Saved by grace, but whom are Jesus' warnings directed to? (And the other warnings)

[bozzy]

I'm working through this very thing with my people. I have a weekly Faith Builder magazine that I email to those on my list. If you would like to receive that magazine, the present issue looks at God's promise of peace to His people. Subsequent issues will deal with what to do when that peace is interrupted; how to remain in faith with Christ in the face of sin; what God's promises are those who feel they are weak in doing things for God; how to maintain your faith in Christ when you don't have assurance; and how to maintain faith and not get discouraged in the face of testing. If you feel that these topics will help you, send me a PM with your email address and I will add you to my distribution group.

There are a lot of discouraged and wounded Christians out there - in every church. I believe that the Lord is wanting me to minister to them, and so any other discouraged Christian can also send me a PM so I can include them as well.

Thank you very much for your kindness Oscarr. I am trying to send you a pm with my email but, can't find where I do this.

 

[bozzy]

I'm working through this very thing with my people. I have a weekly Faith Builder magazine that I email to those on my list. If you would like to receive that magazine, the present issue looks at God's promise of peace to His people. Subsequent issues will deal with what to do when that peace is interrupted; how to remain in faith with Christ in the face of sin; what God's promises are those who feel they are weak in doing things for God; how to maintain your faith in Christ when you don't have assurance; and how to maintain faith and not get discouraged in the face of testing. If you feel that these topics will help you, send me a PM with your email address and I will add you to my distribution group.

There are a lot of discouraged and wounded Christians out there - in every church. I believe that the Lord is wanting me to minister to them, and so any other discouraged Christian can also send me a PM so I can include them as well.

Oh it seems I must do more post + have profile likes or whatever it was I just read, to be able to send PM's or whatever. But, maybe you can try and send me a "." on pm, and then I can reply with my email. Thanks!

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Oh it seems I must do more post + have profile likes or whatever it was I just read, to be able to send PM's or whatever. But, maybe you can try and send me a "." on pm, and then I can reply with my email. Thanks!

If you click on my name, a menu will come up where it says "start a new conversation". This is the new way of sending a PM now.

 

[stuart lawrence]

To ask another way: Why doesn't the bible tell us straight forward that the warnings are to false believers and unbelievers if they are? Or does it explain that?

For the sake of wanting to address your question, nothing more i will tell you something of myself.
At the age of twenty God had pulled me out if a terrible pit, he rescued me from a dire, and impossible situation and in one year totally transformed my life.
Without going into detail, it was made plain to me , God wanted something specific from my life. How did I respond to all God had done for me? I was utterly selfish. I went out with someone I should never have gone out with. God specifically showed me I should not have gone out with this person, but I went out with them anyway.
For the next Severn years, I lived in sin, and often got drunk and gambled.
When the relationship was finally over I returned to a Christian community I had previously lived in. The man who ran it told me:
God has given me an incredible love for you

So my sin had not removed me from Gods love.
I could give you many examples of the fact God still lived me and heard and still answered my prayers, but it would take too long.
I have never done what God always wanted me to do. And yet, he still loves me.
So have I got away without any repercussions in my life by not doing what God asked of me. Could I happily sin and get away with it?
No I couldn't. I have lived an unfulfilled life. God gave me a wife and family I did not deserve after my selfishness. But I was lonely even in the marriage, unfulfilled, life at times was a mere existence as I had not done what God wanted me to do. And often, my conscience seered me because of this. And I was never as happy since, as I had been that year of my life when God totally had first place in it.
When you don't do what God wants you to do you bring misery upon yourself, that, in my experience is your punishment, it is self inflicted wounds

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

For the sake of wanting to address your question, nothing more i will tell you something of myself.
At the age of twenty God had pulled me out if a terrible pit, he rescued me from a dire, and impossible situation and in one year totally transformed my life.
Without going into detail, it was made plain to , God wanted something specific from my life. How did I respond to all God has done for me? I was utterly selfish. I went out with someone I should never have gone out with. God specifically showed me I should not have gone out with this person, but I went out with them anyway.
For the next Severn years, I lived in sin, and often got drunk and gambled.
When the relationship was finally over I returned to a Christian community I had previously lived in. The man who ran it told me:
God has given me an incredible love for you

So my sin had not removed me from Gods live.
I could give you many examples if the fact God still lived me and heard and still answers my prayers, but it would take too long.
I have never done what God always wanted me to do. And yet, he still lives me.
So have I got away without any repercussions in my life by not doing what God asked of me. Could I have happily sin and get away with it?
No I couldn't. I have lived an unfulfilled life. God gave me a wife and family I did not deserve after my selfishness. But I was lonely even in the marriage, unfulfilled, life at times was a mere existence as I have as not done what God wanted me to do. And often, my conscience seered me because of this. And I was never as happy since, as I had been that year of my life when God totally had first place in it.
When you don't do what God wants you to do your g misery in yourself, that, in my experience it s your punishment, it is self inflicted

This goes right along with the series that I am preparing for the members of my church. Once God has given us grace, it can never be repealed. Yet because of our failures and testings, we can lose our assurance, peace, comfort and joy. But we will never be "un-born again". True, our sins hide God's face from us, and we feel very alone without the fellowship of God. But those who have received true grace will not allow discouragement to cause them to give up and run away from God, but they will run to Christ and hold on to Him with all their hearts and with a "trusting" faith, even though they might not have faith based on God's fellowship with them. When we are out of fellowship with God, true believers will long for it as in a dry and thirsty land. They will cry out to Him. In the Song of Solomon the woman says, "I looked for my beloved and could not find him."

There are times when clouds obscure the sun and the days are grey and overcast. But this does not mean that the sun has stopped shining. It is just that we can't see it. I went on a plane trip recently. At the airport the sky was overcast, but when we got to 35,000 feet, we had broken through the clouds and flew in brilliant sunshine. This can be our experience in God. His face can be hidden from us, and clouds may obscure our assurance, but our salvation and our standing with God is still there. It is just that we can't see it. Then, as in the day when the clouds roll away and the sun comes out, so the day comes when the clouds of doubt and fear roll away and we see the face of God shining on us once again.

So there is no real reason to be discouraged and cast down if we can't see the face of God or sense His presence with us. We maintain our "trusting" faith in Christ and get on with doing the will of God in our lives until the sense of fellowship returns. So we keep reading the Bible, praying, fellowshiping with other believers, going to church, being involved in worship, doing good for our neighbours - all through trusting faith, because we know that the grace of God is not diminished for us. It is still there.

Some go doubting all their lives, and even at the point of death, but they are in heaven today. Some others have a false confidence and think they have "arrived", even though they don't walk with Christ, or pray, or go to church, or do kind things to their neighbours. They are in hell today. A person can have doubts and fears yet have true grace. Others can be totally confident in their religious yet have no grace at all. This shows that whether we are confident and comforted, or are doubting and fearing, if we are converted to Christ and have grace, our salvation is secure.

 

[PropheticTimes]

Hi Stuart Lawrence! Thanks for your reply. I definitely want to be in God's will in every way, and after all that Jesus has done for me on the cross, I DO want to serve Him, love Him and worship Him- not just with my song, but with my life. And, yes, I believe in Jesus, that He is the Son of God who died on the cross for my sins and was raised to life again. Jesus is my Saviour and I love Him.

However, sometimes I've struggled with truly knowing if I'm on the way to heaven or not, not because of my faith, but because sometimes I see my shortcomings, and feel I don't live as good as I should. In fact, there are times when I think my lifestyle is rather hypocritical! Not because I am a hypocrite, no I'm not, but I've experienced God's love and goodness and still there have been times when I have sinned, knowing it was wrong. But oh, have I been praying for God to set me free from all my junk!

The more we come to understand just what Jesus did for us on Calvary, the more apparent our sin becomes to us. This drives us to the throne of grace with great gratitude for our salvation.

That you have become more aware of your sin does not make your salvation questonable, it means that the Holy Spirit is working deeply within you. Praise God for this and allow Him to work in you, changing you piece by piece to become more like Christ.

God's peace be with you.

 

[Butch5]

Hi everyone! Shalom to you.

So I've been studying the bible a lot lately. I've been praying so much also, that God really would show me the whole truth (and I'm open in my heart for whatever God wants to show me, whether I feel it's easy or "legalistic" in my eyes).

I know verses like Ephesians 2:8-9 which says: "for by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, that no one would boast."

For many christians this settles the case, they think "OK. We're saved by grace, then of course it makes no sense that we can lose our salvation by our works, or else, how can be be saved by grace?" And it seems right to me as well. But what if something else is meant by it? I'm not trying to remove your assurance of salvation, just checking if we got it right. What if he's saying that everyone can be saved by believing in Jesus, but if they don't work out their salvation by walking in forgiveness towards others, by not living in sin and etc, they will spiritually die?

How can I really know that Jesus' warnings about not forgiving (as in Matthew 18) is directed towards christians for example? Or His warning about servants that started drinking and beating the other servants of Christ (Matthew 24)? Or Paul in Galatians 5, 1 Corinthians 6 and Ephesians 5 warning that those who do "this, this, this" will not inherit God's kingdom.

I'm confused, and have read SO MUCH. Not only the bible either. Calvinists, arminians, pentecostal beliefs, baptist beliefs, OSAS and so much more.

May the Lord reveal His truth to us! And may our hearts receive that truth.

Many Christians do have Ephesians 2:8 wrong. In that passage, as in most, Paul is talking about the works of the Mosaic Law. Paul isn't saying that a persons works have nothing to do with salvation. He's saying that the Ephesians weren't saved by keeping the Law of Moses. The works a person does do indeed play a role in their salvation. He makes this clear to the Christians in his letter to the Romans.

5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; 6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds: 7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: 8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, 9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;1 (Rom. 2:1 KJV)

 

[Israel Douglas]

Hi everyone! Shalom to you.

So I've been studying the bible a lot lately. I've been praying so much also, that God really would show me the whole truth (and I'm open in my heart for whatever God wants to show me, whether I feel it's easy or "legalistic" in my eyes).

I know verses like Ephesians 2:8-9 which says: "for by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, that no one would boast."

For many christians this settles the case, they think "OK. We're saved by grace, then of course it makes no sense that we can lose our salvation by our works, or else, how can be be saved by grace?" And it seems right to me as well. But what if something else is meant by it? I'm not trying to remove your assurance of salvation, just checking if we got it right. What if he's saying that everyone can be saved by believing in Jesus, but if they don't work out their salvation by walking in forgiveness towards others, by not living in sin and etc, they will spiritually die?

How can I really know that Jesus' warnings about not forgiving (as in Matthew 18) is directed towards christians for example? Or His warning about servants that started drinking and beating the other servants of Christ (Matthew 24)? Or Paul in Galatians 5, 1 Corinthians 6 and Ephesians 5 warning that those who do "this, this, this" will not inherit God's kingdom.

I'm confused, and have read SO MUCH. Not only the bible either. Calvinists, arminians, pentecostal beliefs, baptist beliefs, OSAS and so much more.

May the Lord reveal His truth to us! And may our hearts receive that truth.

 

[Serving Zion]

Hi @bozzy, does this help?

 

[1213]

...
I'm confused, and have read SO MUCH. Not only the bible either. Calvinists, arminians, pentecostal beliefs, baptist beliefs, OSAS and so much more.

May the Lord reveal His truth to us! And may our hearts receive that truth.

I think the key thing is to understand, salvation means that your current sin is forgiven. You are saved from the judgment that comes because of sin.

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23

Now, the forgiveness of sin gives person a new beginning for clean table. If you after that go back to sin, the forgiveness was not useful, similarly as it is not very useful to clean your car and right after that mess it with mud. That is the reason why Jesus taught that we should repent.


"Repent! For the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand."
Matt. 4:17


"Neither do I condemn you. Go your way. From now on, sin no more."
John 8:11

The eternal life is for righteous people. If one doesn’t become righteous after forgiveness, the forgiveness is not very useful.

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

But even righteous person may make mistakes, and if so, because he is righteous, he regrets when he understands that he has done wrongly and it can be forgiven.

For a righteous man falls seven times, and rises up again; But the wicked are overthrown by calamity.
Pro. 24:16

I think sin really means that person rejects God. If you don’t reject God, you are not in sin.


He who does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. To this end the Son of God was revealed, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whoever is born of God doesn't commit sin, because his seed remains in him; and he can't sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are revealed, and the children of the devil. Whoever doesn't do righteousness is not of God, neither is he who doesn't love his brother.
1 John 3:7-10

 

[Adstar]

Thanks for your reply. When I said "living in sin knowingly" I meant if someone LIVES in a certain sin (for example adultery, fornication, unforgiveness, alcoholism) and they know that what they are doing is sinful.

I don't think born again christians have a norm of living in sin (since the bible says those born of God do not sin), but maybe they have been trying to break free from for example let's say pornography, and they just give up trying to break free and just give in to living in it, although they know it is a sin. What happens to such a person? Does his born again spirit die? Is he on the way to heaven?

I guess I'm trying to find a proof that Jesus' warnings and the other warnings are really directed towards false believers and unbelievers, if that is the truth. But I'm not sure yet.

Thanks for giving me your thoughts on the term Living in sin knowingly.. To me the term living in sin is associated with an attitude of rebellion against the standards of God.. So a person who is living in sin will be engaged for example in an adulterous affair over a long period and who defiantly rejects the standard of God on the issue and intends to continue on in that adultery for as long as they can..

We all sin and we Christians who know the standards of God know that we are transgressing against the standards of God when we sin. But temptation and weakness see's us on occasion giving into sin but at the same time there is no attempt at justifying our sin before God on the contrary there is a feeling of regret and fear of God and a desire to acknowledge our sin to god and a desire to resist that sin.. So a repentant sinner will sin lass and will be resisting sin as much as they can.. Again it is about a different attitude.. Not one of rebellion against Gods will but one of acknowledgement of the truth and goodness of Gods will and the admission of our sins as being transgressions against what is good..

 

[Spiderkiller007]

I have always wondered about those things as well , I find grace hard to understand I would love to have the peace or assurance of salvation but I find I cannot " just have faith " I know faith without works is dead , but then we cannot work our way to heaven , so how do I just relax and let God lead when i am not sure if it is his voice I hear and not my own inner voice ? The closest I can figure is if once saved always saved then the rewards we stand to loose must be vast and great ! I am referring to the scripture that talks about our works tested by fire to see what is left , but for me just having peace and assurance of salvation would be fantastic ! But I have fell in my walk and recently came back I am trying to find the proper way like you , when I first became a Christian I was legalistic and it was tough then I went far to liberal now I just want peace , love and acceptance. I hope and pray you find your answer

 

[Winken]

Thanks, I do believe in following the inner witness of the Holy Spirit. I guess my problem has more been that when I am supposed to go to sleep at night I start thinking "Have I remembered to forgive everyone? Have I asked for God's forgiveness for every sin? Is my heart repentant?" And If I don't find myself sure about those things I don't dare go to sleep, being afraid of hell. I think maybe something is wrong. Or is this how we are supposed to live? Is this what Paul meant when he talked about working out your salvation with "fear and trembling"?

Hi...........
There are lots and lots and lots of points-of-view. The ultimate analysis, however, only the "POV" of the Holy Spirit applies. Here He is:

John 14:6, John 3:16-17, John 5:24, Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 8:1. There is so much more HE adds throughout scripture. You, obviously, have confessed Jesus as Savior. You, obviously, are walking in His Footsteps. There is NO way He is going to let you slip away into damnation. NO way! You are Spiritually-birthed, born again, safe and secure within His embrace now and forevermore. You and I will greet each other, shake hands, embrace, and thank God for where we are (Heaven) and Who He is (Our wondrous Savior), all because of His Amazing Grace and our confession in Romans 10:8-13. Let not your heart be troubled! HE is Lord, Savior, Master, Prince of Peace, and He loves you, now and forevermore!

I'm so grateful that you shared your post with us and that I have been alerted by HIM to respond.

 

[Late Apex]

Thanks for your reply. When I said "living in sin knowingly" I meant if someone LIVES in a certain sin (for example adultery, fornication, unforgiveness, alcoholism) and they know that what they are doing is sinful.

I don't think born again christians have a norm of living in sin (since the bible says those born of God do not sin), but maybe they have been trying to break free from for example let's say pornography, and they just give up trying to break free and just give in to living in it, although they know it is a sin. What happens to such a person? Does his born again spirit die? Is he on the way to heaven?

I guess I'm trying to find a proof that Jesus' warnings and the other warnings are really directed towards false believers and unbelievers, if that is the truth. But I'm not sure yet.

I think you also have to take this verse into consideration:

Hebrews 12:
[6] For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
[7] If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
[8] But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

God WILL discipline His children. Regardless of whether you sin deliberately, out of ignorance or in omittance, God will chastise you. God will teach you.

I have fought with porn my entire adult life. I have tried to rationalize it every which way possible. Along the way, God has beat me over the head several times. In the end, God is always right and His way is the BEST way, today and forever. Sometimes I'm a very slow learner. Be comforted by the fact that you do feel guilty because that's an indication that God is working in you.

 

[stealthsaint]

Hi everyone! Shalom to you.

So I've been studying the bible a lot lately. I've been praying so much also, that God really would show me the whole truth (and I'm open in my heart for whatever God wants to show me, whether I feel it's easy or "legalistic" in my eyes).

I know verses like Ephesians 2:8-9 which says: "for by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, that no one would boast."

For many christians this settles the case, they think "OK. We're saved by grace, then of course it makes no sense that we can lose our salvation by our works, or else, how can be be saved by grace?" And it seems right to me as well. But what if something else is meant by it? I'm not trying to remove your assurance of salvation, just checking if we got it right. What if he's saying that everyone can be saved by believing in Jesus, but if they don't work out their salvation by walking in forgiveness towards others, by not living in sin and etc, they will spiritually die?

How can I really know that Jesus' warnings about not forgiving (as in Matthew 18) is directed towards christians for example? Or His warning about servants that started drinking and beating the other servants of Christ (Matthew 24)? Or Paul in Galatians 5, 1 Corinthians 6 and Ephesians 5 warning that those who do "this, this, this" will not inherit God's kingdom.

I'm confused, and have read SO MUCH. Not only the bible either. Calvinists, arminians, pentecostal beliefs, baptist beliefs, OSAS and so much more.

May the Lord reveal His truth to us! And may our hearts receive that truth.

I applaud your dedication to pray and eceive with an open heart. Kingdom has an underlying reward system. Ruling on Lord's throne with Lord, authority over cities (the Number seems to vary, and of course serve now and be served later or Be served now and serve later. There is mention of two KINGdoms One of Heaven (around the earth) and the KINGdom of God total creation (i am not clear on this I have seen it illustrated in beginning or my journey seeking intimacy. Salvation is eternal and in the present, Failure as mentioned may just affect the now not the eternal??? Grace be multiplied through our faith works of obedience.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

The difference between a genuinely converted believer in Christ and a religious hypocrite is that a genuine believer is not afraid to show his or her sins to God. A religious hypocrite will hide them and give the appearance that he or she has "arrived" and is a saintly person. In fact, religious hypocrites can appear much more saintly than genuine believers, and this can be quite a deception for younger, less experienced believers who may be fooled into looking up to these people and allowing them to become mentors for them.

What makes religious hypocrisy an effective counterfeit is that you wouldn't know the difference between that and genuine faith in Christ by just observing their outward conduct. They would go to public services, say the right words, appear to be holy in their lives, even be involved in ministry, and be quite prominent and famous in it. We have seen some of the "big-name" ministries eventually exposed for their hypocrisy, with the result that many honest believers who have supported them, being hurt, wounded, and damaged by the deception.

A genuine believer could be mistaken for a hypocrite if when observing the outward behaviour, they don't seem to be living up to the common standard of what a believer should be. But that can be deceptive in itself because we look on the outward appearance but God looks on the heart. This is another major difference between an honest believer and a hypocrite. Although the hypocrite does all the outward things perfectly, he does not do any of the important things, like prayer, study of the Bible, confession of sin to God, mourning over his fault and failings, that a true believers does.

So, when we observe a professing believer being "super spiritual" and/or has a "holier than thou" attitude, the alarm bells should ring inside of us, because we may be in the presence of a religious hypocrite and not a genuine believer. A genuine believer is honest, sincere, and straightforward in his life and conduct, and his humble, kind, gentle, faithful, loving, joyful, and self controlled in his or her contact with others.

And yet, even that can be a deception, because a religious hypocrite can be all those things too. This is why we need the discernment of spirits and the inner guidance of the Holy Spirit to warn us to be wary of anyone who might look good, but something about them does not seem quite right. It can be just a little niggle, but just that little niggle can be a warning from the Holy Spirit to be careful and wary and not accept a person or what they say at face value.

Now when I talk of confession of sin and not hiding it from God, we need to be careful about that as well. Some sins should be confessed and discussed only with God in private. Religious hypocrites may confess chosen sins in public to impress others of their humility and that they are "sinners saved by grace", but this is to fool the unwary. I would be very careful about professing Christians confessing serious sins in public. Genuine believers are ashamed of their sins and are reluctant to confess them in public. They go to God's throne of grace and confess them there and then leave them there.

Also, you will be interested to know that genuine believers are more concerned about the sinfulness of sin than about the punishment of it. Religious hypocrites are more concerned about how the sin will affect their spiritual state and the punishment that will come for it. Genuine believers will be more concerned about the dishonouring of God and the disrepute to the Church through their sin.

When Jesus told the disciples that one of them was going to betray Him, they all asked, "Is it I?" But when Jesus talked about the punishment that was going to come to the person who betrayed Him, it was then that Judas asked, Is is me?" Judas was the guilty one, and he was not concerned at first and hid his intention to betray Jesus; but when the subject of punishment came up, this jolted Judas into asking the question, "Is it me?" The other disciples were genuine believers, but Judas was the religious hypocrite.

 

[bozzy]

For the sake of wanting to address your question, nothing more i will tell you something of myself.
At the age of twenty God had pulled me out if a terrible pit, he rescued me from a dire, and impossible situation and in one year totally transformed my life.
Without going into detail, it was made plain to me , God wanted something specific from my life. How did I respond to all God had done for me? I was utterly selfish. I went out with someone I should never have gone out with. God specifically showed me I should not have gone out with this person, but I went out with them anyway.
For the next Severn years, I lived in sin, and often got drunk and gambled.
When the relationship was finally over I returned to a Christian community I had previously lived in. The man who ran it told me:
God has given me an incredible love for you

So my sin had not removed me from Gods love.
I could give you many examples of the fact God still lived me and heard and still answered my prayers, but it would take too long.
I have never done what God always wanted me to do. And yet, he still loves me.
So have I got away without any repercussions in my life by not doing what God asked of me. Could I happily sin and get away with it?
No I couldn't. I have lived an unfulfilled life. God gave me a wife and family I did not deserve after my selfishness. But I was lonely even in the marriage, unfulfilled, life at times was a mere existence as I had not done what God wanted me to do. And often, my conscience seered me because of this. And I was never as happy since, as I had been that year of my life when God totally had first place in it.
When you don't do what God wants you to do you bring misery upon yourself, that, in my experience is your punishment, it is self inflicted wounds

Thanks for sharing brother! Yes, God is amazingly faithful and receives back when we repent, always. Amen.

 

[bozzy]

This goes right along with the series that I am preparing for the members of my church. Once God has given us grace, it can never be repealed. Yet because of our failures and testings, we can lose our assurance, peace, comfort and joy. But we will never be "un-born again". True, our sins hide God's face from us, and we feel very alone without the fellowship of God. But those who have received true grace will not allow discouragement to cause them to give up and run away from God, but they will run to Christ and hold on to Him with all their hearts and with a "trusting" faith, even though they might not have faith based on God's fellowship with them. When we are out of fellowship with God, true believers will long for it as in a dry and thirsty land. They will cry out to Him. In the Song of Solomon the woman says, "I looked for my beloved and could not find him."

There are times when clouds obscure the sun and the days are grey and overcast. But this does not mean that the sun has stopped shining. It is just that we can't see it. I went on a plane trip recently. At the airport the sky was overcast, but when we got to 35,000 feet, we had broken through the clouds and flew in brilliant sunshine. This can be our experience in God. His face can be hidden from us, and clouds may obscure our assurance, but our salvation and our standing with God is still there. It is just that we can't see it. Then, as in the day when the clouds roll away and the sun comes out, so the day comes when the clouds of doubt and fear roll away and we see the face of God shining on us once again.

So there is no real reason to be discouraged and cast down if we can't see the face of God or sense His presence with us. We maintain our "trusting" faith in Christ and get on with doing the will of God in our lives until the sense of fellowship returns. So we keep reading the Bible, praying, fellowshiping with other believers, going to church, being involved in worship, doing good for our neighbours - all through trusting faith, because we know that the grace of God is not diminished for us. It is still there.

Some go doubting all their lives, and even at the point of death, but they are in heaven today. Some others have a false confidence and think they have "arrived", even though they don't walk with Christ, or pray, or go to church, or do kind things to their neighbours. They are in hell today. A person can have doubts and fears yet have true grace. Others can be totally confident in their religious yet have no grace at all. This shows that whether we are confident and comforted, or are doubting and fearing, if we are converted to Christ and have grace, our salvation is secure.

Thank you for your words Oscarr. I appreciate you taking time to try to help. Shalom =)

 

[bozzy]

The more we come to understand just what Jesus did for us on Calvary, the more apparent our sin becomes to us. This drives us to the throne of grace with great gratitude for our salvation.

That you have become more aware of your sin does not make your salvation questonable, it means that the Holy Spirit is working deeply within you. Praise God for this and allow Him to work in you, changing you piece by piece to become more like Christ.

God's peace be with you.

Thank you, that answer blesses me. Blessings

 

[bozzy]

Hi @bozzy, does this help?

Thank you, yes it helped that you say that He will always tell us when we need to repent. I think that's what its about: A relationship. Its not a religion. Praise God. Thank you. Thank God for the cross.