Saturday or Sunday Church?

[SabbathBlessings]

And you are free to engage in homosexuality, incest, and bodily mutilation because none of these are included in your ten commandments?

Of course not, all of those have an umbrella under the Ten Commandments. When we keep the commandments, we do no harm to God and no harm to our neighbor.

If really wanting to know and understand the Ten Commandments- it is very rich and God's perfect law, perhaps this series might be useful. It goes over each commandment in depth. If one is keeping the Spirit of the Ten Commandments, there would be no more sin. The Spirit is greater than the letter and if keeping the Spirit, the letter is automatically kept.

Ten Commandments | Amazing Facts

 

[bbbbbbb]

Of course not, all of those have an umbrella under the Ten Commandments. When we keep the commandments, we do no harm to God and no harm to our neighbor.

If really wanting to know and understand the Ten Commandments- it is very rich and God's perfect law, perhaps this series might be useful. It goes over each commandment in depth. If one is keeping the Spirit of the Ten Commandments, there would be no more sin. The Spirit is greater than the letter and if keeping the Spirit, the letter is automatically kept.

Ten Commandments | Amazing Facts

Homosexuals will stridently disagree with you that they are harming anybody. Likewise, the marriage of first cousins to each other (which is now considered to be incest) was actively practiced up until the beginning of the twentieth century at all levels of Christian society. European royalty were exceptionally inbred in that regard. By the way, there is no prohibition at all in the Bible against that form of incest.

Bodily mutilation, especially if self-inflicted, is not addressed in even the vaguest terms in the Ten Commandments. In actual fact, circumcision, which is not addressed in the Ten Commandments, is a form of bodily mutilation which was commanded by God Himself.

In addition, you are perfectly free to practice polygamy and slavery, according to the Ten Commandments and as attested to throughout the biblical narrative.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Homosexuals will stridently disagree with you that they are harming anybody. Likewise, the marriage of first cousins to each other (which is now considered to be incest) was actively practiced up until the beginning of the twentieth century at all levels of Christian society. European royalty were exceptionally inbred in that regard. By the way, there is no prohibition at all in the Bible against that form of incest.

Bodily mutilation, especially if self-inflicted, is not addressed in even the vaguest terms in the Ten Commandments. In actual fact, circumcision, which is not addressed in the Ten Commandments, is a form of bodily mutilation which was commanded by God Himself.

In addition, you are perfectly free to practice polygamy and slavery, according to the Ten Commandments and as attested to throughout the biblical narrative.

Like I said, I would watch the detailed explanation of the Ten Commandments I provided a link for to have a better understanding. I know it's hard to understand if one does not feel they need to keep the commandments, it's like someone who never had children trying to be an expert on child-raising.

We will probably have to agree to disagree and that's okay. Take care.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Like I said, I would watch the detailed explanation of the Ten Commandments I provided a link for to have a better understanding. I know it's hard to understand if one does not feel they need to keep the commandments, it's like someone who never had children trying to be an expert on child-raising.

We will probably have to agree to disagree and that's okay. Take care.

The detailed explanation of the Ten Commandments is provided in Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy. I prefer the Bible, don't you?

The reality is that the detailed explanation provided in the Bible makes no mention of bodily mutilation, marriage between first cousins, polygamy, or slavery - all of which were practiced throughout the period of the writing of the Bible and well into the nineteenth century. Apparently God was either unconcerned about these things or actively commanded them, as in the case of male circumcision.

 

[BobRyan]

The detailed explanation of the Ten Commandments is provided in Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy. I prefer the Bible, don't you?

The reality is that the detailed explanation provided in the Bible makes no mention of bodily mutilation .

It also makes no mention of deleting the rest of scripture.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The detailed explanation of the Ten Commandments is provided in Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy. I prefer the Bible, don't you?

The reality is that the detailed explanation provided in the Bible makes no mention of bodily mutilation, marriage between first cousins, polygamy, or slavery - all of which were practiced throughout the period of the writing of the Bible and well into the nineteenth century. Apparently God was either unconcerned about these things or actively commanded them, as in the case of male circumcision.

Oh I agree, the bible is the authority. Jesus gives one of the greatest examples of how He came to magnify the law in Matthew 5:19-30 and an example of this is murder begins in the heart. It starts with our thoughts and feelings and if we change our thoughts and feelings of hate and anger towards our neighbor ( or ourselves) and change it to thoughts of love, we would not be doing bodily mutilation or committing the acts of murder, so the letter would automatically be kept. The same applies for adultery, it starts with our thoughts and feelings which turns into actions.

Like I said we don't have to agree and that's okay. Take care.

 

[bbbbbbb]

It also makes no mention of deleting the rest of scripture.

It does mention the sin of adding to scripture.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Oh I agree, the bible is the authority. Jesus gives one of the greatest examples of how He came to magnify the law in Matthew 5:19-30 and an example of this is murder begins in the heart. It starts with our thoughts and feelings and if we change our thoughts and feelings of hate and anger towards our neighbor ( or ourselves) and change it to thoughts of love, we would not be doing bodily mutilation or committing the acts of murder, so the letter would automatically be kept. The same applies for adultery, it starts with our thoughts and feelings which turns into actions.

Like I said we don't have to agree and that's okay. Take care.

Right.

 

[BobRyan]

It does mention the sin of adding to scripture.

yep... I don't recommend that either.

Notice how the prophets Aaron, Miriam, Nathan in the OT -- did not add to scripture (so no "book of Nathan" in scripture). Nor did Anna in the temple in the NT add to scripture, nor did Agabus in the book of Acts write scripture.

In 1Cor 14 - everyone comes together and "each one has a Revelation" but nobody adds more scripture.

Prophets do not always write "scripture".

 

[HIM]

The detailed explanation of the Ten Commandments is provided in Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy. I prefer the Bible, don't you?

.

Amen! To the word and the testimony. If they speak not according to these there is no light in them.

This is to important for those who profess Christ and such a eye opener not to share repeatedly.

Let's take a look at Matthew. From the KJV Chapter 24 speaks of the tribulation and also the Sabbath. In Matt 24:20-31 Jesus speaks of the Sabbath being kept BY HIS FOLLOWS (US) through the destruction of the Temple in 70AD up to His Second coming.

VERSES 20 THROUGH 31 TALK OF THIS. AND VERSE 20'S WARNING to pray THAT our FLIGHT DUE TO THE PERSECUTION NOT BE IN THE WINTER NOR OR THE SABBATH DAY IS CONNECTED TO THIS.

How do we know?

By His use of the words For, And, Then, For, Behold, Wherefore, For and and in verses 21- 31 where it states the Saints are gathered. All those words are connectives, they connect what is about to be said to what was previously said.

So Are the Apostles around today to experience the tribulation and see the second coming of our Lord?

Have the elect been gathered together?
No, so this warning to pray that our flight not be in the winter nor Sabbath Day IS FOR US ALSO or those who will be blessed to see that glorious day when we the Saints are gathered together to be with the forever more AFTER the tribulation that is said to be like none before.

Matt 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Matt 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Matt 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Matt 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Matt 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Matt 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Matt 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
Matt 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Matt 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Matt 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Matt 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Matt 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other

 

[bbbbbbb]

Amen! To the word and the testimony. If they speak not according to these there is no light in them.

This is to important for those who profess Christ and such a eye opener not to share repeatedly.

Let's take a look at Matthew. From the KJV Chapter 24 speaks of the tribulation and also the Sabbath. In Matt 24:20-31 Jesus speaks of the Sabbath being kept BY HIS FOLLOWS (US) through the destruction of the Temple in 70AD up to His Second coming.

VERSES 20 THROUGH 31 TALK OF THIS. AND VERSE 20'S WARNING to pray THAT our FLIGHT DUE TO THE PERSECUTION NOT BE IN THE WINTER NOR OR THE SABBATH DAY IS CONNECTED TO THIS.

How do we know?

By His use of the words For, And, Then, For, Behold, Wherefore, For and and in verses 21- 31 where it states the Saints are gathered. All those words are connectives, they connect what is about to be said to what was previously said.

So Are the Apostles around today to experience the tribulation and see the second coming of our Lord?

Have the elect been gathered together?
No, so this warning to pray that our flight not be in the winter nor Sabbath Day IS FOR US ALSO or those who will be blessed to see that glorious day when we the Saints are gathered together to be with the forever more AFTER the tribulation that is said to be like none before.

Matt 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Matt 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Matt 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Matt 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Matt 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Matt 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Matt 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
Matt 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Matt 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Matt 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Matt 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Matt 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other

This is a most curious response. The context was the explication of the Ten Commandments. The full explication occurs in Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy. Later rabbinical scholars have expanded upon these books. In the first century two primary schools of thought were found in the Pharisees and in the Sadducees. Today, Judaism is marked by three primary divisions known as Orthodox, Reform, and Reconstruction. The Orthodox are also extremely divided. Nevertheless, all them share a common base in the Torah.

One of the problems with the SDA is their rejection of the Torah and their singling out of ten commandments which they interpret and apply entirely out of their biblical context.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

This is a most curious response. The context was the explication of the Ten Commandments. The full explication occurs in Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy. Later rabbinical scholars have expanded upon these books. In the first century two primary schools of thought were found in the Pharisees and in the Sadducees. Today, Judaism is marked by three primary divisions known as Orthodox, Reform, and Reconstruction. The Orthodox are also extremely divided. Nevertheless, all them share a common base in the Torah.

One of the problems with the SDA is their rejection of the Torah and their singling out of ten commandments which they interpret and apply entirely out of their biblical context.

The SDA church does not reject the Torah. Please quote anywhere from an official SDA site that we reject any scripture. Just because someone says something doesn't make it true. It's sad the amount of misinformation people shares without anything to back up such said statements.

Also, the SDA church has over 20 million members, if you want to really know what the SDA church believes or any church for that matter, you have to go to the official statement of that denomination and not an individual. This is what the SDA church believes in. What do Seventh Day Adventists Really Believe? - Adventist.org

Jesus came to magnify His Father's law, which means to make greater Isaiah 42:21 and we an example of this in Matthew 5:19-30, so the Ten Commandments has a much broader scope than being just literal.

 

[bbbbbbb]

The SDA church does not reject the Torah. Please quote anywhere from an official SDA site that we reject any scripture. Just because someone says something doesn't make it true. It's sad the amount of misinformation people shares without anything to back up such said statements.

Also, the SDA church has over 20 million members, if you want to really know what the SDA church believes or any church for that matter, you have to go to the official statement of that denomination and not an individual. This is what the SDA church believes in. What do Seventh Day Adventists Really Believe? - Adventist.org

Jesus came to magnify His Father's law, which means to make greater Isaiah 42:21 and we an example of this in Matthew 5:19-30, so the Ten Commandments has a much broader scope than being just literal.

Does your denomination obey all of God's commandments?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Does your denomination obey all of God's commandments?

I don't know what over 20 million people do, nor do I pretend to as only God is all knowing and will be the judge of all 2 Cor 5:10, but the SDA denomination believes we should keep all of the commandments of God.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

We no longer have to keep the Ten Commandments as a set of rules in stone, because when we became converted to Christ, we received a new heart on which God's moral law is written. It is interesting that six of the commandments involves what we stop doing when we repent of sin. The first commandment is automatically followed when we become committed to having faith in Christ alone. The only other commandment we have to do is to honour our parents.

The Jewish observance of the Saturday Sabbath was a shadow of rest in Christ. When we are committed to Christ, we rest from works to justify us before God. Therefore Christ Himself has become our Sabbath rest, replacing the obligation to observe Saturday as a holy day. This who continue to observe the Saturday Sabbath as a compulsory requirement, rather than a voluntary choice, are denying Christ as their true Sabbath rest. This is more than just choosing to worship on Saturday or Sunday. It is making Saturday worship a condition of being the part of the true Church and a necessary element of sanctification. To impose the latter is the denial of Christ and therefore there is doubt that people who do, and teach it are actually genuinely converted to Christ.

Being genuinely converted to Christ means that Christ Himself has become our Sabbath rest, and whether people choose to worship on Saturday or Sunday is irrelevant to true faith in Christ and development in sanctification.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

We no longer have to keep the Ten Commandments as a set of rules in stone, because when we became converted to Christ, we received a new heart on which God's moral law is written. It is interesting that six of the commandments involves what we stop doing when we repent of sin. The first commandment is automatically followed when we become committed to having faith in Christ alone. The only other commandment we have to do is to honour our parents.

The Jewish observance of the Saturday Sabbath was a shadow of rest in Christ. When we are committed to Christ, we rest from works to justify us before God. Therefore Christ Himself has become our Sabbath rest, replacing the obligation to observe Saturday as a holy day. This who continue to observe the Saturday Sabbath as a compulsory requirement, rather than a voluntary choice, are denying Christ as their true Sabbath rest. This is more than just choosing to worship on Saturday or Sunday. It is making Saturday worship a condition of being the part of the true Church and a necessary element of sanctification. To impose the latter is the denial of Christ and therefore there is doubt that people who do, and teach it are actually genuinely converted to Christ.

Being genuinely converted to Christ means that Christ Himself has become our Sabbath rest, and whether people choose to worship on Saturday or Sunday is irrelevant to true faith in Christ and development in sanctification.

I appreciate your opinion and thoughts, but I see it is not backed up with the scripture, There is no scripture stating we do not need to keep the Ten Commandments. God wrote His law in our hearts and minds in the New Covenant Hebrews 8:10 so they are not deleted and Jesus who is the Mediator of God’s New Covenant came to magnify His Father’s commandments Isaiah 42:21, often quoting and teaching directly from the Ten Commandments Matthew 5:19-30, Matthew 15:3-9, Matthew 19:17-19, so I think we should follow what Jesus teaches John 15:10, John 14:15 from Exodus 20:6. Paul quotes directly from the Ten to define sin Romans 7:7 and says what matters is keeping the commandments of God 1 Cor 7:19. The saints keep the commandments of God and faith in Jesus until Jesus comes again Revelation 14:12, Revelation 22:14-15. I understand a lot of people like to think their opinions and feelings are the same as scripture, but this is what we are warned about in the Word of God:


Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I appreciate your opinion and thoughts, but I see it is not backed up with the scripture, There is no scripture stating we do not need to keep the Ten Commandments. God wrote His law in our hearts and minds in the New Covenant Hebrews 8:10 so they are not deleted and Jesus who is the Mediator of God’s New Covenant came to magnify His Father’s commandments Isaiah 42:21, often quoting and teaching directly from the Ten Commandments Matthew 5:19-30, Matthew 15:3-9, Matthew 19:17-19, so I think we should follow what Jesus teaches John 15:10, John 14:15 from Exodus 20:6. Paul quotes directly from the Ten to define sin Romans 7:7 and says what matters is keeping the commandments of God 1 Cor 7:19. The saints keep the commandments of God and faith in Jesus until Jesus comes again Revelation 14:12, Revelation 22:14-15. I understand a lot of people like to think their opinions and feelings are the same as scripture, but this is what we are warned about in the Word of God:


Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Hebrews 4:9-10:
"So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God. For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His"
God's Sabbath rest is achieved through faith in Christ. The Apostle to the Hebrews acknowledges that the Jews observed Saturday Sabbath, but says that there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God. This means that those who are converted to Christ enter into a much superior spiritual Sabbath rest that makes the Saturday Sabbath observance obsolete. Therefore those who insist on observing the Saturday Sabbath as a holy day have not yet entered into God's Sabbath rest in Christ.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

We no longer have to keep the Ten Commandments as a set of rules in stone, because when we became converted to Christ, we received a new heart on which God's moral law is written. It is interesting that six of the commandments involves what we stop doing when we repent of sin. The first commandment is automatically followed when we become committed to having faith in Christ alone. The only other commandment we have to do is to honour our parents.

The Jewish observance of the Saturday Sabbath was a shadow of rest in Christ. When we are committed to Christ, we rest from works to justify us before God. Therefore Christ Himself has become our Sabbath rest, replacing the obligation to observe Saturday as a holy day. This who continue to observe the Saturday Sabbath as a compulsory requirement, rather than a voluntary choice, are denying Christ as their true Sabbath rest. This is more than just choosing to worship on Saturday or Sunday. It is making Saturday worship a condition of being the part of the true Church and a necessary element of sanctification. To impose the latter is the denial of Christ and therefore there is doubt that people who do, and teach it are actually genuinely converted to Christ.

Being genuinely converted to Christ means that Christ Himself has become our Sabbath rest, and whether people choose to worship on Saturday or Sunday is irrelevant to true faith in Christ and development in sanctification.

I see you didn’t quote scripture that says Jesus is the Sabbath rest and I am guessing because there is no scripture that says or teaches this. Hebrews 4 is teaching us and that in order to enter into the rest in Christ, we must cease from our works as God did from His on the seventh day and there is a Sabbath-keeping for the people of God.

Hebrews 4 is referring to two different rest- the gospel rest and the seventh day Sabbath rest (commandment)

This is what the scripture says:

Hebrews 4:10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.

To enter into the rest in Christ (His rest) you must also ceased from his works as God did from His. So we have to do something to enter His rest, we must cease from our work as God did from His. When does God cease from His work? This very passage tells us.

Hebrews 4:4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way:“And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”;

Which is a direct quote from Genesis 2:1-3 which God repeated three times.

Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished. 2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

The certain place is where God spoke and God wrote His Testimony and will for His children, the Ten Commandments with His own finger. Exodus 31:18, Exodus 34:28, Exodus 20

This very passage confirms we are to keep the seventh day Sabbath for the people of God.

Hebrews 4:9 There remains therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

Rest here is sabbatismos which literally means keeping of the Sabbath. So this verse says there remains a keeping of the Sabbath for the people of God.

σαββατισμὸς (sabbatismos)
Noun - Nominative Masculine Singular
Strong's 4520: A keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest


If you notice the Sabbath is never referred to in scripture as the Sabbath of the Jews. God said the Sabbath is the holy day of the Lord thy God Exodus 20:10, Isaiah 58:13 and why would God want us to keep holy a different day than what is holy to Him or keep a day God deemed to do all work and labor Exodus 20:9 instead of the day God made holy and blessed. Genesis 2:1-3, Exodus 20:8-11. This is a man-made teaching and Jesus warns us about keeping the traditions of man over the commandments of God quoting directly from the Ten Commandments. Matthew 15:3-9. I think we should trust the scriptures and the Sabbath commandment was personally both written and spoken by God. Exodus 31:18, Exodus 20

 

[bbbbbbb]

I don't know what over 20 million people do, nor do I pretend to as only God is all knowing and will be the judge of all 2 Cor 5:10, but the SDA denomination believes we should keep all of the commandments of God.

All? Does the SDA believe in offering lambs and goats in the Temple in Jerusalem?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

All? Does the SDA believe in offering lambs and goats in the Temple in Jerusalem?

No, read Hebrews 10. This was an Old Covenant sacrificial ordinance that pointed to Jesus on the cross. Colossians 2:14-17 Why would we sacrifice goats or lambs for the forgiveness of sins when Christ blood is sufficient to forgive us of all sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness when we repent and turn from sin and walk with Jesus in obedience to Him. There is no New Covenant scripture stating we need to sacrifice lambs for the forgiveness of sins, but there is new covenant scripture telling us to obey the commandments of God and Jesus quotes and teaches directly from the Ten Commandments. Matthew 5:19-30, Matthew 19:17-19, Matthew 15:3-9. We should follow the scripture. Take care.