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Not quite sure how you view salvation as an act of Gods merciful grace when you believe your cooperation is needed. Your hate for the doctrine of unconditional election proves what I’m sayingWhy does the requirement we are given over and over again in scripture-belief-somehow merit salvation? It doesn't. God is merciful to us, he does open the eyes of our heart. That doesn't mean we can't refuse his mercy. It doesn't mean we can't harden our hearts against him. Faith is not a work. We are saved by grace, (God does all the work) through faith, (which is simply trusting him to do the work) we are not saved by works, unless you are talking about God's work. The idea that this somehow lessons grace, because we merely say "Yes" to the One pulling us out of the pit is silly.
Very simple, God tells us we have to cooperate with grace in order to be saved. "By grace you have been saved, through faith.Not quite sure how you view salvation as an act of Gods merciful grace when you believe your cooperation is needed. Your hate for the doctrine of unconditional election proves what I’m saying
So Gods grace is merited? So God foresees whether a sinner is genuine in his “choice” and actions as being the basis for receiving this (subsequent) grace? How is this not works salvation? Did you just not flip the meaning of grace on its head? Titus 3:4-7. Faith itself is the result of being regenerated and saved by Gods grace upon hearing the gospel of Christ. How can a spiritually dead sinner go against his own nature apart from God graciously being merciful to him by opening his heart to receive the gospel of Christ? Prevenient grace according to free will theology = NO grace at all
So Gods grace is merited? So God foresees whether a sinner is genuine in his “choice” and actions as being the basis for receiving this (subsequent) grace? How is this not works salvation? Did you just not flip the meaning of grace on its head? Titus 3:4-7. Faith itself is the result of being regenerated and saved by Gods grace upon hearing the gospel of Christ. How can a spiritually dead sinner go against his own nature apart from God graciously being merciful to him by opening his heart to receive the gospel of Christ? Prevenient grace according to free will theology = NO grace at all
We read it the same. God gives the grace to choose Him to those whom will ultimately choose Him.But, I don't read Ephesians 2 that way. I don't believe God randomly decides who He is going to give the grace to see Him to. I believe God provides the prevenient grace to all to choose Him, but only those who will choose Him in the end (Based on His full foreknowledge of their life demonstrating the real choice they made with regard to Him not the immediately in-time often-emotional decision of a person) are given the subsequent grace of being born again by God.
Contrary to what some will claim, that doesn't make this a works salvation. I can't boast. Without God's major Gifts, I would still be dead in my trespasses and sins like everyone else. I couldn't have even made the choice without God giving me the grace to see Him and thereby choose Him. But, God doesn't give people His Word and His Spirit to walk like the rest of the world. His Word and His Spirit are not insufficient nor are they lacking effectiveness to do what God sends them out to do. For those who are truly His, not just professing to be for a season, He will accomplish their full salvation with their cooperation.
I believe the Scriptures. I also believe I have the witness of the Spirit talked about in Romans 8:16.
I was just explaining this to another, so here is what I believe:
I don't believe God randomly decides who He is going to give the grace to see Him to. I believe God provides the prevenient grace to all to be able to choose Him, but only those who will choose Him in the end (based on His full foreknowledge of their life demonstrating the real choice they made with regard to Him not the immediately in-time often-emotional decision of a person) are given the subsequent grace of being born again by God. In time, it may look instantaneous, like "I made a decision and was born again." But, God isn't in time and He already knows our ending. There are many who made a similar decision to mine that will have looked every bit like me for a season, but then will walk permanently away from the faith for whatever reason. If the gifts and calling of God are truly without repentance (or not revoked) as we are told in Romans 11:29, then you can't become unsaved. And, if saving simply made in a one-time momentary decision, then, even if someone renounces God a moment later, God's salvation wouldn't be taken away and they would be bound by their one-time decision. I don't believe that. I believe God wants willing worshippers and isn't desperate to fill heaven with people who pastors and evangelists manipulated once-upon-a-time, but who don't really want Him.
Contrary to what some will claim, that doesn't make this a works salvation. I can't boast. Without God's major Gifts, I would still be dead in my trespasses and sins like everyone else. I couldn't have even made the choice without God giving me the grace to see Him and thereby choose Him. But, God doesn't give people His Word and His Spirit to walk like the rest of the world. His Word and His Spirit are not insufficient nor are they lacking effectiveness to do what God sends them out to do. For those who are truly His, not just professing to be for a season, He will accomplish their full salvation with their cooperation.
We read it the same. God gives the grace to choose Him to those whom will ultimately choose Him.
The choice lies in the exercise of the understanding, will, and affections. Regardless of persuasion whether by the primary cause of God or a myriad of secondary causes.That makes absolutely no sense to me. what choice is there if one is predestined to make a choice?
Why does the requirement we are given over and over again in scripture-belief-somehow merit salvation? It doesn't. God is merciful to us, he does open the eyes of our heart. That doesn't mean we can't refuse his mercy. It doesn't mean we can't harden our hearts against him. Faith is not a work. We are saved by grace, (God does all the work) through faith, (which is simply trusting him to do the work) we are not saved by works, unless you are talking about God's work. The idea that this somehow lessons grace, because we merely say "Yes" to the One pulling us out of the pit is silly.
The choice lies in the exercise of the understanding, will, and affections. Regardless of persuasion whether by the primary cause of God or a myriad of secondary causes.
Are you suggesting if God had forseen that not even a single person had made the "choice", then Jesus would have died in vain?I get that but if one is predestinated to make that choice then they could not have chosen otherwise.
What the Father did for the prodigal son was totally unmerited favor, mercy, Love, forgiveness, pure charity and it would not detract one measure from the father's Love "if" the son made a free will choice to return for selfish reasons.Grace = unmerited favor. Free will = merited favor = works.
I have never made such a claim and neither does the bible. John makes it clear, "If we say we have no sin we lie and the truth is not in us."
Read 258 again. All of it. Especially the last clause, "but the Old man is still able to sin, and does."
This is not how salvation works. Where do you hear mention of an atonement? Or faith? It is simply an illustration of one "already a son" seeking to repent.What the Father did for the prodigal son was totally unmerited favor, mercy, Love, forgiveness, pure charity and it would not detract one measure from the father's Love "if" the son made a free will choice to return for selfish reasons.
His determination does not remove our exercise to say no to one thing and yes to another.I get that but if one is predestinated to make that choice then they could not have chosen otherwise.
Answer the question, I am using the prodigal son story as an illustration and something we have all read.This is not how salvation works. Where do you hear mention of an atonement? Or faith? It is simply an illustration of one "already a son" seeking to repent.
But it's not how salvation works.Answer the question, I am using the prodigal son story as an illustration and something we have all read.
The three parables go together (lost coin, lost sheep, lost boy) 11 Jesus continued: “There was a man who had two sons.... 1. they are said together with this introduction Luke 15:7 I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent.But it's not how salvation works.
People cannot repent unless they are saved. The flesh cannot stop being the flesh.The three parables go together (lost coin, lost sheep, lost boy) 11 Jesus continued: “There was a man who had two sons.... 1. they are said together with this introduction Luke 15:7 I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent.
Is the lost boy giving you trouble, since he is making what appears to be a free will choice?
Is the Father not represent God the Father?
You can still just address the question?
Neither. You are saved based on your choice to receive God's gift of salvation.Do you believe that you will be saved based on God's foreknowledge of your ultimate choice? OR
Based on God's random choice/selection?
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