Saturday Sabbath??

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MattyJames

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Hello all,

Was discussing with my father the roots of Anabaptists and we were stumped as to whether you's observed the Saturday Sabbath or Sunday Sabbath.

I browsed through your list of doctrines but I didn't see any definate in this area.

Would appreciate any comments.

Many Thanks,

Matt James
 

HypoTypoSis

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I'm not much on custom and tradition though I do prefer to take my cues from Jesus and He made it ever so plain and Paul further affirms that I am to have dominion over the earth, that the sabbath was made for ME, and that that may be any day or every day whichever and whenever as I may so see fit.
 
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arunma

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The Bible identifies Sunday as the Lord's Day, which isn't precisely the same thing as the Sabbath. However, the early church (possibly even in the Apostles' times) began observing the Sabbath on Sunday. Personally I think that we ought to regard Sunday as the Sabbath.

Of course, putting aside legalisms, the important issue is that we take one day out of the week to rest. I think that Sunday is ideal, but any day will suffice. Some people are busy on Sunday, and maybe another day would be better for them.
 
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I know some disagree on what is/isn't the day we should observe at the Sabbath. Mainstream Baptist hold to Sunday as the Sabbath Biblically.

Here's a good explanation on why mainstream Baptists hold to Sunday as the Sabbath.

http://experts.about.com/q/Baptists-954/sabbath-issue.htm


We believe that the change in day for the sabbath to Sunday was Divinely Authorized. When Jesus declared that “the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath,” He wanted them to understand that He had the power to change the day on which the holy rest should be obversed and the way it which it should be observed. Scriptures clearly indicate that the Sabbath was celebrated on different days.
1. Orginally, as seen in Genesis 2:3, the Sabbath was to be observed after the six days of work by God. Here, in the institution of the Sabbath, it is distinclty declared to be a day of Holy rest after 6 days of labor, and it was to be a memorial of creation.
2. The next mention of the Sabbath is in connection with the gving of the manna (Ex 16:14-31). Here the manna is stated to have fallen for 6 days, that is from the 16th to the 21st day of the second month; and that the day following, or the twenty-second, was the frirst 7th day Sabbath celebrated in the Wilderness of Sin. “See for the Lord has given you the sabbath, so He has given you on the 6th day the bread of life for 2 days. So the people rested on the 7th day.” The Sabbath as a holy rest was re-established at this time. There is controversy over what day was actually observed. If the 22 day was a Sabbath day, then the 15th should have been also, but it was not because they marched that day. Dr. W. H. Rogers holds that “the only change of the Sabbath by God's authority is for the Jeews between the giving of the manna and the resurrrection of Christ. The first day of the week, but always the 7th after 6 working days was the day of the holy rest from Adam to Moses. The Sabbatism was separated from idolatry by changing it from Sunday to Saturday among the chosen people ‘throughout their generations,' 1500 years (Ex 31:13-14; Ezek. 20:12). At Christ's resurrrection expired by statue limitation this peculiarity of excpetional change, leaving the divine rule for all mankind, requiring 1st day Sabbath keeping, as had been the case for the 1st 2500 years of human history.”
3. The Christian Sabbath or “Lord's Day” has been tradition since apostolic times. It came early to be known as the “Lord's Day” to distinguish it from the Jewish Sabbath. That this change was divienly authorized is show (1) by the example of Jesus, (2) by the authority of the apostles, (3) by the practices of the early church, and (4) by the testimony of the early apostolic fathers.
1. Jesus placed approval upon the 1st day of the week, by meeting with His disciples on this day. The resurrection took place on the morning of the 1st day of the week. The four accounts of the gosples agree that the Saviour arose early “the first day of the week.” His first meeting with the body of His diciples was on the evening of the resurrection day (John 20:19); and the second on the eveing of the 8th day, which would of course, be the foolowing first day of the next week. There were 3 more “first days” before the ascension, but it is not said whetehr Jesus met with His disciples on any or all of them. However, there were 3 more appearances: to the 500, to James, and to the apostles (1 Cor.15:1-4).
2. The Apolstles authorized the change, doubtless due to the unrecorded instrutions of Jesus during the 40 days (Acts 1:2). Thwenty five years later St. Paul worshiped, shared communion, and preached at Troas on Sunday (1 Cor 16:1-2). This clearly indicates that the apostle sanctioned the 1st day as the Christian Sabbath.
3. The practices of the early churches are further proof of wirship on Sunday. This is shown by the passages just cited, and also by St. John's reference to the Sabbath as the “Lord's day” (Rev 1:10). Since he uses the prhase without any refrecne to the first day, it is eveindece that when the Apocalypse was written, the 1st day was gnerally know as the “Lord's Day” in contradiction to the Jewish 7th day.
4. Since some of the early apostolic fathers were associated with the apostles, their writings from the historical standpoint, furnish conclusive eveicnec as to the current thgouht of that time. For example, Ignatius, plycarp, Irenaeus, Justin Martyr, Tertullian, Clement of Alexandria, Theodoret, Eusebius, Origen, the Didache or Teaches of the Twelve all mention the sabbath observence being on the Lord's Day.


Putting all of this aside, I believe that God is more worried about the heart of the worshipper than the day of the worship. At my church, we worship on Sunday , Saturday, and Wednesday. Since God “lives in the praises of His people,” does it really matter what day we observe the Sabbath. If we become to legalistic and think that only Sunday or any day of the week is the only day to observe the Sabbath, then we are no better than the Pharasees who condemned Jesus for working on the Sabbath.


Colossians 2:8-17
"See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ.

For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, and you have been given fullness in Christ, who is the head over every power and authority. In him you were also circumcised, in the putting off of the sinful nature, not with a circumcision done by the hands of men but with the circumcision done by Christ, having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead.
When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross. Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ."
 
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MattyJames

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Thanks for clearing up. Although as you may fully be aware, I observe the Saturday Sabbath and therefor totally dissagree on all points made. :-D lol

Unfortunatly, I am bound by the rules, so a debate on the subject, though throughly anticipated, won't be acceptable.

Once again, thanks all for your posts. May God continue to guide you all.

Matt James
 
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Andyman_1970

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HypoTypoSis said:
Jesus superceded and threw all that out the window the day He decided to shuck an ear in the field and chow down.

If Jesus had violated Torah He would have been a false Messiah.

They did not violate the Oral Torah ( which is what the Pharisee's were worked up about) by rubbing the grain and eating it, they would have if they had kept some of it rather than eating the grain.
 
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Andyman_1970

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Saturday is the Sabbath at our house. We don't answer the phone if we don't want to, we don't schedule things for Saturday, we try to not be a "slave" to the things our culture gets all wrapped up in. Our family uses it as a day to enjoy each other and God's creation. We use that day to rest and relax after a long stressful week.

We do however worship on Sunday, it is not however a "Sabbath" for us.

I would also argue that for the fisrt 20 years (until the Jerusalem council) of the early church they observed the Sabbath on Saturday as Christianity was understood to be a sect of Judaism at that time.
 
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MattyJames

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mlqurgw said:
No one here actually keeps a Sabbath. It has never been changed to Sunday anywhere in the NT. The Lord's Day is never said to be the Sabbath. Christ is the Sabbath for the believer, see Heb. 4

Hello mlqurgw,

As I see it, Hebrews 4 speaks "of the Seventh Day" 4:4. Furthermore I believe that 4:9-10 states clearly that the Sabbath still requires one to cease from physical work, "as God did from His".

Like many scriptures, the interpretation of the Text depends on motive/ understanding of the reader.

I hope I haven't missunderstood your post.

Reguards,

Matt James
 
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mlqurgw

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MattyJames said:
Hello mlqurgw,

As I see it, Hebrews 4 speaks "of the Seventh Day" 4:4. Furthermore I believe that 4:9-10 states clearly that the Sabbath still requires one to cease from physical work, "as God did from His".

Like many scriptures, the interpretation of the Text depends on motive/ understanding of the reader.

I hope I haven't missunderstood your post.

Reguards,

Matt James
What is required to keep a Sabbath? The Law requires more than just not working. We read nowhere that any of the Patriarchs kept a Sabbath. It isn't even mentioned again until Mt. Sinai. To keep a Sabbath it must be done on Saturday; you can do no work except works of mercy, nothing that is for yourself; you must have a double sacrifice and you must put to death all Sabbath breakers. I don't have my notes in front of me but I will get back to you with the references.
This is why I said that no one here actually keeps a Sabbath. To keep it you must do all that the Law requires concerning it. If you want a day to rest by all means take it but don't call it keeping a Sabbath.

You may notice that the word translated rest in verse 9 of Heb. 4 is a different word than what is used in the previous verses. I do realize that many do interpret Heb. 4 differently but it makes no sense to me if it isn't teaching that Christ is our Sabbath. He did say in Matt. 11:28,29 that He would give all who come to Him rest.
 
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HypoTypoSis

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Since the OT command to observe the Sabbath was given to the Jews for the Jews the obvious questions arise:

1) Which is the more proper approach:
To use the Jewish or the Gregorian calendar?

2) Since the Sabbath is a Jewish holiday should not those that observe it also observe all Jewish holidays?

It would seem that if one point of the law is to be kept then all points must be kept. It also seems doubtful God is going to approve any who decide to keep only some of what God says to observe and to refuse to observe other holidays that God said to observe. Telling God we like this this and that but all that other stuff we're gonna toss out sounds like a dangerous business to be involved in. It is reminiscent of the passage where Jesus says,

"I know thy works,
that thou art neither cold nor hot:
I would thou wert cold or hot.
So then because thou art lukewarm,
and neither cold nor hot,
I will spue thee out of my mouth."

Dangerous, indeed!

HypoTypoSis
 
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arunma

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HypoTypoSis said:
Since the OT command to observe the Sabbath was given to the Jews for the Jews the obvious questions arise:

1) Which is the more proper approach:
To use the Jewish or the Gregorian calendar?

While the Hebrew calendar cycles according to the lunar cycle, days are still measured by the Sun. As such, I'm not sure the Sabbath would depend on what calendar is used. Modern day Jews and Muslims use lunar calendars, and yet their Sabbaths correspond to specific days on our modern calendars. So either calendar would likely yield the same computation of the Sabbath. Unless of course there's something I don't know about the Hebrew lunar calendar (which may very well be the case).
 
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HypoTypoSis

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arunma said:
about the Hebrew lunar calendar

It's worth it just to check out its extreme complexity. Of course, different sects have different rules, too. So, actually, any thinking it should be observed should be careful which way to go.

What about the 2nd question?

HypoTypoSis
 
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53Isaiah

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Romans 14
5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
 
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A Brother In Christ

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MattyJames said:
Hello all,

Was discussing with my father the roots of Anabaptists and we were stumped as to whether you's observed the Saturday Sabbath or Sunday Sabbath.

I browsed through your list of doctrines but I didn't see any definate in this area.

Would appreciate any comments.

Many Thanks,

Matt James

roman 14:5-6
col 2:16-20
acts 15:24-29
heb 4
matt 12:2-8

1 thes 5:17 worship without ceasing.... every day and every hour!!
 
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JPPT1974

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53Isaiah said:
Romans 14
5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

We need to really give that day
To the Lord as well as do things
Like the Lord does!
 
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