Saved by grace, but whom are Jesus' warnings directed to? (And the other warnings)

[bozzy]

The thing about getting impressions and scriptures that come to mind is that when a positive one comes you can be uplifted and encouraged; then a negative impression or scripture came come to mind and you are back down in discouragement and confusion. Getting scriptures that way is unreliable and only makes the mind unstable, going from a high to a low, back to a high, and then again to a low, depending on what comes to mind.

But studying through the Bible brings more reliable guidance and a greater stability to your mind and heart in Christ. Then you are reading verses in their proper context and seeing the thread of teaching through the Bible about the ways of God and how they affect you. One well-known writer warned that nine out of ten impressions can come from the world, flesh, or the devil, so one should not rely on them, but check them with the general teaching of scripture. The late Lester Sumrall said that if we want to know the will of God, read the Bible; if we want to do the will of God, do the Bible.

Along with the Bible, so as not to re-invent the wheel, I have a large library of good Christian literature on a range of subjects. The men and women who wrote these books have sought God and then wrote comprehensively on their chosen topic. I have books ranging from the 17th Century through to the present. I also have a full set of Charles Spurgeon's Expository Encylopedia, and these have been a strength to me from time to time.

At one stage I wanted to know about divine healing and spiritual warfare, so I went to my favourite Christian second hand bookshop and bought up all the books I could on those topics. I read all the principal authors, from the late 19th Century to the present time, and it was like going to Bible College, and I learned heaps of the different ideas and methods of divine healing and deliverance. Why re-invent the wheel by trying to plough through the Bible and maybe get the wrong interpretation, when I can consult through their literature the proven ministries in these fields?

I am not saying that this literature replaces the Bible, but it supplements and complements the scripture through these authors' faithful study of it. Of all these books, I found only one author who was a bit off the wall in her ideas, but all the rest were very instructive in my quest for what was right and appropriate for me in these fields.

These are what has made me stable in my faith, and so I recommend this approach to you.

Thank you.

 

[bozzy]

This isn't right though. Hebrews 10:29 says so in very strong language.

If you look at the context of that passage in Ephesians, St. Paul is describing how under the Old Covenant (BCE), fellowship with God was only promised to those who lived according to the Jewish law (Ephesians 2:12, Deuteronomy 32:45-47, Deuteronomy 30:20), and how this has created enmity between the Jews and Gentiles because of the separation that The Law brought between them (Ephesians 2:14).

What St. Paul is labouring to explain (to a culture who was still of that mindset and grappling to understand how Gentiles now are children of the promise alongside Jews), is stated in Ephesians 2:14-16: that ever since the cross, there is not a single Jew who can claim that the promise applies to them while rejecting Jesus Christ. Because "All have sinned and have fallen short of the glory of God". This is what the cross has achieved: judgement (John 12:31, Deuteronomy 31:16-18, 20, Luke 13:34-35, Matthew 21:42-44).

The bottom line in the gospel is this: that He came to His own, but His own did not receive Him. Yet, to all who did receive Him (whether Jew or Gentile), He gave power to be called children of God.

So, it is proper to keep this context in mind, that St. Paul is not writing to the Ephesians to say that we are saved without obligation. Rather, He is writing to say that we are saved by accepting the Word of Truth: that Jesus offered up His life on our behalf, to spare the world from the impending calamity of it's obstinence (Malachi 4:5-6, Amos 5:18-24, - and concerning justice in Amos 5:24, see Psalms 94:20-24 & Matthew 23:31-36). This is a gracious gift to us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Salvation is not reckoned to us because we have worked and earned it, as a worker earns his wages, because it is impossible for a man who is born in corruption, to keep the entire law.

Keep in mind, that if the rulers of this world had known the secrets of God's mystery, they would not have crucified The Lord of Glory (1 Corinthians 2:8 - Consider also John 19:10-11 and Isaiah 53:7 as they apply).

This is right

What happens, is that children are corrupted as they grow in the sinful world, and before they know it, they become enslaved by their sinful passions. Then when (and if) they have the opportunity to receive conviction through the knowledge of The Gospel, they have an opportunity to repent and to thereby have New Life restored by way of baptism. Then, when a person coming under baptismal covenant begins their new life, they have no record of sin. They also have a renewed relationship with God, and because of this, they must walk out the remainder of their days in obedience and repentance, to ensure that they do not slip into The Second Death, where the fire is never quenched and their worm never dies (eg Hebrews 6:4-8, Matthew 24:48-51).

Amen.

Dear Lord God, here we have brother bozzy on a diligent and sincere search of your truth. Lord God, we recognise that he has a natural conviction of the truth as Your Holy Spirit convicts, and yet he is confused by the garbage doctrines that have originated by those who have misused your name over all the years. Lord God, we know garbage doctrines are unavoidable for a person in the world today, so we thank you for having been with us to insist the truth to us against the lure of lies, and for your patience as we have struggled and often chosen to believe the lie instead of what Your Holy Spirit is saying. Lord God, it is only because of your patience and supreme wisdom that we are able to take this position against the lies in the world, and it is only because you are true to your words of Matthew 28:20, that you have been with us until even the end of the age, this is why we can speak so openly together about the convictions you bring on our hearts. So we thank and acknowledge too, all the saints that have come before us, who have faithfully spoken the words of truth that You have laid upon their hearts, and because we recognise that it is only through the service of those who are loyal to you that Your truth is represented into the world through our words and actions - Lord, for this reason we thank you for the honour of having been called by your name to speak on your behalf, and we ask that as you continue to shape us as a potter shapes the clay, and as a vine dresser prunes the vine for fruit, that even during stages of severe reconstruction for your purposes, we will not lose sight of your love for us and the confidence we ought to have, that you have chosen us to be your instruments in the world. Please, Father, if it is possible that your plan can accommodate this request, grant both of us ever-increasing strength, courage, wisdom, grace and love, so that we might never be tempted to look upon ourselves as being failures, but as being sanctified, justified, and continually upheld by your hand as we grow to resemble less and less of the ways of the world, and more and more the likeness of your Only-Begotten son, Our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Amen.

I appreciate your reply. Thank you. May the Lord bless you

 

[fhansen]

Hi everyone! Shalom to you.

So I've been studying the bible a lot lately. I've been praying so much also, that God really would show me the whole truth (and I'm open in my heart for whatever God wants to show me, whether I feel it's easy or "legalistic" in my eyes).

I know verses like Ephesians 2:8-9 which says: "for by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, that no one would boast."

For many christians this settles the case, they think "OK. We're saved by grace, then of course it makes no sense that we can lose our salvation by our works, or else, how can be be saved by grace?" And it seems right to me as well. But what if something else is meant by it? I'm not trying to remove your assurance of salvation, just checking if we got it right. What if he's saying that everyone can be saved by believing in Jesus, but if they don't work out their salvation by walking in forgiveness towards others, by not living in sin and etc, they will spiritually die?

How can I really know that Jesus' warnings about not forgiving (as in Matthew 18) is directed towards christians for example? Or His warning about servants that started drinking and beating the other servants of Christ (Matthew 24)? Or Paul in Galatians 5, 1 Corinthians 6 and Ephesians 5 warning that those who do "this, this, this" will not inherit God's kingdom.

I'm confused, and have read SO MUCH. Not only the bible either. Calvinists, arminians, pentecostal beliefs, baptist beliefs, OSAS and so much more.

May the Lord reveal His truth to us! And may our hearts receive that truth.

It's fairly simple; grace is intended to produce something, to produce a response of faith in us first of all. But that isn't guaranteed; we can resist and reject Gods overtures; He does not force us or override our wills, not with Adam, and not with us now.

By the same token we can reject faith after "tasting of the heavenly gift", we can live faithlessly, we can turn back away from God at any step along the way. Salvation is not universal, and man is drawn, not forced, to act.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Hi everyone! Shalom to you.

So I've been studying the bible a lot lately. I've been praying so much also, that God really would show me the whole truth (and I'm open in my heart for whatever God wants to show me, whether I feel it's easy or "legalistic" in my eyes).

I know verses like Ephesians 2:8-9 which says: "for by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, that no one would boast."

For many christians this settles the case, they think "OK. We're saved by grace, then of course it makes no sense that we can lose our salvation by our works, or else, how can be be saved by grace?" And it seems right to me as well. But what if something else is meant by it? I'm not trying to remove your assurance of salvation, just checking if we got it right. What if he's saying that everyone can be saved by believing in Jesus, but if they don't work out their salvation by walking in forgiveness towards others, by not living in sin and etc, they will spiritually die?

How could Eph 2:8-9 be saying that? The verses are quite plainly stated. It seems you've conflated several verses into your question. The "working out their salvation" comes from Phil 2:12 refers to the "present tense" aspect of salvation, or our sanctification process. Or, spiritual growth.

If one must work out their salvation by forgiving others and not living in sin, that makes our salvation dependent upon what we do, when, in fact, our salvation is based upon what our Savior already did for us. Which is grace. If your question were true, then salvation could not be by grace at all. Rather, by works instead of grace.

How can I really know that Jesus' warnings about not forgiving (as in Matthew 18) is directed towards christians for example?

It is directed towards believers. As a believer, we are forgiven of our ongoing sins by confession, per 1 John 1:9. Regarding that chapter, count the number of times John used the word "fellowship" and that is what confession is for; ongoing fellowship.

So, Matt 18 is about being forgiven as a means of fellowship. iow, how can any believer be in fellowship with the Lord if they are not being forgiving towards others?

Or His warning about servants that started drinking and beating the other servants of Christ (Matthew 24)? Or Paul in Galatians 5, 1 Corinthians 6 and Ephesians 5 warning that those who do "this, this, this" will not inherit God's kingdom.

These 3 passages are parallel. In 1 Cor 6 and Gal 5, the phrase is "will not inherit the kingdom", but in Eph 5, the phrase is "have no inheritance in the kingdom".

It would be a mistake to think that "not inheriting the kingdom" means "not entering the kingdom". There is no equality between "inherit" and "enter". One can enter the kingdom but have no inheritance in the kingdom.