saved by grace or by works

[Presbyterian Continuist]

James WAS specific. As was Paul when he SPCIFICALLY stated that he was writing to the church in Rome, in Galatia, in Ephesus, and in Corinth ( the 2nd time). Do you believe yourself to be a resident or member of any of those churches? No, neither do I.

A good point.!

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

So . . . Because Paul described himself as the Apostle to the gentiles, you believe every letter he ever wrote is to you - even though the letters were SPECIFICALLY written TO a different recipient? To be clear, I believe his letters apply to us. But your basis for setting James aside is equally valid for Paul’s letters. Paul being the Apostle to the gentiles does not, in-and-of-itself mean that everything he ever wrote applies to all gentiles.

In actual fact, Paul preached the Gospel to both Jews and Gentiles. He did not make any distinction between them. His attitude was that there is no Jew or Gentile, male or female when it came to who needed the Gospel preached to them. Even though he said that he was going to turn to the Gentiles in one city, it didn't mean that he was going to ignore the Jews anywhere else he went. In fact, he continued to preach the Gospel in the synagogue as well as the market place wherever he went until he was imprisoned. When he was in his own rented home in Rome and had an open door for anyone who wanted to come and hear what Paul had to say about the Gospel, he never asked anyone whether they were Jew or Gentile so that he could turn away Jews and welcome Gentiles to hear the Gospel. Peter, who was recognised as an Apostle to the Jews, did not hesitate to go to Cornelius' household and preach the Gospel to them. He did not say, "Sorry, I can't come to you because I am the Apostle to the Jews, and you are not Jewish. You'll have to wait until Paul, who is the Apostle to the Gentiles, to get converted and then he will come and preach the Gospel to you."

 

[Ligurian]

In actual fact, Paul preached the Gospel to both Jews and Gentiles. He did not make any distinction between them. His attitude was that there is no Jew or Gentile, male or female when it came to who needed the Gospel preached to them. Even though he said that he was going to turn to the Gentiles in one city, it didn't mean that he was going to ignore the Jews anywhere else he went. In fact, he continued to preach the Gospel in the synagogue as well as the market place wherever he went until he was imprisoned. When he was in his own rented home in Rome and had an open door for anyone who wanted to come and hear what Paul had to say about the Gospel, he never asked anyone whether they were Jew or Gentile so that he could turn away Jews and welcome Gentiles to hear the Gospel. Peter, who was recognised as an Apostle to the Jews, did not hesitate to go to Cornelius' household and preach the Gospel to them. He did not say, "Sorry, I can't come to you because I am the Apostle to the Jews, and you are not Jewish. You'll have to wait until Paul, who is the Apostle to the Gentiles, to get converted and then he will come and preach the Gospel to you."

Know what happens when you only hear one side of the story? You only heard one side of the story.

The phrase "neither Jew nor Gentile" is because Paul is from the tribe of Benjamin, of THE House of Judah(aka Jews) of the still-divided kingdom of Solomon. And Barnabas the Levite is also from the House of Judah. Paul called himself a Jew because that's what he legally is.

Luke was a gentile who wrote down what was believed among his sect in Antioch, as taught by people like James the Lord's brother of Galatians 1:19 (called an apostle). And James had a brother named Simon/Simeon. No wonder Acts says what it says. Luke would never have known the difference, since he was a doctor in Antioch. Any number of the failed-disciples who turned back, or these loved-by-the-world brothers of John 7, could have been thought to be THE Disciples, with no one the wiser.


But for THE Disciple Peter to have deviated from the clear commandments of Matthew 10:5-7 and Matthew 28:18-20... well, that just isn't possible. For scores of reasons, including the fact that Ιησους was sent only unto the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel, and so that's where He sent His 12 Disciples, as well (Matthew 15:24, Matthew 10:5-7).

Wonders can be achieved with just a little bit of History. Ιησους even says the Jews didn't believe His words because they were not of His sheep (John 10:26)... which is literally true, because Jews are THE House of Judah (called Jewry in John 7).

This blind spot happens because people act like Paul is the only author of any gospel, period. And so they don't think the kingdom of Solomon is still divided. And they don't want to believe that Isaiah 52:4-7 fortells the Gospel of the Reign of God being given only to the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel.

Like it or don't, the 10-Lost-Tribes are still scattered among the nations, and are still being searched for by the preaching of the good news Reign of God which is what Ιησους still teaches through the words of His Disciples of Galilee, to those who will believe on Him through their word (John 17:20, John 10:16). I believe this is what the two witnesses will-be/are preaching to the Other Sheep.

 

[Guojing]

Peter, who was recognised as an Apostle to the Jews, did not hesitate to go to Cornelius' household and preach the Gospel to them.

Are you reading the same Acts 10 as me? God had to show him a vision three times about unclean animals, given that Jews regard all gentiles as unclean, and when Peter finally agreed to go to Cornelius, he had to tell him Acts 10:28-29.

He had to tell Cornelius it was against the Law for him to be there and plainly ask him "What am I even doing here"?

That does not tell me Peter did not hesitate to

1. go to Cornelius household and
2. preach the Gospel to them

 

[JAL]

You don't want to clear up your misunderstanding of what others believe in, that is pride.

I've misunderstood? Find out with it then. Proclaim to us your truth, for the whole world to hear.

Confirm to us all that my reading of you is totally mistaken. Confirm that, in your view, all the books of the NT are equally relevant to us today in terms of both doctrine and practice.

 

[Ligurian]

I can't even make sense of their claim that salvation by faith alone began with Paul's preaching, given John 3:16.

You seem to be misunderstanding John 3:16... which is tied to John 17:9.

Isaiah 24:1-18 [4] The earth mourns and the world is ruined, the lofty ones of the earth are mourning.[5] And she has sinned by reason of her inhabitants, because they have transgressed the Law and changed the Ordinances, even the Everlasting Covenant.[6] Therefore a curse shall consume the earth, because the inhabitants thereof have sinned: therefore the dwellers in the earth shall be poor, and few men shall be left.LXX

Deuteronomy 28:43-52 [43] The proselyte who is among you shall ascend over you upward and upward; but you shall go down lower and lower.[44] This one shall lend to you, but you to this one shall not lend; this one will be for the head, and you will be for the tail.[45] And shall come upon you all these curses, and they shall pursue you, and overtake you, until whenever they shall utterly destroy you, and until whenever they shall consume you. For you did not listen to the voice of the lord your God, to guard His Commandments, and His Ordinances, as many as I gave charge to you.[46] And [they] will be for signs to you, and miracles, and among your seed until the eon.[47] Because you did not serve [the] LORD your God with gladness, and with a good heart, because of the multitude of all these.[48] And you shalt serve your enemies whom the LORD shall send as a successor over you in hunger, and in thirst, and in nakedness, and in the want of all things. And he shall put a collar of iron upon your neck, until whenever he should utterly destroy you.[49] Shall bring upon you [the] LORD a nation far off from [the] end of the earth, as the impulse an eagle, a nation of which you will not hear its voice;[50] a nation impudent in [its] face, who will not admire [the] face of an old man, and for [the] young will not show mercy.[51] And it will devour the progeny of your cattle, and the produce of your land, so as not to leave behind for you grain, wine, olive oil, herds of your oxen, and the flocks of your sheep, until whenever it should destroy you,[52] and should obliterate you in all your cities, until whenever should be demolished your walls--the high and the fortified [ones] upon which you rely upon them in all your land--and it shall afflict you in all your cities, which gave to you [the] LORD your God.

These endtimes (found in Daniel) will happen, because of all this, to the whole world... into which the House of Israel has been scattered.

 

[JAL]

You seem to be misunderstanding John 3:16... which is tied to John 17:9.

Isaiah 24:1-18 [4] The earth mourns and the world is ruined, the lofty ones of the earth are mourning.[5] And she has sinned by reason of her inhabitants, because they have transgressed the Law and changed the Ordinances, even the Everlasting Covenant.[6] Therefore a curse shall consume the earth, because the inhabitants thereof have sinned: therefore the dwellers in the earth shall be poor, and few men shall be left.LXX

Deuteronomy 28:43-52 [43] The proselyte who is among you shall ascend over you upward and upward; but you shall go down lower and lower.[44] This one shall lend to you, but you to this one shall not lend; this one will be for the head, and you will be for the tail.[45] And shall come upon you all these curses, and they shall pursue you, and overtake you, until whenever they shall utterly destroy you, and until whenever they shall consume you. For you did not listen to the voice of the lord your God, to guard His Commandments, and His Ordinances, as many as I gave charge to you.[46] And [they] will be for signs to you, and miracles, and among your seed until the eon.[47] Because you did not serve [the] LORD your God with gladness, and with a good heart, because of the multitude of all these.[48] And you shalt serve your enemies whom the LORD shall send as a successor over you in hunger, and in thirst, and in nakedness, and in the want of all things. And he shall put a collar of iron upon your neck, until whenever he should utterly destroy you.[49] Shall bring upon you [the] LORD a nation far off from [the] end of the earth, as the impulse an eagle, a nation of which you will not hear its voice;[50] a nation impudent in [its] face, who will not admire [the] face of an old man, and for [the] young will not show mercy.[51] And it will devour the progeny of your cattle, and the produce of your land, so as not to leave behind for you grain, wine, olive oil, herds of your oxen, and the flocks of your sheep, until whenever it should destroy you,[52] and should obliterate you in all your cities, until whenever should be demolished your walls--the high and the fortified [ones] upon which you rely upon them in all your land--and it shall afflict you in all your cities, which gave to you [the] LORD your God.

Endtimes will happen, because of all this, to the whole world... into which the House of Israel has been scattered.

I'm not able to connect your dots. John 3:16, as far as I can see, shouts salvation by faith loud and clear.

 

[Guojing]

[

 

[Ligurian]

You seem to be misunderstanding John 3:16... which is tied to John 17:9.

Isaiah 24:1-18 [4] The earth mourns and the world is ruined, the lofty ones of the earth are mourning.[5] And she has sinned by reason of her inhabitants, because they have transgressed the Law and changed the Ordinances, even the Everlasting Covenant.[6] Therefore a curse shall consume the earth, because the inhabitants thereof have sinned: therefore the dwellers in the earth shall be poor, and few men shall be left.LXX

Deuteronomy 28:43-52 [43] The proselyte who is among you shall ascend over you upward and upward; but you shall go down lower and lower.[44] This one shall lend to you, but you to this one shall not lend; this one will be for the head, and you will be for the tail.[45] And shall come upon you all these curses, and they shall pursue you, and overtake you, until whenever they shall utterly destroy you, and until whenever they shall consume you. For you did not listen to the voice of the lord your God, to guard His Commandments, and His Ordinances, as many as I gave charge to you.[46] And [they] will be for signs to you, and miracles, and among your seed until the eon.[47] Because you did not serve [the] LORD your God with gladness, and with a good heart, because of the multitude of all these.[48] And you shalt serve your enemies whom the LORD shall send as a successor over you in hunger, and in thirst, and in nakedness, and in the want of all things. And he shall put a collar of iron upon your neck, until whenever he should utterly destroy you.[49] Shall bring upon you [the] LORD a nation far off from [the] end of the earth, as the impulse an eagle, a nation of which you will not hear its voice;[50] a nation impudent in [its] face, who will not admire [the] face of an old man, and for [the] young will not show mercy.[51] And it will devour the progeny of your cattle, and the produce of your land, so as not to leave behind for you grain, wine, olive oil, herds of your oxen, and the flocks of your sheep, until whenever it should destroy you,[52] and should obliterate you in all your cities, until whenever should be demolished your walls--the high and the fortified [ones] upon which you rely upon them in all your land--and it shall afflict you in all your cities, which gave to you [the] LORD your God.

These endtimes (found in Daniel) will happen, because of all this, to the whole world... into which the House of Israel has been scattered.

I'm not able to connect your dots. John 3:16, as far as I can see, shouts salvation by faith loud and clear.

Deuteronomy 28:43-52 is still valid, and it is prophecy found in Daniel. And Isaiah 24:1-18 is in the Revelation. These things will happen because those who are genetic Israel are only Israel because they were given the Everlasting Covenant and told to keep their part of this Covenant. If they cease being Israel by means of this Covenant, then the world will rock on its axis. The whole world will be punished because they didn't take seriously the warnings of Prophet Moses.

Definition

kosmos = orderly arrangement, i.e. decoration; by implication, the world (in a wide or narrow sense, including its inhabitants, literally or figuratively (morally)):--adorning, world.

Is John 3:16 the wide or the narrow definition of "world"?

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Because this "love" is conditional, in this Gospel. It requires a man to prove that he loves Ιησους by keeping His Commandments, THEN and only then, the Father will love him. This is how the Holy Spirit is given in this Gospel:

John 14:21-24 He that hath My Commandments and keepeth them, he it is that loveth Me; and he that loveth Me shall be loved of My Father and I will love him, and will manifest Myself to him.[22] Judas saith unto Him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that Thou wilt manifest Thyself unto us, and not unto the world?[23] Ιησους answered and said unto him, If a man love Me he will keep My words and My Father will love him, and We will come unto him and make Our abode with him.[24] He that loveth Me not keepeth not My sayings; and the word which ye hear is not Mine, but the Father's which sent Me.

Ιησους half-brothers are "of the world":

John 7:5-7 The world cannot hate you; but Me it hateth, because I testify of it that the works thereof are evil.

John 17:6-9 "I have manifested Thy name unto the men which Thou gavest Me out of the world. ...[9] I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which Thou hast given Me; for they are Thine.
John 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
John 17:14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
Not "of the world".

James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

The world (people) will be judged by this:

Deuteronomy 18:18-19 I will raise up to them a prophet of their brethren like thee, and I will put My words in His mouth and He shall speak to them as I shall Command Him.[19] And whatever man shall not hearken to whatsoever words that prophet shall speak in My name, I will take vengeance on him.LXX John 12:48-50
John 17:6-8 I have manifested Thy name unto the men which Thou gavest Me out of the world: Thine they were and Thou gavest them Me and they have kept Thy word.[7] Now they have known that all things whatsoever Thou hast given Me are of Thee.[8] For I have given unto them the words which Thou gavest Me, and they have received them and have known surely that I came out from Thee, and they have believed that Thou didst send Me.
(them: the 12 Disciples)

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Are you reading the same Acts 10 as me? God had to show him a vision three times about unclean animals, given that Jews regard all gentiles as unclean, and when Peter finally agreed to go to Cornelius, he had to tell him Acts 10:28-29.

He had to tell Cornelius it was against the Law for him to be there and plainly ask him "What am I even doing here"?

That does not tell me Peter did not hesitate to

1. go to Cornelius household and
2. preach the Gospel to them

He still went and preached the Gospel to them. He did not hesitate when the Lord showed him the vision and he knew that the Lord was sending him to Cornelius' household. Splitting hairs to try and support a point doesn't prove anything.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Know what happens when you only hear one side of the story? You only heard one side of the story.

The phrase "neither Jew nor Gentile" is because Paul is from the tribe of Benjamin, of THE House of Judah(aka Jews) of the still-divided kingdom of Solomon. And Barnabas the Levite is also from the House of Judah. Paul called himself a Jew because that's what he legally is.

Luke was a gentile who wrote down what was believed among his sect in Antioch, as taught by people like James the Lord's brother of Galatians 1:19 (called an apostle). And James had a brother named Simon/Simeon. No wonder Acts says what it says. Luke would never have known the difference, since he was a doctor in Antioch. Any number of the failed-disciples who turned back, or these loved-by-the-world brothers of John 7, could have been thought to be THE Disciples, with no one the wiser.


But for THE Disciple Peter to have deviated from the clear commandments of Matthew 10:5-7 and Matthew 28:18-20... well, that just isn't possible. For scores of reasons, including the fact that Ιησους was sent only unto the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel, and so that's where He sent His 12 Disciples, as well (Matthew 15:24, Matthew 10:5-7).

Wonders can be achieved with just a little bit of History. Ιησους even says the Jews didn't believe His words because they were not of His sheep (John 10:26)... which is literally true, because Jews are THE House of Judah (called Jewry in John 7).

This blind spot happens because people act like Paul is the only author of any gospel, period. And so they don't think the kingdom of Solomon is still divided. And they don't want to believe that Isaiah 52:4-7 fortells the Gospel of the Reign of God being given only to the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel.

Like it or don't, the 10-Lost-Tribes are still scattered among the nations, and are still being searched for by the preaching of the good news Reign of God which is what Ιησους still teaches through the words of His Disciples of Galilee, to those who will believe on Him through their word (John 17:20, John 10:16). I believe this is what the two witnesses will-be/are preaching to the Other Sheep.

All you have done here is to show that your believe in a gospel of works and not supporting salvation by grace through faith in Christ alone apart from the Law. A religion based on observance to the Law is a Christless religion which seeks salvation in something else other than faith in Christ's shed blood on the Cross. It actually says that Christ's shed blood is not sufficient to gain salvation, and therefore is a denial of the shed blood. But without the shed blood of Christ there is no remission of sin. Therefore if your faith is in your observance to the Law as an addition to faith in Christ, you are still in your sins because without faith in Christ's shed blood alone, your sins have not been remitted. You need to take this seriously because your faith in observance to the Law might come back and bite you in the posterior one day.

 

[Guojing]

He still went and preached the Gospel to them. He did not hesitate when the Lord showed him the vision and he knew that the Lord was sending him to Cornelius' household. Splitting hairs to try and support a point doesn't prove anything.

I am not splitting hair, I am asking you to actually read the scripture and understand it for yourself.

You claim these 2 points

1. He did not hesitate when the Lord showed him the vision
   
2. he knew that the Lord was sending him to Cornelius' household

When God had to show Peter the vision THREE TIMES, you cannot possibly interpret that as implying, "He did not hesitate when the Lord showed him the vision"?

Furthermore, would he have said what he said in Acts 10:28-29

1. "It is against the Law for me to be seen with you here"
2. I ask therefore for what intent ye have sent for me?",

If he, as you claimed, "knew that the Lord was sending him to Cornelius' household."?

Just use common sense and read the actual scripture for yourself. You will realize that your belief that Peter "did not hesitate to go to Cornelius' household and preach the Gospel to them", does not gel with what actually went down in Acts 10.

 

[Ligurian]

Know what happens when you only hear one side of the story? You only heard one side of the story.

The phrase "neither Jew nor Gentile" is because Paul is from the tribe of Benjamin, of THE House of Judah(aka Jews) of the still-divided kingdom of Solomon. And Barnabas the Levite is also from the House of Judah. Paul called himself a Jew because that's what he legally is.

Luke was a gentile who wrote down what was believed among his sect in Antioch, as taught by people like James the Lord's brother of Galatians 1:19 (called an apostle). And James had a brother named Simon/Simeon. No wonder Acts says what it says. Luke would never have known the difference, since he was a doctor in Antioch. Any number of the failed-disciples who turned back, or these loved-by-the-world brothers of John 7, could have been thought to be THE Disciples, with no one the wiser.


But for THE Disciple Peter to have deviated from the clear commandments of Matthew 10:5-7 and Matthew 28:18-20... well, that just isn't possible. For scores of reasons, including the fact that Ιησους was sent only unto the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel, and so that's where He sent His 12 Disciples, as well (Matthew 15:24, Matthew 10:5-7).

Wonders can be achieved with just a little bit of History. Ιησους even says the Jews didn't believe His words because they were not of His sheep (John 10:26)... which is literally true, because Jews are THE House of Judah (called Jewry in John 7).

This blind spot happens because people act like Paul is the only author of any gospel, period. And so they don't think the kingdom of Solomon is still divided. And they don't want to believe that Isaiah 52:4-7 fortells the Gospel of the Reign of God being given only to the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel.

Like it or don't, the 10-Lost-Tribes are still scattered among the nations, and are still being searched for by the preaching of the good news Reign of God which is what Ιησους still teaches through the words of His Disciples of Galilee, to those who will believe on Him through their word (John 17:20, John 10:16). I believe this is what the two witnesses will-be/are preaching to the Other Sheep.

not supporting salvation by grace through faith in Christ alone apart from the Law. A religion based on observance to the Law is a Christless religion which seeks salvation in something else other than faith in Christ's shed blood on the Cross. It actually says that Christ's shed blood is not sufficient to gain salvation, and therefore is a denial of the shed blood. But without the shed blood of Christ there is no remission of sin. Therefore if your faith is in your observance to the Law as an addition to faith in Christ, you are still in your sins because without faith in Christ's shed blood alone

You said: "A religion based on observance to the Law is a Christless religion."
Yours is Pauline Theology... of the gentiles and Jews(the house of Judah+Benjamin+Levi).
But Paul's not the boss of me, so your use of his-gospel-dictionary doesn't work on me.
It only works on those who actually follow Paul's gentiles+Jews gospel.

What happens if you quote what Paul never taught, given Galatians 1:8?
_______________________
The First Gospel:
Deuteronomy 18:18-19, Isaiah 52:4-7, Matthew 4:23, Matthew 5:17-20, Matthew 10:5-7, Matthew 15:24, Matthew 24:14, John 12:44-50, John 17:6-8, Revelation 3:8-10, etc.

I follow this Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven to the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel.

 

[JAL]

Deuteronomy 28:43-52 is still valid, and it is prophecy found in Daniel. And Isaiah 24:1-18 is in the Revelation. These things will happen because those who are genetic Israel are only Israel because they were given the Everlasting Covenant and told to keep their part of this Covenant.

Don't read too much into "everlasting" because God isn't a legalistic tyrant. Meaning, He goes by the spirit of the law, not the letter. The spirit of the law is love - the essence of His covenants - hence many of His covenants can be described as everlasting. Any "termination" of these covenants, then, is largely nominal, as the essence is love which remains forever. Let's take an example. Suppose two nations form an everlasting peace treaty and land allocation - neither side is to cross the boundary. One day a third nation comes to war against one of those two nations. In "violation" of the treaty, the other nation crosses the boundary to RESCUE them. Is this really a violation? Or perhaps a termination? Neither, if one is going by the spirit of the law. When circumstances change dramatically, the letter no longer applies, necessarily.

Is John 3:16 the wide or the narrow definition of "world"?

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Because this "love" is conditional, in this Gospel. It requires a man to prove that he loves Ιησους by keeping His Commandments, THEN and only then, the Father will love him. This is how the Holy Spirit is given in this Gospel:

You're reaching here. The only condition spelled out in John 3:16 is belief. It's exegetically torturous to read a works-based salvation into John 3:16.

 

[Ligurian]

You seem to be misunderstanding John 3:16... which is tied to John 17:9.

Isaiah 24:1-18 [4] The earth mourns and the world is ruined, the lofty ones of the earth are mourning.[5] And she has sinned by reason of her inhabitants, because they have transgressed the Law and changed the Ordinances, even the Everlasting Covenant.[6] Therefore a curse shall consume the earth, because the inhabitants thereof have sinned: therefore the dwellers in the earth shall be poor, and few men shall be left.LXX

Deuteronomy 28:43-52 [43] The proselyte who is among you shall ascend over you upward and upward; but you shall go down lower and lower.[44] This one shall lend to you, but you to this one shall not lend; this one will be for the head, and you will be for the tail.[45] And shall come upon you all these curses, and they shall pursue you, and overtake you, until whenever they shall utterly destroy you, and until whenever they shall consume you. For you did not listen to the voice of the lord your God, to guard His Commandments, and His Ordinances, as many as I gave charge to you.[46] And [they] will be for signs to you, and miracles, and among your seed until the eon.[47] Because you did not serve [the] LORD your God with gladness, and with a good heart, because of the multitude of all these.[48] And you shalt serve your enemies whom the LORD shall send as a successor over you in hunger, and in thirst, and in nakedness, and in the want of all things. And he shall put a collar of iron upon your neck, until whenever he should utterly destroy you.[49] Shall bring upon you [the] LORD a nation far off from [the] end of the earth, as the impulse an eagle, a nation of which you will not hear its voice;[50] a nation impudent in [its] face, who will not admire [the] face of an old man, and for [the] young will not show mercy.[51] And it will devour the progeny of your cattle, and the produce of your land, so as not to leave behind for you grain, wine, olive oil, herds of your oxen, and the flocks of your sheep, until whenever it should destroy you,[52] and should obliterate you in all your cities, until whenever should be demolished your walls--the high and the fortified [ones] upon which you rely upon them in all your land--and it shall afflict you in all your cities, which gave to you [the] LORD your God.

These endtimes (found in Daniel) will happen, because of all this, to the whole world... into which the House of Israel has been scattered.

Don't read too much into "everlasting" because God isn't a legalistic tyrant. Meaning, He goes by the spirit of the law, not the letter. The spirit of the law is love - the essence of His covenants - hence many of His covenants can be described as everlasting. Any "termination" of these covenants, then, is largely nominal, as the essence is love which remains forever. Let's take an example. Suppose two nations form an everlasting peace treaty and land allocation - neither side is to cross the boundary. One day a third nation comes to war against one of those two nations. In "violation" of the treaty, the other nation crosses the boundary to RESCUE them. Is this really a violation? Or perhaps a termination? Neither, if one is going by the spirit of the law. When circumstances change dramatically, the letter no longer applies, necessarily.

You're reaching here. The only condition spelled out in John 3:16 is belief. It's exegetically torturous to read a works-based salvation into John 3:16.

God is totally legalistic and can be as "tyrannical" as He wants with the Creation He made for Himself.

What God is NOT... is someone who changes His mind.

"Walk before Me and be thou perfect" is what He said to Abraham, and it's what He still says today in Matthew's Sermon on the Mount... where even thinking about adultery carries a death penalty.

And not being circumcised will still keep you out of the Promised Land, because Abraham's part of the Everlasting Covenant never changes... because God never changes.

People may WANT to say it's like man-made treaties... but it's not, because man-made treaties are written in sand... because man changes.

 

[msortwell]

God is totally legalistic and can be as "tyrannical" as He wants with the Creation He made for Himself.

What God is NOT... is someone who changes His mind.

"Walk before Me and be thou perfect" is what He said to Abraham, and it's what He still says today in Matthew's Sermon on the Mount... where even thinking about adultery carries a death penalty.

And not being circumcised will still keep you out of the Promised Land, because Abraham's part of the Everlasting Covenant never changes... because God never changes.

People may WANT to say it's like man-made treaties... but it's not, because man-made treaties are written in sand... because man changes.

The believing . . . even the gentiles ARE circumcised.

Philippians 3:2-4
2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the mutilation! 3 For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh . . . KJV

Galatians 5:11-12
12 I could wish that those who trouble you would even cut themselves off! NKJV

 

[JAL]

God is totally legalistic and can be as "tyrannical" as He wants with the Creation He made for Himself.

Incorrect. He cannot be a tyrannical monster because He is love (kindness) as part of His irreversible holiness. His holiness also includes justice/fairness and thus excludes legalism.

In one sense you're correct. He IS indeed unchanging - in His love, kindness, justice, fairness, integrity.

 

[Ligurian]

God is totally legalistic and can be as "tyrannical" as He wants with the Creation He made for Himself.

What God is NOT... is someone who changes His mind.

"Walk before Me and be thou perfect" is what He said to Abraham, and it's what He still says today in Matthew's Sermon on the Mount... where even thinking about adultery carries a death penalty.

And not being circumcised will still keep you out of the Promised Land, because Abraham's part of the Everlasting Covenant never changes... because God never changes.

People may WANT to say it's like man-made treaties... but it's not, because man-made treaties are written in sand... because man changes.

The believing . . . even the gentiles ARE circumcised.

Philippians 3:2-4
2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the mutilation! 3 For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh . . . KJV

Galatians 5:11-12
12 I could wish that those who trouble you would even cut themselves off! NKJV

You're quoting Paul's gospel to the gentiles and Jews(3-tribed House of Judah).
That stuff only works on your crowd.

Paul's not the boss of me.



I follow the Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven for the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel(10-lost-tribes).

Genesis 17:9-14 And God said to Abraam, Thou also shalt fully keep My Covenant, thou and thy seed after thee for their generations.[10] And this [is] the Covenant which thou shalt fully keep between Me and you and between thy seed after thee for their generations; every male of you shall be circumcised.[11] And ye shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskin, and it shall be for a sign of a Covenant between M and you.[12] And the child of eight days [old] shall be circumcised by you, every male throughout your generations, and [the servant] born in the house and he that is bought with money of every son of a stranger, who is not of thy seed.[13] He that is born in thy house and he that is bought with money shall be surely circumcised, and My Covenant shall be on your flesh for an Everlasting Covenant.[14] And the uncircumcised male, who shall not be circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin on the eighth day, that soul shall be utterly destroyed from its family, for he has broken My Covenant.LXX

 

[Ligurian]

God is totally legalistic and can be as "tyrannical" as He wants with the Creation He made for Himself.

What God is NOT... is someone who changes His mind.

"Walk before Me and be thou perfect" is what He said to Abraham, and it's what He still says today in Matthew's Sermon on the Mount... where even thinking about adultery carries a death penalty.

And not being circumcised will still keep you out of the Promised Land, because Abraham's part of the Everlasting Covenant never changes... because God never changes.

People may WANT to say it's like man-made treaties... but it's not, because man-made treaties are written in sand... because man changes.

Incorrect. He cannot be a tyrannical monster because He is love (kindness) as part of His irreversible holiness. His holiness also includes justice/fairness and thus excludes legalism.

In one sense you're correct. He IS indeed unchanging - in His love, kindness, justice, fairness, integrity.

Apart from the Law, mankind's making it up as they go, using a man-made dictionary.

Making justice into "fairness", by excluding legalism... pie-in-the-sky nonsense.
AKA, "every man did what was right in his own mind"... next step, Psalms 2.

According to God, you can neither know nor do "justice" without keeping the Law.

Genesis 18:18-19 But Abraam shall become a great and populous nation and in him shall all the nations of the earth be blest.[19] For I know that he will order his sons and his house after him, and they will keep the ways of the Lord to do justice and judgment, that the Lord may bring upon Abraam all things whatsoever He has spoken to him.

Are Abraham's children lawbreakers? Nope.
But lawbreakers/deniers kill the prophets... and they'll be doing that again.

Malachi 3:6 For I am the Lord your God, and I am not (ἠλλοίωμαι) changed,LXX

James 1:17 the Father of lights, with whom is no (παραλλαγή) variableness, neither shadow of turning. (James 1:1)
parallage = transmutation (of phase or orbit), fickleness: variableness.

 

[JAL]

According to God, you can neither know nor do "justice" without keeping the Law.

Yet in Romans 4 we read:

2If Abraham was indeed justified by works, he had something to boast about, but not before God. 3For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”..To the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. 6And David speaks likewise of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:7“Blessed are they whose lawless acts are forgiven, whose sins are covered.8Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will never count against him.”9... We have been saying that Abraham’s faith was credited to him as righteousness. 10In what context was it credited? Was it after his circumcision, or before? It was not after, but before.c11...through the righteousness that comes by faith. 14For if those who live by the law are heirs, faith is useless and the promise is worthless, 15because the law brings wrath....Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may rest on grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham’s offspring—not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all.

Similarly in Galatians 3 we read:


7Understand, then, that those who have faith are sons of Abraham. 8The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith...9So those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.10All who rely on works of the law are under a curse. For it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”c 11Now it is clear that no one is justified before God by the law, because, “The righteous will live by faith.”d 12The law, however, is not based on faith; on the contrary, “The man who does these things will live by them.”