a 98.9% probability that it is going to happen anyway. And your attempt to save the marriage may open you to a whole litany of much, much worse things.”

And the odds of success are extremely small.

So….does that make me a bad Christian?
 

Hieronymus

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It's a sad story..
But it seems to me (reading your OP) you haven't been aware of what seems to be the problem (why she distanced herself):
Her reasons to think of you as not a lousy Christian per se, but a lousy husband, perhaps...
Your feeling of obligation to try to save your marriage translated into seeking ways to submit her.
You hired some big guns (metaphorically speaking) to try to do so.
They failed though, and probably (apparently) only made it worse.

My post is probably not the reaction you were hoping for..
Sorry..
And it's only what i see based on 1 post, of course.
Maybe i should have asked first when this started to go in this direction.

It seems to me maybe you both weren't open hearted towards eachother.

Anyway, i think married couples should make an effort to save or rather grow their marriage.
This takes time, effort and humility from both parties though.
I don't think it's wise to rely on 3rd parties to fix it for you.

But don't get me wrong.
I'm not up to it at all.
But that's why i'm single and not pursuing a relationship.
 
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eleos1954

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Hello. I apologize in advance for the long post. I wanted to talk about my experience in trying to save a marriage and to get your thoughts and insights.

I am a divorced fifty-something male. My spouse of nearly 25 years began conducting what I guess you would call an emotional affair online with someone in the UK (I know him only by his screen name). I had gotten concerned that she appeared to be forsaking sleep for computer time. One day I discovered that she had gotten a passport and had an air ticket to England hidden in our bedroom. I was some combination of devastated and panicked. She was showing signs of not being all-there mentally, and the physical dangers of running off to another country for something like this were obvious.

I won’t go through all the details, which would fill a book. Like any other Christian I felt that my obligation was to do everything I possibly could to try and save my marriage. I called a well-known national Christian counseling organization, which offered to set me up with a local referral. I probably should have just quit at that point, because one of these referrals offered to come to my home and stage an intervention with guaranteed results……for $6000. (when I declined he offered to cut his price to $3800). But I persisted. They gave me another referral. I could not afford that gentleman’s fees, but he referred me to a colleague who was within my price range.

So I cajoled her into going to counseling with me. It did not go well. During the sessions she would go into panic attacks (which I am pretty sure were being faked, because she had never had one before in the close to three decades I had known her). The counselor thought she should be on psych meds. He kept after her about this, and eventually convinced her to go to a doctor he knew and get a prescription.

Once she started taking them her mental condition got much worse. She was exhibiting a whole range of very strange and disturbing symptoms. I was of course the one at home with her when this was happening, the doctor and the counselor were never around. It was at this point that the counselor announced that he had taken another job and was moving out of state. He referred my spouse to another counselor he knew. He said she could go alone, which I actually thought might be best for her. Unbeknownst to me the counselor to whom she was referred had a practice specialty in women who had been abused. My spouse went for a few weeks, then quit. Then one day she just packed-up and left.

She moved to another state and filed for divorce. I was stunned to find in the legal paperwork which was provided to my attorney that she had filed an affidavit from this doctor who had prescribed the meds, describing her mental condition and stating “Adult Emotional Abuse” as the cause.

I was shocked. And furious. The word “abuse” had never come up even once during our marriage. It was not something I had done or would ever do to her. And it seemed more than a coincidence that I was being accused of this not long after she had started seeing a Christian counselor who had a specialty practice for abused women. Did this give her any ideas? I can’t prove or disprove anything, but given the timing, what would you think if you were in my shoes?

Further I was shocked that a doctor could get away with this when absolutely NO medical evidence which would support that claim existed. My attorney said that “they just write down whatever the patient is saying on the chart all the time”. And it gets introduced in court??

In hindsight her claim appears to have been part of a scheme to scam SSI disability….a scheme that ultimately failed. But now I was in a position of having to defend my good name and reputation. I dug in for a legal fight. I filed ethics charges against a slew of people, had depositions taken, etc. Ultimately that all came to naught because the professionals involved all hid behind HIPAA and patient privacy. Apparently in this country those things are now a license to slander.

The only good thing I guess is that my spouse accepted a settlement proposal five seconds after my attorney tabled it. It seems after I had her doctor subpoenaed she didn’t want any part of having to defend her lies about me in a trial. But my good name had been sullied, and pretty much all of the people who were involved in that were walking away without consequence.

Looking at these events in the rear-view mirror I am led to one harsh and inescapable conclusion. Should I have tried to save my marriage?

The answer is no.

In the end my efforts only created an opportunity for her to concoct a lie about me that turned the whole thing into a big mess, dragging many other people into it in the process. Had I simply walked out and filed for divorce when I discovered her plans to go to England, the whole onus would have been squarely on her, where it belongs. She would have had to come to court and defend her quasi-adulterous behavior. No one else would need to have been dragged in. It would have been quicker and cleaner, and over much, much sooner.

But because I chose to fight to save my marriage I gave her the opportunity to do this to me, and to be assisted in that effort by so-called “Christian” professionals who apparently cared not a whit about the fallout from any of this on my end. Needless to say the Christian counseling profession has not exactly covered itself in glory where I’m concerned. They hang a cross on the wall and then hide behind HIPAA and patient confidentiality, which allows them to walk away from any responsibility. The whole field of Christian counseling now strikes me as being pretty “scammy” (as if the guy who was selling $6000 interventions shouldn’t have given me a clue).

I fought for the marriage because my entire life I had been taught that this was the Christian thing to do. That a marriage was sacred, and you needed to fight to protect it against all odds, no matter what.

Well, maybe this makes me a lousy Christian, but I no longer believe that to be the case. I tried to do the right thing, be a good Christian, a good husband, and I had the whole thing blow-up in my face and come back to bite me, bigtime. Many friends, pastors, even counselors, commended me for doing everything I could to try and save my marriage. But I’m convinced it was a mistake. If anyone in a similar situation asks my advice I am going to have to tell them “No! Do NOT try and save your marriage! Walk out and file for the divorce TODAY. Because there is a 98.9% probability that it is going to happen anyway. And your attempt to save the marriage may open you to a whole litany of much, much worse things.”

And the odds of success are extremely small.

So….does that make me a bad Christian?

from your story I'd say it makes you a victim by someone who has mental health issues.
Very sorry you experienced all this. You've been emotionally wounded. Forgive her and put this behind you. Move forward best you can with that mind set ... that along with prayer forgiveness ... will get you through. Tomorrow is a new day ... a new beginning.

Time will heal, the Lord will heal.

You did what you thought best and in accordance with your faith. What else can one do?

As far as advice ?? Sharing what you experienced ... but different people ... different outcomes ... some relationships heal ... some do not. One never knows.

May the Lord heal your heart and bring you peace. Amen
 
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Mario David

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You can always try, you cannot force. Love works in mysterious ways.
You are not a bad man, just make sure you have tried to truly understand her and the decisions she have taken.
 
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com7fy8

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Hi . . . welcome to Christian Forums. God bless you :)

You say your wife had an overseas Internet affair.
She would have had to come to court and defend her quasi-adulterous behavior.
There might be a legally bigger problem. Ones on the Net can be terrorist personnel masquerading as whoever in order to get money. I was told it is illegal to send money to people you do not know, overseas. This is in Massachusetts.

Many friends, pastors, even counselors, commended me for doing everything I could to try and save my marriage. But I’m convinced it was a mistake.
How you approached it could have been the wrong way.

"nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock." (1 Peter 5:3)

If we do something to reach a person we care about, I think it is humble to offer our efforts to God, for Him to evaluate and decide how He pleases to use our efforts. Of course, our efforts should be what He guides.

If anyone in a similar situation asks my advice I am going to have to tell them “No! Do NOT try and save your marriage! Walk out and file for the divorce TODAY. Because there is a 98.9% probability that it is going to happen anyway. And your attempt to save the marriage may open you to a whole litany of much, much worse things.”
Yes, how you do it can make problems. But if we stick with what God has us doing . . . it is not in vain, however the marriage turns out. God will satisfy us, God will prove Himself to us.

maybe you both weren't open hearted towards eachother.
In my case . . . amen, and thank you :) I need to look at myself, first.

"Husbands, love your wives and do not be bitter toward them." (Colossians 3:19)

different people ... different outcomes ...
And God is creative; He does not give us one-size-fits-all methods for every person and relationship.
 
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EJ M

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Christian men should absolutely try to save a marriage.
Men are to love their wives as Christ loved the church.
To what lengths does Christ go to save His erring children?
One of the best ways to strengthen/save any marriage is to pray together every morning, just the two of you. The evil one has an amazing amount of cunning ways to split families but greater is He that is in us than he that is in the world.
Jesus said He has all power in Heaven and on earth, that includes the power to save a troubled marriage if we ask Him.
 
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ValleyGal

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I know in hindsight it looks like you "shouldn't" have tried to save your marriage. But what about the alternative? Had you let her go when you found out about her plans, you might have always wondered whether if you tried a little harder, she might have changed her mind. Iow, you could have had regrets you'd then have to live with, and answer to God for.

The decisions you made at the time, you made with the best intentions, and your decisions led to further heartache. Isn't that what Jesus does, though? He pursues and pursues - both the saved and the unsaved. That is part of what it is to love your wife. You pursued her until you could no longer pursue her.

Imo, you did what you could, with what you had at the time. But... reflection is a good thing. One of the posters here mentioned the root of the issue - why did she distance herself emotionally from you to start with? Not saying it's your fault, because it's not. It's her fault for not turning towards you to discuss what her concerns were. And it might be somewhat yours as well, for whatever it was that she distanced herself from. No one knows those answers, but you can reflect on these things and ask God to search your heart and reveal the truth to you.

Divorce is painful. I know it all too well. But I also know that I have no regrets for giving it everything I had until I had nothing left... and now I know that I can stand before God and account for myself and my conduct in my marriage(s) with a clean heart. No, I was not perfect, but I did not sin in my attempts to make it work. And after losing everything I had, and much of who I was, I would always maintain that anyone considering divorce should do all they can with the information they have, to make the marriage work.

As for Christian counselling, I think you got a bad deal. But that does not mean all Christian counselling is bad. It means the ones you got were not helpful. There are others who do find it helpful. The secret to counselling of any kind is that both participants are equally committed to making it work, and both are equally willing to be transparent, vulnerable, and willing to do the hard work of rebuilding the relationship - a long, slow, painful process of brutal self-examination and self-honesty...and truly owning up to your own part in whatever issues led to distancing from each other.

Prayers for you as you navigate the healing process, and in reconciling your past so you can move on to the future. If there are children, even adult children, they need your support through all this too, so be there for them, be available, and validate their own painful experience in all this.
 
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longwait

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Hello. I apologize in advance for the long post. I wanted to talk about my experience in trying to save a marriage and to get your thoughts and insights.

I am a divorced fifty-something male. My spouse of nearly 25 years began conducting what I guess you would call an emotional affair online with someone in the UK (I know him only by his screen name). I had gotten concerned that she appeared to be forsaking sleep for computer time. One day I discovered that she had gotten a passport and had an air ticket to England hidden in our bedroom. I was some combination of devastated and panicked. She was showing signs of not being all-there mentally, and the physical dangers of running off to another country for something like this were obvious.

I won’t go through all the details, which would fill a book. Like any other Christian I felt that my obligation was to do everything I possibly could to try and save my marriage. I called a well-known national Christian counseling organization, which offered to set me up with a local referral. I probably should have just quit at that point, because one of these referrals offered to come to my home and stage an intervention with guaranteed results……for $6000. (when I declined he offered to cut his price to $3800). But I persisted. They gave me another referral. I could not afford that gentleman’s fees, but he referred me to a colleague who was within my price range.

So I cajoled her into going to counseling with me. It did not go well. During the sessions she would go into panic attacks (which I am pretty sure were being faked, because she had never had one before in the close to three decades I had known her). The counselor thought she should be on psych meds. He kept after her about this, and eventually convinced her to go to a doctor he knew and get a prescription.

Once she started taking them her mental condition got much worse. She was exhibiting a whole range of very strange and disturbing symptoms. I was of course the one at home with her when this was happening, the doctor and the counselor were never around. It was at this point that the counselor announced that he had taken another job and was moving out of state. He referred my spouse to another counselor he knew. He said she could go alone, which I actually thought might be best for her. Unbeknownst to me the counselor to whom she was referred had a practice specialty in women who had been abused. My spouse went for a few weeks, then quit. Then one day she just packed-up and left.

She moved to another state and filed for divorce. I was stunned to find in the legal paperwork which was provided to my attorney that she had filed an affidavit from this doctor who had prescribed the meds, describing her mental condition and stating “Adult Emotional Abuse” as the cause.

I was shocked. And furious. The word “abuse” had never come up even once during our marriage. It was not something I had done or would ever do to her. And it seemed more than a coincidence that I was being accused of this not long after she had started seeing a Christian counselor who had a specialty practice for abused women. Did this give her any ideas? I can’t prove or disprove anything, but given the timing, what would you think if you were in my shoes?

Further I was shocked that a doctor could get away with this when absolutely NO medical evidence which would support that claim existed. My attorney said that “they just write down whatever the patient is saying on the chart all the time”. And it gets introduced in court??

In hindsight her claim appears to have been part of a scheme to scam SSI disability….a scheme that ultimately failed. But now I was in a position of having to defend my good name and reputation. I dug in for a legal fight. I filed ethics charges against a slew of people, had depositions taken, etc. Ultimately that all came to naught because the professionals involved all hid behind HIPAA and patient privacy. Apparently in this country those things are now a license to slander.

The only good thing I guess is that my spouse accepted a settlement proposal five seconds after my attorney tabled it. It seems after I had her doctor subpoenaed she didn’t want any part of having to defend her lies about me in a trial. But my good name had been sullied, and pretty much all of the people who were involved in that were walking away without consequence.

Looking at these events in the rear-view mirror I am led to one harsh and inescapable conclusion. Should I have tried to save my marriage?

The answer is no.

In the end my efforts only created an opportunity for her to concoct a lie about me that turned the whole thing into a big mess, dragging many other people into it in the process. Had I simply walked out and filed for divorce when I discovered her plans to go to England, the whole onus would have been squarely on her, where it belongs. She would have had to come to court and defend her quasi-adulterous behavior. No one else would need to have been dragged in. It would have been quicker and cleaner, and over much, much sooner.

But because I chose to fight to save my marriage I gave her the opportunity to do this to me, and to be assisted in that effort by so-called “Christian” professionals who apparently cared not a whit about the fallout from any of this on my end. Needless to say the Christian counseling profession has not exactly covered itself in glory where I’m concerned. They hang a cross on the wall and then hide behind HIPAA and patient confidentiality, which allows them to walk away from any responsibility. The whole field of Christian counseling now strikes me as being pretty “scammy” (as if the guy who was selling $6000 interventions shouldn’t have given me a clue).

I fought for the marriage because my entire life I had been taught that this was the Christian thing to do. That a marriage was sacred, and you needed to fight to protect it against all odds, no matter what.

Well, maybe this makes me a lousy Christian, but I no longer believe that to be the case. I tried to do the right thing, be a good Christian, a good husband, and I had the whole thing blow-up in my face and come back to bite me, bigtime. Many friends, pastors, even counselors, commended me for doing everything I could to try and save my marriage. But I’m convinced it was a mistake. If anyone in a similar situation asks my advice I am going to have to tell them “No! Do NOT try and save your marriage! Walk out and file for the divorce TODAY. Because there is a 98.9% probability that it is going to happen anyway. And your attempt to save the marriage may open you to a whole litany of much, much worse things.”

And the odds of success are extremely small.

So….does that make me a bad Christian?

If your spouse wants to leave you then you don't need to struggle so much to cling on to her. Adultery and unfaithfulness is the only reason in the Bible where a divorce is justified. I know she didn't commit adultery when you found out but if she has no interest to continue her life with you then you are not the one who did wrong here, she is.
 
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ProdigalGander

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It's a sad story..
But it seems to me (reading your OP) you haven't been aware of what seems to be the problem (why she distanced herself):
Her reasons to think of you as not a lousy Christian per se, but a lousy husband, perhaps...
Your feeling of obligation to try to save your marriage translated into seeking ways to submit her.
You hired some big guns (metaphorically speaking) to try to do so.
They failed though, and probably (apparently) only made it worse.

My post is probably not the reaction you were hoping for..
Sorry..
And it's only what i see based on 1 post, of course.
Maybe i should have asked first when this started to go in this direction.

It seems to me maybe you both weren't open hearted towards eachother.

Anyway, i think married couples should make an effort to save or rather grow their marriage.
This takes time, effort and humility from both parties though.
I don't think it's wise to rely on 3rd parties to fix it for you.

But don't get me wrong.
I'm not up to it at all.
But that's why i'm single and not pursuing a relationship.

Thank you. No, I asked for honest feedback, and you have given it. It has occurred to me that in my zeal to help her I may have overreached and made the situation worse. I agree that getting third parties involved is not the best way. But she was showing symptoms of mental health issues that were frightening, and I was way in over my head on this. I thought that turning to professionals was the right thing to do, though at the end of the day I was shocked by their lack of accountability.

I know much more about mental health now thanks to this experience. But you are right, it would be arrogant and borderline delusional of me to believe that I did not make any mistakes in this.
 
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ProdigalGander

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In my naive youth, I would have said the same thing. All a Christian man can do is not be guilty of killing a marriage. He can't save it, not in today's culture. If he has a godly wife, the marriage won't need saving. If he has an ungodly wife, any effort to save the marriage will just make things worse.

I guess I have learned that is the case.
 
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ProdigalGander

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Hi . . . welcome to Christian Forums. God bless you :)

You say your wife had an overseas Internet affair.There might be a legally bigger problem. Ones on the Net can be terrorist personnel masquerading as whoever in order to get money. I was told it is illegal to send money to people you do not know, overseas. This is in Massachusetts.

How you approached it could have been the wrong way.

"nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock." (1 Peter 5:3)

If we do something to reach a person we care about, I think it is humble to offer our efforts to God, for Him to evaluate and decide how He pleases to use our efforts. Of course, our efforts should be what He guides.

Yes, how you do it can make problems. But if we stick with what God has us doing . . . it is not in vain, however the marriage turns out. God will satisfy us, God will prove Himself to us.

In my case . . . amen, and thank you :) I need to look at myself, first.

"Husbands, love your wives and do not be bitter toward them." (Colossians 3:19)

And God is creative; He does not give us one-size-fits-all methods for every person and relationship.

Regarding terrorists and criminals on the net, yes, that was absolutely an issue. My daughter was able to access some of the online chatter my wife had with this guy. It was flirtatious and immature. I suspect he thought she was much younger than she is. He was actively trying to recruit her to come to Britain. At one point she gave him banking information for one of our joint accounts, and there are indications she may have given him Social Security numbers. I am going to have to pay for identity protection for the rest of my life because of this.

My fear was if she got on that plane she would either end up in some Fifty Shades of Grey dungeon or become the victim of a good old fashioned financial crime. I went to the security people at Facebook, who completely ignored me (the people in charge of that company really are bad people, and will have much to answer for). Likewise authorities here did nothing. Police in Britain did acknowledge my report, and when she did get on that plane they refused to let her into the country, and sent her home the next day.

God Save the Queen. She did more for me in this situation than my own government ever did. No matter how many awful turns this story took at least my ex is still alive.
 
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ProdigalGander

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from your story I'd say it makes you a victim by someone who has mental health issues.
Very sorry you experienced all this. You've been emotionally wounded. Forgive her and put this behind you. Move forward best you can with that mind set ... that along with prayer forgiveness ... will get you through. Tomorrow is a new day ... a new beginning.

Time will heal, the Lord will heal.

You did what you thought best and in accordance with your faith. What else can one do?

As far as advice ?? Sharing what you experienced ... but different people ... different outcomes ... some relationships heal ... some do not. One never knows.

May the Lord heal your heart and bring you peace. Amen

I fully agree that I need to forgive my wife. She definitely has mental health issues which leave me wondering to what degree I should really hold her responsible.

The doctor and the counselors who got involved in this are another matter. They are presumably quite sane and highly educated (the doctor graduated from an Ivy League school). They enabled my ex to concoct this smear. But when I tried to call them out on this their professional organizations circled the wagons and shouted "HIPAA! Privacy! La la la la, my hands are over my ears and I can't hear you."

This needs to change. As a Catholic I know far too well what happens when there is no accountability.

I am not saying that they were bad people or had ill intent (except for Mr. $6000 Intervention). They were just cogs in a corrupt machine, grinding along. At the end of the day it's a bidness.
 
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com7fy8

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If people are love dead, they can be clueless about how to care for and feel for other people, no matter how they seem to be sane and educated. There are a lot of people who do not know how to love. And no laws and accountability can solve their problem.

I have been love clueless, myself > I fell for someone on the Net, didn't even see it coming. I was there to share with teaching and pen palling. But without even talking with her on the phone, I got in love with her.

But I understood that her pastor, even though he did not know about me, was trusting me to do good with her. So, I phoned him to let him know what was going on. He was kind of quiet, on hearing about us, and she kind of gasped, over the phone, when I told her that I had talked with him.

And I was like, why would you be stunned that I met with your own pastor???? I knew about lying to the Holy Spirit, and I was not about to try to hide anything. And he said things which were good for me. But he said not a word about her, I think I remember.

So, no confirmation from him could mean something. And things filtered through, from her, so I knew I needed to watch it.

And from this I know I can fool my own self about someone; falling in love can be falling, not really making sure with God and staying with Him.

I notice how a number of people point at someone else, when things go bad in their relating. But we can make sure with God, first, before we get started with anyone. We can make sure with God and do exactly what He has us doing, or we can excuse ourselves and blame someone else.

And He has people to help us. There are people whom God trusts to help us go the right way. And the Bible has all we have about how to submit to and obey God and how to relate and what Jesus expects of us for how to love. Then it is easier to see through myself and other people, I think I am finding.
 
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eleos1954

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I fully agree that I need to forgive my wife. She definitely has mental health issues which leave me wondering to what degree I should really hold her responsible.

The doctor and the counselors who got involved in this are another matter. They are presumably quite sane and highly educated (the doctor graduated from an Ivy League school). They enabled my ex to concoct this smear. But when I tried to call them out on this their professional organizations circled the wagons and shouted "HIPAA! Privacy! La la la la, my hands are over my ears and I can't hear you."

This needs to change. As a Catholic I know far too well what happens when there is no accountability.

I am not saying that they were bad people or had ill intent (except for Mr. $6000 Intervention). They were just cogs in a corrupt machine, grinding along. At the end of the day it's a bidness.

Well ... overall HIPAA is a good thing .... medical records should be kept personal.

It's back to the "say so" ... just because someone says so ... don't necessarily make it so. Sadly people manipulate and corrupt things and have bad hearts ... it's the world we live in right now.

As far as your wife goes ... accountability is justifying her actions and I really don't see how that is possible on your part ... that is between her and the Lord.

Forgive her and receive healing ... tomorrow is a new day! ;o)

God Bless.
 
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ProdigalGander

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Well ... overall HIPAA is a good thing .... medical records should be kept personal.

It's back to the "say so" ... just because someone says so ... don't necessarily make it so. Sadly people manipulate and corrupt things and have bad hearts ... it's the world we live in right now.

As far as your wife goes ... accountability is justifying her actions and I really don't see how that is possible on your part ... that is between her and the Lord.

Forgive her and receive healing ... tomorrow is a new day! ;o)

God Bless.

She was with her counselor maybe 90 minutes a week. The other 278 1/2 hours she was with me. They got her all hopped up on psych meds and dumped her back in my lap. They weren't working and made the situation worse, but I could not do anything because of HIPAA.

Yeah, I get it. Nobody would seek out or accept counseling without guarantees of confidentiality. But that has to be balanced against the fact that their family are the ones responsible for looking after them every day.

One thing I have learned about human nature is if you give people ANY wiggle room to evade accountability, they will.
 
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EJ M

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What did he do to try to save his marriage? I submit nothing he did was relevant to the marriage going 42 years and counting, other than not moving on himself and foreclosing the chance of his wife returning.

Of course, it's possible that the man actually did save his marriage through flowers or groveling, or whatever, it's just so unlikely that it's not worth the effort given the cost. The cost is the risk of causing the divorce to be all the more painfully, emotionally and financially, if it does come. Another cost is actually increasing the chance of divorce by trying to save the marriage, by looking weak or desperate, rather than strong and confident.
Prayers
 
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eleos1954

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She was with her counselor maybe 90 minutes a week. The other 278 1/2 hours she was with me. They got her all hopped up on psych meds and dumped her back in my lap. They weren't working and made the situation worse, but I could not do anything because of HIPAA.

Yeah, I get it. Nobody would seek out or accept counseling without guarantees of confidentiality. But that has to be balanced against the fact that their family are the ones responsible for looking after them every day.

One thing I have learned about human nature is if you give people ANY wiggle room to evade accountability, they will.

Yes, no doubt very difficult circumstances ... it seems in this case it was a timing thing ... that is ... she was already "straying" before she went to get help and then spiraled out of control.

I doubt she won't ... or even maybe can't accept any accountability right now, maybe in the future. If it's possible the Lord will make it happen.

Personally I always leave the accountability issue up to the Lord.
 
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ProdigalGander

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Yes, no doubt very difficult circumstances ... it seems in this case it was a timing thing ... that is ... she was already "straying" before she went to get help and then spiraled out of control.

I doubt she won't ... or even maybe can't accept any accountability right now, maybe in the future. If it's possible the Lord will make it happen.

Personally I always leave the accountability issue up to the Lord.

Yes but the Lord delegated to civil authorities (government) to regulate doctors and counselors. They all dropped the ball on this.
 
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eleos1954

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Yes but the Lord delegated to civil authorities (government) to regulate doctors and counselors. They all dropped the ball on this.

Yes, they did. Is it worth fighting? It is already in effect and will not be changed. So?
 
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