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saved by grace or by works

Ligurian

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Why do you ignore the Book of Acts?

Do you ignore any other parts of the Bible?

.

Galatians 2:7-8 is fact: there are two different gospels for two different peoples.

Remember Acts 15:20?... not much law-keeping is expected of the Gentiles.
Well, Peter was told in Matthew 5:18-20 to keep the Law of Commandments from the Sermon on the Mount, prefaced by the words "But I say unto you"... and told WHY to keep all of Iesus sayings on the Mount, in Matthew 7:24-25.

Therefore, the Peter that Luke is speaking of canNOT be the same Peter that Iesus discipled. If they were the same man, Iesus' Peter would be in direct violation to everything Iesus ever taught him... beginning with Matthew 10:5-7 and ending in Matthew 28:20... so the Glorified Lord told Peter to disciple the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel which were dispersed among the nations with the very words with which Iesus had discipled him.

Paul says in his mysteries that Gentiles would be saved... clearly this is NOT the Kingdom Gospel that Iesus taught, or it couldn't have been a "mystery" taught by Paul, 6+ years later.

Think carefully about all this... ... ...and then see if it makes any sense to you.
___________________________
The rest of this argument is here:
How can anyone like Calvinism?

and here:
To the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel
 
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Jonaitis

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i do beleive that Jesus is the son of God and has clear authority given to him from the Father, and therefore whatever he taught, i believe is what i should (try to) follow, and would like to clarify exactly what that is.
Well,
"If righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose."

- Galatians 2:21
Hinduism (particularly Advaita Vedanta) does not teach works-based salvation, so your friend is misinformed. They believe that liberation is achieved apart from the identification of one's own works, but rather through the clear recognition of one's true metaphysical nature.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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We are saved by grace through our faith. Ephesians 2:8 We are made to do good works Ephesians 2:10. We are not saved by works and there is nothing that we can do by ourselves that can save us. Everyone has sinned and fallen short, but with the power of Jesus Christ we can receive eternal life when we confess our sins and turn from sin. 1 John 1:9. Jesus wants a relationship with us and through that relationship we should start turning over our will and replace it with the will of God, through your relationship with Jesus your thoughts and actions will be changed. Jesus said “If you love Me, keep My commandments” John 14:15. You don’t keep His commandments to be saved, you keep them because you have a changed heart. It’s the fruit of ones faith.
 
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Ligurian

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Jesus said “If you love Me, keep My commandments” John 14:15. You don’t keep His commandments to be saved, you keep them because you have a changed heart. It’s the fruit of ones faith.

Which actually contradicts John 14:15-17, since the Holy Spirit is that by which Kingdom Believers are saved. And to aquire the Holy Spirit we are required to Keep His Commandments... which came from the Father, John 12:48-50, Deuteronomy 18:18-19.

Galatians 3:2-5 says there are two gospels... his "christ crucified" gospel is the one by which the holy spirit is given by faith alone... and miracles, signs and wonders follow that.
But the other gospel says the Holy Spirit is given by the works of Law... which is precisely what Iesus calls His Sermon on the Mount, Matthew 5:18-22. The threat of hell fire because of your failure to keep these Kingdom Commandments is the definition of works of the Law.

The fruits are also entirely different in these two gospels.
Because of Acts 15:20... we know that not much is expected of the gentiles in the way of law-keeping; their fruits seem to be emotional responses because of the faith-alone vehicle.
The fruits of the Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven are Iesus' Kingdom Law and the knowledge and growth thereof.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Which actually contradicts John 14:15-17, since the Holy Spirit is that by which Kingdom Believers are saved. And to aquire the Holy Spirit we are required to Keep His Commandments... which came from the Father, John 12:48-50, Deuteronomy 18:18-19.

I think you're missing the point. I am not disregarding that we do not need to keep the commandments of God including the 4th commandment but keeping the commandments to be saved is not going to save you. You cannot work your way into heaven. We are saved by God's grace, through faith. Ephesians 2:8 as everyone has sinned. Keeping the commandments is the fruit of a saved person, which is why one should test themselves to see if they are in the faith, but we are saved by God's sweet grace.

For those who obey and keep the commandments of God are given the Holy Spirit. John 14:15-18, Acts 5:32 but we are still saved by God's grace.

There is only one gospel, not two

Gal 1:6-9 -- there is only one Gospel
Gal 3:8 "THE Gospel was preached to Abraham"
Heb 4:2 "THE Gospel was preached to us just as it was to them also"

This is the fruit of a saved person according to the book of Revelation right before the Second Coming of Jesus Christ:

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
 
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Ligurian

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In Paul's gospel to the gentiles, Galatians says that there is "one gospel"--and seemingly implies the words: "for the gentiles"
... because he then goes on to describe the gospel for the circumcision in Ch.3.
... making Galatians 2:7 extremely literal, when the missing subject and verb in the second phrase are [penciled in] to make sense of the verse in English.
"when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me,
as [the gospel] of the circumcision [was committed] unto Peter"--KJV

And so, Romans 15:8 says that Iesus was a minister to the circumcision... to confirm the promises.
Now obviously, that's not that all Iesus preached to the circumcision... but to say the rest would've had Paul preaching what Iesus preached... which he certainly didn't do.
Not until Matthew 16:21 do we see Iesus preaching Himself crucified... and then only infrequently.
But virtually all of Paul's gospel stems from the fact that Iesus was crucified, and mankind's benefits derived from that act.

And then Paul makes the comment about the gospel preached to Abraham... which is beyond my understanding, since the Genesis 17 circumcision that was absolutely required of Abraham, takes it out of the realm of the gentiles... unless they become circumcised-proselytes.
Which Paul calls the mutilation of evil workers in Philippians 3:2... and even calls them dogs... meaning half-breed Samaritans to the Jews, back in the day... and apparently to Paul, too. (Paul's Benjamite ancestry grafts him into the southern tribes called "the house of Judah", via the divided kingdom of Solomon verses.)

So yes, there are two gospels... but only one gospel for the gentiles.

What amazes me is the fact that the uncircumcision feels the need to borrow from the 4 books of the Gospel of the Kingdom... which includes James, via the "faith without works is dead" sayings. (Matthew, John and Revelation are the other 3 books of the Gospel of the Kingdom... via John 15:26-27)
 
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SabbathBlessings

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According to the scripture there is no gentile or Jew if one is in Christ.

Gal. 3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Romans 2:28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; 29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.

There is one gospel, one Truth, one salvation for all. Thats why there is only two groups at the end, saved and lost.
 
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Ligurian

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Paul, the apostle to the gentiles.

Romans 11:13 Galatians 2:8 1 Corinthians 12:2 Ephesians 3:1

Paul calls himself a Jew AND a Benjamite...

Acts 21:39 But Paul said, I am a man [which am] a Jew of Tarsus, [a city] in Cilicia, a citizen of no mean city: and, I beseech thee, suffer me to speak unto the people.

Philippians 3:5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the (γένους)stock of Israel, [of] the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;KJV

... here's why:

1 Kings 12:21 And when Rehoboam was come to Jerusalem, he assembled all the house of Judah, with the tribe of Benjamin, an hundred and fourscore thousand chosen men, which were warriors, to fight against the house of Israel, to bring the kingdom again to Rehoboam the son of Solomon.KJV
______________
1 Kings 11:29-32 And it came to pass at that time, that Jeroboam went forth from Jerusalem, and Achia the Selonite the prophet found him in the way, and caused him to turn aside out of the way: and Achia was clad with a new garment, and they two were alone in the field. 30 And Achia laid hold of his new garment that was upon him, and tore it into twelve pieces: 31 and he said to Jeroboam, Take to thyself ten pieces, for thus saith the Lord God of Israel, Behold, I rend the kingdom out of the hand of Solomon, and will give thee ten tribes. 32 Yet he shall have two tribes, for My servant David’s sake and for the sake of Jerusalem, the city which I have chosen out of all the tribes of Israel.LXX
______________
But the House of Israel is the northern part of Solomon's divided kingdom.

Hosea 1:6-10 And she conceived again and bore a daughter. And He said to him, Call her name, Unpitied: for I will no more have mercy on the house of Israel, but will surely set Myself in array against them. 7 But I will have mercy on the house of Juda, and will save them by the Lord their God, and will not save them with bow, nor with sword, nor by war, nor by horses, nor by horsemen. 8 And she weaned Unpitied, and she conceived again and bore a son. 9 And he said, Call his name, Not My people: for ye are not My people, and I am not your God. 10 Yet the number of the children of Israel was as the sand of the sea, which shall not be measured nor numbered: and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said to them, Ye are not My people, even they shall be called the sons of the living God.

1 Peter 1:1, 1 Peter 2:10 Which in time past [were] not a people, but [are] now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.


Matthew 4:12-20 Now when Jesus had heard that John was cast into prison, He departed into Galilee.[13] And leaving Nazareth, He came and dwelt in Capernaum, which is upon the sea coast, in the borders of Zabulon and Nephthalim,[14] that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying,[15] The land of Zabulon and the land of Nephthalim, [by] the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, Galilee of the nations:[16] The people which sat in darkness saw great light, and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up.[17] From that time Iesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.

The Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven Prophecy

Isaiah 52:4-7 Thus saith the Lord, My people went down before to Egypt to sojourn there; and were carried away forcibly to the Assyrians.[5] And now why are ye here? Thus saith the Lord, Because My people was taken for nothing, wonder ye and howl. Thus saith the Lord, On account of you My name is continually blasphemed among the nations.[6] Therefore shall My people know My name in that day, for I am He that speaks*: I am present,[7] as a season of beauty upon the mountains, as the feet of one preaching glad tidings of peace, as one preaching good news*: for I will publish thy salvation, saying, O Sion, thy God shall reign*.LXX

* John 12:49-50 For I have not spoken of Myself: but the Father which sent Me, He gave Me a Commandment, what I should say and what I should speak.[50] And I know that His Commandment is Life Everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto Me, so I speak.

* Matthew 10:5-7 These Twelve Iesus sent forth and Commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:[6] But go rather to the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel.[7] And as ye go, preach, saying, The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.
* Matthew 24:14 And This Gospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations, and then shall the end come.

____________________
Which begs the question: How does
this Gospel of the Kingdom to the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel,
have any effect at all... upon Paul's gospel of grace to the gentiles and Judah?
 
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SabbathBlessings

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None of this changes that there are not two ways to be saved, only one, through faith by God’s grace regardless of race. Ephesians 2:8. Grace is God’s gift to give (or not) depending on the choices we make. Jesus is looking for a relationship with us. We foster this relationship by reading His Word, prayer and obedience. In doing so through the Holy Spirit we become changed and one of His sheep, He is the Shepard and there is only one fold.
 
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Ligurian

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None of this changes that there are not two ways to be saved, only one, through faith by God’s grace regardless of race.

How does
Paul's gospel of grace to the gentiles and Judah
have any effect at all upon
this Gospel of the Kingdom to the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel?


The Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven Prophecy

Isaiah 52:4-7 Thus saith the Lord, My people went down before to Egypt to sojourn there; and were carried away forcibly to the Assyrians.[5] And now why are ye here? Thus saith the Lord, Because My people was taken for nothing, wonder ye and howl. Thus saith the Lord, On account of you My name is continually blasphemed among the nations.[6] Therefore shall My people know My name in that day, for I am He that speaks: I am present,[7] as a season of beauty upon the mountains, as the feet of one preaching glad tidings of peace, as one preaching good news: for I will publish thy salvation, saying, O Sion, thy God shall reign.LXX

Isaiah 52:4-7 fulfilled:

John 12:44-50 48 He that rejecteth Me and receiveth not My words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.[49] For I have not spoken of Myself: but the Father which sent Me, He gave Me a Commandment, what I should say and what I should speak.[50] And I know that His Commandment is Life Everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto Me, so I speak.

Matthew 4:23 And Iesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.

Matthew 10:5 These Twelve Jesus sent forth and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into [any] city of the Samaritans enter ye not:[6] But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.[7] And as ye go, preach, saying, The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.
 
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Trivalee

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Bravo,
 
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SabbathBlessings

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The disciples were told to preach to the Jews first because its easier to convert someone who already has a foundation. It started with the Jews, but the gospel was also preached to the Gentiles. Acts 10-12

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.” Romans 1:16-17

We are all saved by God's grace, through our faith. Ephesians 2:8-9 The faith that we have is shown through our actions. This is the characteristics according to scripture of a saved person. Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

Same gospel. There are not two gospels or two salvations. We are all saved by God's grace, through our faith.
Gal 1:6-9 -- there is only one Gospel
Gal 3:8 "THE Gospel was preached to Abraham"
Heb 4:2 "THE Gospel was preached to us just as it was to them also"

We see this evident in the book of Revelation right before the Second Coming of Jesus Christ

Revelation 14:6 Then I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to those who dwell on the earth—to every nation, tribe, tongue, and people— 7 saying with a loud voice, “Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water.”
 
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Ligurian

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The disciples were told to preach to the Jews first because its easier to convert someone who already has a foundation.

"Rev. Canon Faucett M.A. says in his "Critical and Expository Bible Encyclopedia" The idea that the House of Israel has been amalgamated and incorporated with the "Jews," is one of the most amazing errors in Biblical History.
...
The book of Micah plainly teaches that the Jews who "halted" were to become "A remnant," while Israel "that was cast far off," was to become "a strong nation" (Micah 4:7). The bringing together of these "two families" is to be associated with the Kingdom-Age. Till then, they would be separate. Some errors are slow in dying but this amalgamation-assumption which falsifies hundreds of Scriptures is now only lingering upon its death bed."--Bosworth
The House of Israel and The House of Judah
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Yes, there is a lot of commentaries that go against the scriptures. In fact, most churches tell members they don't have to obey the commandments of God which is the exact opposite of what scriptures teach.
 
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Ligurian

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Yes, there is a lot of commentaries that go against the scriptures. In fact, most churches tell members they don't have to obey the commandments of God which is the exact opposite of what scriptures teach.


Try the link... it's right here at CF...do just a little bit of research... and THEN decide whether or not you're being hasty in defending your idea that "the House of Israel" means the Jews.

Unless that happens, talking at you is a lot like comparing apples to onions.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Israel is just a name God gave to His people. We can look directly to scripture as to what it means to be a Jew and we do not need to be born a Jew to be part of God’s promise to Israel because the scriptures tells us there is no Jew or Gentile if we are in Christ. Romans 2:28, Galatians 3:28-29 There is one body and Jesus is our High Priest.
 
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Ligurian

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Israel is just a name[...] there is no Jew or Gentile if we are in Christ. Romans 2:28, Galatians 3:28-29 [...]


Try the link... it's right here at CF...do just a little bit of research...
Unless that happens, talking at you is like comparing apples to onions.
 
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BABerean2

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Galatians 2:7-8 is fact: there are two different gospels for two different peoples.

Mar 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.


Joh 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.


Act 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
Act 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
Act 11:17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?


Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Gal 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.


Gal 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;
Gal 2:8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles


1Ti 1:4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.


Tit 3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.


You are ignoring Paul's warning against using "genealogies" in our faith.


.
 
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pescador

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Ephesians 2:8-9, "For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God; it is not from works, so that no one can boast."

End of story. Why is this even being discussed?
 
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