Saturday or Sunday Church?

[SabbathBlessings]

Thanks for the references.

Remember, what we are looking for is the obvious church that keeps all the commandments of God.

So it's not just finding a group somewhere that is keeping the Sabbath.

They would be keeping the Sabbath to the letter,

Following all the clean laws to the letter,

Tithing to the letter,

And if you believe that prophecy is an identifying mark of the remnant Church, having or at least endorsing prophecy as well.

The church that Jesus built would be prevailing against the gates of hell and shining like a city on a hill regardless of what earthly forces were arrayed against it. imo.

I never said it was a group that just keeps the Sabbath, but the Sabbath is a commandment of God according to God Exodus 20, Exodus 34:28 so that is obviously part of the commandments and part of the identifying mark of the remnant Church. If you look at churches who keeps the Sabbath commandment as it is part of God's commandments, you eliminate 99% of the churches, which is why it's a remnant.

The remnant Church will not be obvious to those who do not believe we should keep the commandments of God, just like it was not obvious to many people that Jesus was the Messiah and the One prophesized in scriptures.

Since the message of the Three Angles there are now millions of people who are keeping the commandments of God including the Sabbath. No one said anything about just keeping the letter, the Sabbath is more than a day of rest, it is holy communion with our Savior and receiving the everlasting gospel rest in Christ when you keep the Sabbath commandment as shown in Hebrews 4 Revelation 14:6-7. God’s people are in every church and God tells those to come out of Babylon (false teachings) Revelation 18:4 as we must worship Him in both Truth and Spirit. John 4:23-24

You might not think we have to tithe, but God says something different.

Malachi 3:6 “For I am the Lord, I do not change;
Therefore you are not consumed, O sons of Jacob.
7 Yet from the days of your fathers
You have gone away from My ordinances
And have not kept them.
Return to Me, and I will return to you,”
Says the Lord of hosts.
“But you said,
‘In what way shall we return?’
8 “Will a man rob God?
Yet you have robbed Me!
But you say,
‘In what way have we robbed You?’
In tithes and offerings.

To me its a blessing to tithe as God owns 100% of everything and giving back 10% is the least we can do, just like keeping His Sabbath holy, its the least we can do when you love God considering everything God does for us.


Take care.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I never said it was a group that just keeps the Sabbath, but the Sabbath is a commandment of God according to God Exodus 20, Exodus 34:28 so that is obviously part of the commandments and part of the identifying mark of the remnant Church. If you look at churches who keeps the Sabbath commandment as it is part of God's commandments, you eliminate 99% of the churches, which is why it's a remnant.

The remnant Church will not be obvious to those who do not believe we should keep the commandments of God, just like it was not obvious to many people that Jesus was the Messiah and the One prophesized in scriptures.

Since the message of the Three Angles there are now millions of people who are keeping the commandments of God including the Sabbath. No one said anything about just keeping the letter, the Sabbath is more than a day of rest, it is holy communion with our Savior and receiving the everlasting gospel rest in Christ when you keep the Sabbath commandment as shown in Hebrews 4 Revelation 14:6-7

You might not think we have to tithe, but God says something different.

Malachi 3:6 “For I am the Lord, I do not change;
Therefore you are not consumed, O sons of Jacob.
7 Yet from the days of your fathers
You have gone away from My ordinances
And have not kept them.
Return to Me, and I will return to you,”
Says the Lord of hosts.
“But you said,
‘In what way shall we return?’
8 “Will a man rob God?
Yet you have robbed Me!
But you say,
‘In what way have we robbed You?’
In tithes and offerings.

To me its a blessing to tithe as God owns 100% of everything and giving back 10% is the least we can do, just like keeping His Sabbath holy, its the least we can do when you love God considering everything God does for us.


Take care.

Is there any particular reason you choose to focus on one commandment? If we are discussing the Sabbatical commandments can you explain your practice of the Sabbatical Year and the Year of Jubilee? When was the last year that you fully rested from your labor as commanded by God?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Is there any particular reason you choose to focus on one commandment? If we are discussing the Sabbatical commandments can you explain your practice of the Sabbatical Year and the Year of Jubilee? When was the last year that you fully rested from your labor as commanded by God?

The discussion has been regarding the weekly Sabbath, that started right from creation and before sin. Genesis 2:1-3. The weekly Sabbath is the only Sabbath that is part of the Ten Commandments Exodus 20:8-11, spoken by God and written by God’s own finger. Exodus 31:18

The annuals sabbath(s) feasts days came after sin and is part of the sacrificial system and we no longer need to sacrifice lambs for the forgiveness of sin, because the blood of animals made nothing perfect, but the blood of Jesus is perfect for the forgiveness of sin when we repent and turn from sin and walk in Christ through obedience to Him through love and faith.

 

[bbbbbbb]

The discussion has been regarding the weekly Sabbath, that started right from creation and before sin. Genesis 2:1-3. The weekly Sabbath is the only Sabbath that is part of the Ten Commandments Exodus 20:8-11, spoken by God and written by God’s own finger. Exodus 31:18

The annuals sabbath(s) feasts days came after sin and is part of the sacrificial system and we no longer need to sacrifice lambs for the forgiveness of sin, because the blood of animals made nothing perfect, but the blood of Jesus is perfect for the forgiveness of sin when we repent and turn from sin and walk in Christ through obedience to Him through love and faith.

I see. Some of God's commandments are of much lesser significance than others so that nobody needs to obey them.

 

[Soyeong]

I find it to be a great conundrum that neither you nor anybody else on this earth has undertaken a complete and total rest from working on the Sabbatical Year or the Year of Jubilee. What gives?

The issue of whether followers of God should follow God's commands in accordance with the example that Christ set for us to follow is different from the issue of whether I am personally correctly obeying what God has commanded. Even if I were the biggest hypocrite in the world, then it would just mean that I would need to repent and to return to obedience through faith, not that I was wrong about what we should do. Some of the commands that God gave were specific to what should be done by those who are living in the land of Israel, and the Sabbatical Year and the Year of Jubilee are specifically in regard to how the land of Israel should be treated (Leviticus 25:2). There are guidelines in place to respect the Shmita year when buying produce from Israel.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I see. Some of God's commandments are of much lesser significance than others so that nobody needs to obey them.

Do you sacrifice lambs for the forgiveness of sins or do you trust the blood of Jesus is sufficient to forgive ALL sins when we repent and turn from sin? We should follow the scriptures Hebrews 10, and there is no scripture that says we can break the seventh day Sabbath commandment, which is completely different than the annual sabbath(s) feast days.

Take care.

 

[Leaf473]

I never said it was a group that just keeps the Sabbath, but the Sabbath is a commandment of God according to God Exodus 20, Exodus 34:28 so that is obviously part of the commandments and part of the identifying mark of the remnant Church. If you look at churches who keeps the Sabbath commandment as it is part of God's commandments, you eliminate 99% of the churches, which is why it's a remnant.

The remnant Church will not be obvious to those who do not believe we should keep the commandments of God, just like it was not obvious to many people that Jesus was the Messiah and the One prophesized in scriptures.

Since the message of the Three Angles there are now millions of people who are keeping the commandments of God including the Sabbath. No one said anything about just keeping the letter, the Sabbath is more than a day of rest, it is holy communion with our Savior and receiving the everlasting gospel rest in Christ when you keep the Sabbath commandment as shown in Hebrews 4 Revelation 14:6-7. God’s people are in every church and God tells those to come out of Babylon (false teachings) Revelation 18:4 as we must worship Him in both Truth and Spirit. John 4:23-24

You might not think we have to tithe, but God says something different.

Malachi 3:6 “For I am the Lord, I do not change;
Therefore you are not consumed, O sons of Jacob.
7 Yet from the days of your fathers
You have gone away from My ordinances
And have not kept them.
Return to Me, and I will return to you,”
Says the Lord of hosts.
“But you said,
‘In what way shall we return?’
8 “Will a man rob God?
Yet you have robbed Me!
But you say,
‘In what way have we robbed You?’
In tithes and offerings.

To me its a blessing to tithe as God owns 100% of everything and giving back 10% is the least we can do, just like keeping His Sabbath holy, its the least we can do when you love God considering everything God does for us.


Take care.

I believe we should keep the commandments of God, we're basically just discussing which ones.

Jesus said that when you light a lamp you stick it on a lampstand, and it gives light to everyone in the house.

 

[Leaf473]

Is there any particular reason you choose to focus on one commandment? If we are discussing the Sabbatical commandments can you explain your practice of the Sabbatical Year and the Year of Jubilee? When was the last year that you fully rested from your labor as commanded by God?

I love the idea of a Year of Jubilee. Properly practiced, it would prevent the formation of classes of very wealthy and very poor.

(Uh-oh, I'm starting to sound like a Marxist )

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I believe we should keep the commandments of God, we're basically just discussing which ones.

Jesus said that when you light a lamp you stick it on a lampstand, and it gives light to everyone in the house.

We it is most certainly not all of the commandments except the one God told us to Remember and is it the holy day of the Lord thy God for eternity. Genesis 2:1-3, Exodus 20:10, Isaiah 58:13, Isaiah 66:23.

The lamp will light up the house for those seeking Truth, but sadly many prefer darkness rather than light so don’t even notice. John 3:19

We most likely will need to agree to disagree and thats okay.

God bless.

 

[Leaf473]

We it is most certainly not all of the commandments except the one God told us to Remember and is it the holy day of the Lord thy God for eternity. Genesis 2:1-3, Exodus 20:10, Isaiah 58:13, Isaiah 66:23.

The lamp will light up the house for those seeking Truth, but sadly many prefer darkness rather than light so don’t even notice. John 3:19

We most likely will need to agree to disagree and thats okay.

God bless.

The light shines on everyone. Humans in general love darkness more than light, so people in general turn away from the light.

I don't think Jesus lit the lamp and then hid it away, or let someone else hide it.

But sure, we don't have to discuss these things anymore. Romans 14,
So then, let’s follow after things which make for peace, and things by which we may build one another up.

 

[Soyeong]

About specifically Catholics,

You're right that we're probably not going to find the phrase You should obey Torah in Catholic literature.

But you may find something about the law being fulfilled, thus we don't have to take the actions prescribed in it. But we aren't disobeying it.

Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel calling for people to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, he set a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Torah, he established the New Covenant, which involves God putting the Torah in our minds and writing it on our hearts, and then he gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so if we believe in what he accomplished through his ministry and the cross, then we will become zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Torah (Acts 21:20) and will not return to the lawlessness that he taught against and gave himself to redeem us from. The definition of "fulfill" that I think is correct is in complete accordance with what Jesus accomplished while the definition that you think is correct is in direct opposition to him, so please give justification for why you think my definition is correct and justification for why you think preference should be given to your definition.

When Catholics don't teach obedience to the Torah, but teach against obeying it, then how is that not disobeying it? Jesus taught his followers to obey the Torah in accordance with what God has commanded and in accordance with the promise the the Gospel, so we can choose whether or not to become his followers, but we can't follow him by refusing to follow him as if what he gave himself to free us from following him and to free us from being under the New Covenant.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The light shines on everyone. Humans in general love darkness more than light, so people in general turn away from the light.

I don't think Jesus lit the lamp and then hid it away, or let someone else hide it.

But sure, we don't have to discuss these things anymore. Romans 14,
So then, let’s follow after things which make for peace, and things by which we may build one another up.

The light is still there for those who wish to come out of darkness and seek Him in Truth and Spirit, by following the scriptures.

Take care.

 

[Soyeong]

I understand that some people say the law has been abolished, but I think it's important not to get tripped up over words. No sense dividing over something if the practice turns out to be the same.

Genesis 9 isn't limited to motives:
Whoever sheds man’s blood, his blood will be shed by man, for God made man in his own image.

And as you said, in the law of Moses, there are cities of refuge where someone can go after killing someone in certain cases.

Why does it make sense to you to interpret God has flip flopping back and forth about whether or not something is sin instead of being eternally consistent with His eternal nature? Do you think that God's laws are completely arbitrary, or that there is purpose and intent behind them that is teaching us about the eternal nature of who He is?

 

[bbbbbbb]

Do you sacrifice lambs for the forgiveness of sins or do you trust the blood of Jesus is sufficient to forgive ALL sins when we repent and turn from sin? We should follow the scriptures Hebrews 10, and there is no scripture that says we can break the seventh day Sabbath commandment, which is completely different than the annual sabbath(s) feast days.

Take care.

Of course I do not because neither do I claim nor believe that Christians are bound to any of the Law.

If a person professes that God's commandments are immutable and unchanging and applicable to all mankind, yet they, themselves, assign most of them to the dust bin of history, picking and choosing a few to obey and to obey them in a manner unknown to the original recipients of those commandments, then I question their theology.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I love the idea of a Year of Jubilee. Properly practiced, it would prevent the formation of classes of very wealthy and very poor.

(Uh-oh, I'm starting to sound like a Marxist )

Actually, I think that was one of the reasons for the commandment. In fact, as we know, one of the really distressing aspects of Hebrew culture near the end of the Old Testament was the great disparity of wealth which even existed after the Babylonian captivity and which was round condemned by the prophets.

 

[Leaf473]

Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel calling for people to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, he set a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Torah, he established the New Covenant, which involves God putting the Torah in our minds and writing it on our hearts, and then he gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so if we believe in what he accomplished through his ministry and the cross, then we will become zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Torah (Acts 21:20) and will not return to the lawlessness that he taught against and gave himself to redeem us from. The definition of "fulfill" that I think is correct is in complete accordance with what Jesus accomplished while the definition that you think is correct is in direct opposition to him, so please give justification for why you think my definition is correct and justification for why you think preference should be given to your definition.

When Catholics don't teach obedience to the Torah, but teach against obeying it, then how is that not disobeying it? Jesus taught his followers to obey the Torah in accordance with what God has commanded and in accordance with the promise the the Gospel, so we can choose whether or not to become his followers, but we can't follow him by refusing to follow him as if what he gave himself to free us from following him and to free us from being under the New Covenant.

Jesus was teaching under the old Covenant, so it makes sense that he would have taught Torah.

We've already talked quite a bit about the word Fulfill. There's going to be some amount of subjectivity, imo, which happens anytime two different people read the same words.

 

[Leaf473]

The light is still there for those who wish to come out of darkness and seek Him in Truth and Spirit, by following the scriptures.

Take care.

Amen to the following the scriptures!

 

[Leaf473]

Why does it make sense to you to interpret God has flip flopping back and forth about whether or not something is sin instead of being eternally consistent with His eternal nature? Do you think that God's laws are completely arbitrary, or that there is purpose and intent behind them that is teaching us about the eternal nature of who He is?

Why does it make sense that God's laws would change, or the application of them would change? Because of things like: we don't want to eat only plants today just because that's what God told Adam and Eve.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Of course I do not because neither do I claim nor believe that Christians are bound to any of the Law.

If a person professes that God's commandments are immutable and unchanging and applicable to all mankind, yet they, themselves, assign most of them to the dust bin of history, picking and choosing a few to obey and to obey them in a manner unknown to the original recipients of those commandments, then I question their theology.

So you think we can commit adulty or murder or worship other gods? Those are part of the Ten Commandments and if you break one you break them all. James 2:10-12

I don't think you're understanding the differences of the weekly seventh day Sabbath that is a commandment of God and the annual feast days which is an ordinance and part of the sacrificial system that points to Christ as His sacrifice is all that is needed when we repent. If scripture says we no longer sacrifice animals, why would you not follow the scripture? There is no scripture in the entire bible that says we can break one of the commandments of God. If you don't understand these differences or don't want to, that can be between you and God. For me, I choose to keep the commandments of God because God said so, and not sacrifice lambs, because I believe the blood of Jesus cleanses us from ALL unrighteousness like the scripture tells us when we repent. 1 John 1:9

 

[bbbbbbb]

So you think we can commit adulty or murder or worship other gods? Those are part of the Ten Commandments and if you break one you break them all. James 2:10-12

I don't think you're understanding the differences of the weekly seventh day Sabbath that is a commandment of God and the annual feast days which is an ordinance and part of the sacrificial system that points to Christ as His sacrifice is all that is needed when we repent. If scripture says we no longer sacrifice animals, why would you not follow the scripture? There is no scripture in the entire bible that says we can break one of the commandments of God. If you don't understand these differences or don't want to, that can be between you and God. For me, I choose to keep the commandments of God because God said so, and not sacrifice lambs, because I believe the blood of Jesus cleanses us from ALL unrighteousness like the scripture tells us when we repent. 1 John 1:9 so no need to sacrifice lambs.

And you are free to engage in homosexuality, incest, and bodily mutilation because none of these are included in your ten commandments?