Satan!

[Lilly of the Valley]

I believe that analogy is bad for a number of reasons, not the least of them being that God didn't give birth to Adam and eve but CREATED their very being. Also a loving parent who knew the mistakes would take steps to prevent it instead of encourage it. Also their is no "trust" God can have as he knows exactly what will happen.

But this well trodden path is best left for another thread.

He didn't create them sinful...they chose sin themselves of their own will. That's not God's fault. Yes...God did by warning them point blank of what would happen! No...God can trust us because we do indeed choose. He trusts his people to obey Him, and etc...so God does have trust because He doesn't control what we do.

 

[The_Saint]

Lucifer also came at Xanadu, again. This time, he had his gloves on.

Jesus said, "Don't let Satan touch you!!!"

Xanadu, being the quick thinker He is, requested in His mind a sword. The sword appeared in His hand and He quickly chopped off Lucifer's right hand and in rapid succession, his left hand. Both dropped out of sight as the battle was fought in mid air.

Lucifer was so stunned by the actions of Xanadu, he could do noting but stare.

Then Xanadu started to leave when He caught a glimpse of Jesus starring in astonishment.

Xanadu simply said, "What else could I do? I didn't want to break your Commandment."

To this day, I do not know what the gloves would have done. What I do know is that Lucifer had them on again and tried to touch me after God teleported me into Heaven and I stood before God and Jesus.

God wanted to know if he touched me and I said, "No."

God said, "If he had, then there would have been nothing I could have done to save you."

The mystery deepens!

 

[The_Saint]

Since this thread is all about Lucifer, here’s some more of what I know.

God said that Lucifer controls the media. That includes radio, television, magazines, newspapers, and whatever else form of media there is.

So, when questioned as to why I haven’t gone public, the media is already against me.

I’m sure Xanadu won’t have the same problem because The Holy Ghost is Lucifer’s Boss.

God said that He is going to give everything Lucifer has to Xanadu.

Xanadu is Righteous with God & Jesus and will not give the same performance as the Devil.


The Devil is the most annoying person God has ever created. Not that he is more annoying than any other evildoer, it’s because the Devil has elicited so many promises out of God – and God always honors His Word – so that there is really very little that God can do to put Lucifer in his place so that he will stop being such an annoyance.

Example:
When Xanadu was the god of Malibu in Heaven, and everybody was outside enjoying the sunshine and laying in a meadow of green grass, the Devil comes into the control room, and throws a switch while Xanadu wasn’t looking. Dawn, who was sitting on Xanadu’s lap, saw Lucifer reach out and turn the dial.

Suddenly, the skies turned dark and menacing. The wind picked up and started to howl. Rain began to pour in sheets and a tornado began to approach.

The people were yelling, “Save us! Save us!”

Xanadu, perplexed as to what was happening, did know that the Devil threw the weather switch all the way. Dawn spoke up and said, “Lucifer threw a switch. He turned it all the way.”

Xanadu: “Which one?”

Dawn: “That one.”

Xanadu reached over and turned the switch back, watching the weather clear as He did. When the weather looked pleasant as before, He stopped turning it.

Everything was back to normal.

Meanwhile, when God is sitting around the Round Table, discussing matters of importance with the other gods, goddards, and goddesses; as well as Archangels and the like, Lucifer becomes a total disturbance.

God Hates Lucifer.

However, God also told me, “No one ever dies.”

So, it is impossible for God to destroy the Devil. God has never killed a single soul that He has created.

Well, God said that there were a few souls when He first began creating souls that said, “Pain! Pain! I can’t stand the pain!” And God had to let them go. A terrible and tragic shame, though what else could be done?

So, once you are successfully created, you are in for all eternity.

 

[The_Saint]

There are other things the Devil can do to manipulate people on the earth. God said, “Lucifer thinks he has a right to talk to people. He claims that he is the god of this world. Typically, he talks to generals to get them to make war, though really, he can talk to anyone he wants.”

Lucifer is that loud, whining voice you may hear in your head, giving you suggestions or actually telling you what to do.

Everywhere I go and try to preach to people, Lucifer is telling them different.

No Christian is immune to this. Lucifer will stop at nothing to keep me from delivering God’s Word. There are what, 18 Moderators on this Board? That means 18 people Lucifer can try to manipulate. That’s why my Health is only 3%, the Man of God, and largely un-honored. I even had my Christian Icon revoked.

See how powerful the Devil really is?

And even though everything I stated here is true and correct, with God, Jesus, and The Holy Ghost as my witnesses, some of you will dispute everything I said.

 

[The_Saint]

This is how you get rid of the voice: say, “I rebuke you Lucifer in the name of Jesus!”

The voice will go away.


Also, if you say it out loud to an evil person, he/she too will go away and as fast as possible.

If you say it while you’re being mugged on the streets, they will immediately leave you.

 

[The_Saint]

Now, let’s say you were hauled into Court for some reason or other. God told me, “If you have a Judge rule your case, then there is only one mind for Lucifer to try to corrupt. If you go for a Jury, then there are 12 minds that Lucifer can influence. So, always go for a Judge.”

God also added, “If you go before a Judge, then I will be with that Judge. So, you will be talking to me.”

This promise is made directly to me.

Jesus said that God would put words in your mouth when you go before a Judge, if you pray beforehand. Also, do not rehearse what you are going to say because you do not know the words that God will give you.

This promise is made directly to all Christians.

 

[Job_s_First_Son]

He didn't create them sinful...they chose sin themselves of their own will. That's not God's fault. Yes...God did by warning them point blank of what would happen! No...God can trust us because we do indeed choose. He trusts his people to obey Him, and etc...so God does have trust because He doesn't control what we do.

This arguement has gone round and round in about 2,000 other threads. How bout we try something different. I don't know what that is yet.

I think there is a large difference between your perception of the God you worship and the traits of one I would expect a God to have. I think its kind of linked to outlook, like where I would see disorder you see design. These differing personal outlooks are difficult to reconcile in debate. I believe the questions asked of theists are atheist's attempt to see how you reconcile the difficulties we perceive with the possible existence of a God. (Don't know where I was going with this ramble...)

So back to the OP. Did God know exactly what Satan was going to do when he created him? (Yes/No please).

 

[trase]

God is the reason why Satan lives on!
If God created Satan and kept him, then, as the saying goes, every man (or god) is known by his fruits.
Why be mad at Satan for what he does? Should we not be mad at the god that 'let the beast out of the cage'?

There is a lot more to Satan than silly christian theology and its depiction of him. Having very sparse information as to the whole of Creation, christians have made some absolutely outlandish claims concerning Lucifer, Satan, Devil etc.. Here is a thread that might be of interest...


http://www.christianforums.com/t3084248-what-was-the-revolt-in-heaven-claimed-by-literalists.html



Enjoy

 

[Lilly of the Valley]

This arguement has gone round and round in about 2,000 other threads. How bout we try something different. I don't know what that is yet.

I think there is a large difference between your perception of the God you worship and the traits of one I would expect a God to have. I think its kind of linked to outlook, like where I would see disorder you see design. These differing personal outlooks are difficult to reconcile in debate. I believe the questions asked of theists are atheist's attempt to see how you reconcile the difficulties we perceive with the possible existence of a God. (Don't know where I was going with this ramble...)

So back to the OP. Did God know exactly what Satan was going to do when he created him? (Yes/No please).

That sentence alone is what makes folks miss truth. What you 'think' God should do doesn't matter. God is God and does as HE pleases...what you assume he 'should' do is meaningless especially since He's higher. He knows more than us and trying to say God should do this and that when we dont' even know everything isn't the most wise thing. He knows all...we don't. We only know a tiny fragment of the vast knowledge He has. He sees the full picture...we see a little bit.

Yes, because God knows all...but again, He didn't author it. And, as long as man continues to take the bait...then there will still be evil and sin...that's not God's fault. As I've stated, God warns us and tells us, but gives us the option to choose rt...he won't make us and to then blame Him for our actions that we choose is absurd.

 

[Job_s_First_Son]

OK, this is a little insightful. I believe you got my statment a little wrong. I'm not saying I think God should do anything. For me there is no God. I'm just saying for the purpose of this discussion there is a difference between the characteristics of the God you worship and the hypothetical one I have to envision to engage in this kind of debate. And being hypothetical I have to ascribe traits to him/her.

The real work is for me trying to start from a model of what I believe a God would be and matching it up with your very personal God. That way I get a better understanding of what is your vision of God is (and there's one for every theist) and see where you're coming from. Sometimes these may conflict with logic as I see it.

One point would be that for my model God, it is the author of everything's being. God can't be all knowing and the creator but not be the author. You disagree so the implicit consequense is that your personal God is either not omnipotent or omniscient as to be both would not be logical. (Your next step in the argument is that god can create a random variable and know everything because he/she is God). So now when we discuss further what God is I can mold my hypothetical God so that we don't just run into a dead end once we've run the arguments course. And hopefully you learn something too.

(This is so long I would never read this! Dang my ADD)

OK, so the next Yes/No question is: Could God have created Satan differently so as not to be evil?

 

[Lilly of the Valley]

God never created satan evil...he was Lucifer first...good and then sinned and became evil due to sin...God never made Him that way.

 

[Lord_Marx]

An all knowing God would already know about Lucifer's fall before even creating him.

 

[Lord_Marx]

And how could Satan sin when it was man who brought sin into the world?

 

[Job_s_First_Son]

God never created satan evil...he was Lucifer first...good and then sinned and became evil due to sin...God never made Him that way.

Fair enough.

Question Redux (Yes/No): Could God have created Lucifer/Satan differently at all?

 

[Lilly of the Valley]

Fair enough.

Question Redux (Yes/No): Could God have created Lucifer/Satan differently at all?

I say no. He was already created good. God doesn't create evil beings...they become evil of their own choice.

 

[Lilly of the Valley]

And how could Satan sin when it was man who brought sin into the world?

Man didn't do the first one ever. The first sin was pride, which is what satan did and the root of all sins is pride...

 

[tapion128]

That's a common misconception... God, in the context of the Christian/Jewish/Islamic God, did not create Satan, He created Lucifer. There is actually a difference between the two. Satan has another name, the Source of All Evil. The notion of Satan entering the serpent is correct, Satan is a... well, he needs a physical body to enhabit. Satan at one time did inhabit Lucifer. He also caused the rebellion and the sin of man. But Satan is no longer inhabiting Lucifer, he's inhabitting... Well I can't tell you who, though I know the person... See, the God that most people refer to is not the creator of the universe, but he did create the Earth and its people, or at least, some of it. There are 6 other beings like him that made races on the Earth, he made the people of Adam. His name in Hebrew is Jahhevahe, and he is one of the 7 creative spirits, Elohim in the bible. He also created the Christ-Spirit, but he did not create the demons or their hosts. Satan, the Source, created his own host of beings, called demons by us but for the most part they only kill people that try to bring people that could become useful demons to the good side... Oh, Hell is hot, but its not the place that you think it is... There are different sectors for different people... And also, Satan does not try to tempt everyone... There is a source of sin in all humans caused by the fall of man... As you try to become perfect, this entity becomes more prominent in your mind and actions... Jesus the Christ was the first human to overcome it, and there shall be more in time to come... But this source is not from Satan, it was adam and eve's fault that it was created.

 

[ReluctantProphet]

That's a common misconception... God, in the context of the Christian/Jewish/Islamic God, did not create Satan, He created Lucifer. There is actually a difference between the two. Satan has another name, the Source of All Evil.

It would be interesting to see a thread on "What God did NOT create"

There seems to be a lot of confusion on the names and characteristics from different people.

 

[azzy]

God is the reason why Satan lives on!
If God created Satan and kept him, then, as the saying goes, every man (or god) is known by his fruits.
Why be mad at Satan for what he does? Should we not be mad at the god that 'let the beast out of the cage'?

You obviously dont know Satan,,,if he was let out of his cage,you would be delightfully devoured.

And the only person responsible for my sins,is me.

Not the devil.

I believe the same is true for us all,we are all responsible for our own actions.

 

[Im_A]

You obviously dont know Satan,,,if he was let out of his cage,you would be delightfully devoured.

this is an interesting thought here. i agree with what you said in the rest of this response, hence the reason why i didn't quote it.

you said after this, that it is we are responsible, so doesn't your above quote contradict what how you said that human beings are responsible for their actions?