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Saul/Paul of the NT and similarities of him found in OT

Discussion in 'Christian Scriptures' started by LittleLambofJesus, Jun 17, 2018.

  1. Doctor.Sphinx

    Doctor.Sphinx Well-Known Member

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    I think God used that to have the Romans protect him from being murdered by the Jews. The commander was alarmed just for putting him in chains! Lol.

    Acts 22:29 Those who were about to interrogate him withdrew immediately. The commander himself was alarmed when he realized that he had put Paul, a Roman citizen, in chains.
     
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  2. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

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    It just gives me the heevie jeevies to read that maybe Job wasn't "real".

    The comparison to Job and Paul IS rather striking. Both suffered HUGELY and in ways we can't even imagine.

    How did Paul die?
     
  3. Doctor.Sphinx

    Doctor.Sphinx Well-Known Member

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    Of course Job was real. There's a whole book on him in the bible!?
     
  4. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

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    Now this is interesting. I agree that God must've used used Paul's Roman citizenship to keep the Jews from murdering him.
     
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  5. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Excellent! :amen: :oldthumbsup:
    Interesting and excellent point.

    In John 10 they threatened to stone Jesus for supposedly blaspheming:

    John 10:
    31 At this, the Jews again picked up stones to stone Him
    32 But Jesus responded, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone Me?”
    33 We are not stoning You for any good work,” said the Jews, “but for blasphemy,
    because You, who are a man, declare Yourself to be God.”

    At the trial of Jesus, he is charged as being a criminal:

    John 18:
    29 So Pilate went out to them and asked, “What accusation are you bringing against this man?”
    30 “If He were not a criminal,” they replied, “we would not have handed Him over to you.”
    31 “You take Him and judge Him by your own law,” Pilate told them.
    We are not permitted to execute anyone,” the Jews replied.

    Stephen is stoned because he claimed he saw the heaven opened up and Jesus standing [usually He is shown sitting?]

    Acts 7:
    1 Then the high priest asked Stephen, “Are these charges true?”
    54 On hearing this, the members of the Sanhedrin were enraged, and they gnashed their teeth at him.
    55 But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked intently into heaven and saw the glory of God and Jesus standing at the right hand of God.
    56 “Look,” he said, “I see the heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.”
    58 They dragged him out of the city and began to stone him. Meanwhile, the witnesses laid their garments at the feet of a young man named Saul.
    8:1
    And Saul was there, giving approval to Stephen’s death.
    [Reve 19:11 And I perceived the heaven being opened and behold!
    A white horse and the One sitting on it being called Faithful and True. And in justice He is judging and battling.]

    Paul's calls the religious rulers blasphemers.
    Like Jesus and Stephen, Paul wasn't afraid to tell it like it was:

    Romans 2: [Psalm 74:10/Reve 16:21]
    17 Now you, if you call yourself a Jew; if you rely on the Law and boast in God;
    23 Who in law are boasting through the transgression of the Law, the God thou are dishonoring
    24 'For the name of the God, because of ye, is being blasphemed in the nations' according as it has been written.'

    Live by the stones, die by the stones:

    Reve 16:21
    And great Hail as a talent-weight is descending out of the Heaven upon the men.
    And the men blaspheme the God out of the blow of the Hail, that great is the blow of it/her, tremendous.

    The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

    The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover...................

    As a consequence, the legions were able to build their redoubts almost without any trouble;
    soon, their catapults started to throw heavy stones into the city.
    Under cover of this artillery fire, the Roman soldiers could start to bash the northern wall with their battering-rams.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2018
  6. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

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    Pilate didn't want anything to do with the murderous plot against Jeus.

    And there must've been a profound reason that Stephen saw Jesus STANDING instead of SITTING.
     
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  7. Doctor.Sphinx

    Doctor.Sphinx Well-Known Member

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    Here are 4 differences I noted between the two.
    1) God chose Saul from a position of weakness - in the site of men. God chose Paul from a position of prestige (Pharisee of Pharisees, Roman citizen).
    2) Saul traded something valuable (his daughter) for something worthless (Philistine foreskins). Paul traded something valuable (his Jewish heritage) for something priceless (salvation through Christ).
    3) Saul tried to obey God in his own strength, but didn't trust Him and ended up disobeying on several occasions. Paul was at war with Jesus, but became converted (to Paul) when He met Jesus, and always acknowledged his fallen state and God's grace.
    4) Saul tried to save his life and kingdom by whatever means necessary (his daughter, his son, murdering David). Paul was prepared to die for Christ, but God preserved him to carry out his plan.
     
  8. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Thanks for bringing that up!!

    That is the word James uses:
    I have got to read thru Acts again!

    Paul is told to leave Jerusalem:

    Acts 22:
    18 and saw the Lord saying to me, ‘Hurry! Leave Jerusalem quickly,
    because the people here will not accept your testimony about Me.’
    21Then He said to me, ‘Go! I will send you far away to the Gentiles.’”
    The Jews want to rid the earth of him LOL

    22 The crowd listened to Paul until he made that statement LOL
    Then they lifted up their voices and shouted, “Rid the earth of him! He is not fit to live!”
    23 As they were shouting and throwing off their cloaks and tossing dust into the air,
    I wonder how much the Roman centurion had to pay for his citizenship?

    25 But as they stretched him out to strap him down, Paul said to the centurion standing there, “Is it lawful for you to flog a Roman citizen without a trial?”
    28 “I paid a high price for my citizenship,” said the commander.
    “But I was born a citizen,” Paul replied..........................

    The Jews were right about the Romans coming to "spank 'em"
    The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
    The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover.............
    The Temple now presented little more than a heap of ruins............
    Of the captives the whole was about NINETY-SEVEN THOUSAND............[/QUOTE]
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2018
  9. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

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    [/QUOTE]

    Sheeeesh! The Jews were FURIOUS with Paul.
     
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  10. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Yeah. This is pretty radical.
    I decided to look up the Greek word used for "rid"

    142. airo ah'-ee-ro a primary root; to lift up; by implication, to take up or away; figuratively, to raise (the voice), keep in suspense (the mind), specially, to sail away (i.e. weigh anchor); by Hebraism (compare 5375) to expiate sin:--away with, bear (up), carry, lift up, loose, make to doubt, put away, remove, take (away, up).
    Strong's Number G142 matches the Greek αἴρω (airō), which occurs 110 times in 98 verses

    The exact word form of #142 that Paul uses in Acts 22:22.
    Out of the 98 verses in the NT, it is used in only 3 verses!
    1 of those at the trial of Jesus when the Jewish rulers wanted Barabbas cut loose. Pretty fascinating.
    (KJV)
    Luk 23:
    13
    And Pilate, when he had called together the chief priests and the rulers and the people,
    18
    And they cried out all at once, saying, Away with G142 this man, and release unto us Barabbas:
    Act 21:36
    For the multitude of the people followed after, crying, Away G142 with him.
    Act 22:22
    And they gave him audience unto this word, and then lifted up their voices, and said, Away with G142 such a fellow from the earth: for it is not fit that he should live.
     
  11. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

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    That's vicious.

    Poor Paul.
     
  12. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Not sure. Maybe standing in judgement?

    Time to go to the Greek

    Stand:
    2476. histemi his'-tay-mee a prolonged form of a primary stao stah'-o (of the same meaning, and used for it in certain tenses); to stand (transitively or intransitively), used in various applications (literally or figuratively.........................
    Strong's Number G2476 matches the Greek ἵστημι (histēmi),which occurs 163 times in 152 verses

    The exact word form of #2476 is used in only 6 verses........2 of those in Revelation:

    Rev 10:5 [Daniel 12:7]
    And the angel which I saw stand G2476 upon the sea and upon the land
    lifted up his hand to heaven,
    Rev 19:17 [Ezekiel 39:17]
    And I saw an
    angel standing G2476 in the sun;
    and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven,
    Come! and gather yourselves! together unto the supper of the great God;
    18 That Ye may be eating fleshes......[Zeph 1:17/Ezekiel 39:19]
     
  13. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

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    Interesting. When i think of Jesus standing, i'm thinking it's because of Stephen, and how Stephen's face was glowing, and as Jesus was simultaneously standing, that it was for Stephen that He did this.

    It's a lot to think about, and what you posted fits too.

    Good study.
     
  14. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Hi brinny.
    One of the problems the Jews have with Paul is that there is really no place in the OT that shows him coming.
    I mean Paul is practically half the NT, including most of Acts.
    All we can do is show the similarities between Paul and events/people in the OT, and is the main reason why I started this thread.

    To even hint that Paul may not be a true Apostle of Christ is, in my view, blasphemy of the highest order.
    This site below is actually a Christian site, [which I won't give the link to unless requested in PM]:

    quote from site:

    "Thus far, I have shown that Paul's concept of God's foreknowledge, and his doctrine of predestination not only do not exist in Yeshua's words or the Hebrew Scriptures, but there is much evidence to the contrary to be found in them.
    We might call this the DNA evidence against him (Doctrine Not Accurate). It is an important part of the case against him.
    But it is by no means all the evidence there is against his supposed authority.

    There is more than enough evidence to suggest that he was not even a true apostle of Yeshua... let alone the greatest apostle who ever lived as he is so often eulogized.

    There are a number of historical facts, including things that both Yeshua and Paul said as recorded in the Bible, that leave us with some very compelling evidence against his apostleship being recognized in heaven.

    There are several interesting facts surrounding this case that should be noted and kept in mind.............."
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2018
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  15. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

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    Sooooooo Saul's conversion, and being blinded and re-named Paul are not considered legitimate?

    Didn't Peter know and verify Paul?
     
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  16. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Of course it is legit.
    Peter mentions Paul's epistles here:

    The exact form of #G684 that Peter uses is only used in 2 verses:

    2Peter 3:16
    As also/and in all the letters, speaking in them about these-things in which are difficult to understand any which the unlearned and un-steadfast are wresting/twisting,
    as also the rest of Writings, toward the own of them destruction/apwleian <684>. [# 684 used reve 17:8, 11]
    Reve 17:
    8 The wild beast which you perceived was, and not is, and is being about to be ascending out of the abyss, and into destruction/apwleian <684> it is going away.
    11 And the wild-beast which was, and not is, and he an-eighth is, and out of the seven is, and into destruction/apwleian <684> is going away.
     
  17. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

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    How can anyone deny Paul is an Apostle, then?
     
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  18. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Good question. Perhaps because they are not really true born again Spirit led Christians?
    This verse sure didn't help

    2 Timother 1:15
    13 Hold on to the pattern of sound teaching you have heard from me, with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus.
    14 Guard the good treasure entrusted to you, with the help of the Holy Spirit who dwells in us.
    15 You know that everyone in the Province of Asia has deserted me, including Phygelus and Hermogenes.

    I did a google search for that verse on christianforums and behold! a thread of mine popped up :ebil: ^_^

    2 timothy 1:15 deserted paul christianforums - Google Search

    2 Tim 1:15 All of Asia turn away from Paul
    2 Tim 1:15 All of Asia turn away from Paul

    And what is posted next? A member that thinks I am a heretic because I created a thread on it. EGADS! :doh: :scratch: ^_^

    And according to Acts 16, the Holy Spirit forbade Saul/Paul from going into Asia. Interesting

    Young) Acts 16:6
    and having gone through Phrygia and the region of Galatia, having been forbidden by the Holy Spirit to speak the word in Asia,
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2018
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  19. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

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    Poor Paul.

    Regarding the Holy Spirit, He must have been protecting Paul at that particular time, from an early death if he ventured in Asia.
     
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  20. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    I don't know how or when.
    Guess you can look up in wiki:

    Paul the Apostle - Wikipedia
    According to these verses, both Peter and Paul's demise was to come soon.

    [We know it is before the 70ad destruction of Jerusalem, as it was still there when they were preaching]

    #G1531 is used only 2 times in the NT and that in Peter's epistles........

    2 Peter 1:14
    Having known that speedily/1531 is the putting off the booth/skhnwmatoV <4638> of me,
    according as also the Lord of us, Jesus Christ, makes evident to me.
    5031. tachinos takh-ee-nos' from 5034; curt, i.e. impending:--shortly, swift.

    Paul says his time was also at hand

    2 Timothy 4
    6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time/2540 of my departure is at hand
    7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:

    The same words used in Revelation:
    2540. kairos kahee-ros' of uncertain affinity; an occasion, i.e. set or proper time:--X always, opportunity, (convenient, due) season, (due, short, while) time, a while. Compare 5550.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2018
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