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Ratiocination said:I didn't, you said that we shouldn't judge one another, which is very true. Yet scripture still says that all things outside the christian org. are satans. You seemed offended by that so you said we shouldn't judge one another.
In 1 Corinthians 15:26 it says, The last enemy to be destroyed is death. In verse 24, it tells us that the end will come after everything has been destroyed and death was that last thing. The word destroy has the same meaning as in Hebrews 2:14 and Romans 16:20.
Both in 1 Corinthians 15:26 and Hebrews 2:14, death, Satan or the Devil go hand in hand. I ask again. Did Jesus destroy death or not?
Look at the time frame in Corinthians 15:24, Then the end will come
The law + Sin = Death
Let us go into this a little deeper. I am not going to go into detail about the eschatological matters. Many articles prove that Jesus has returned and the resurrection, judgment has happen in 70 AD. I would like to pose a question. The law passed away and death, Satan, Hades have been destroyed, all in the same time period, 70 AD. Where does that leave sin? In Romans 6:23 it says, The wages of sin is death. So, if sin still exists, what is the result from sin since death has been destroyed?
Again, let us start in the Old Testament. Go to Daniel 9:24.
Seventy sevens are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy.
What does it mean, .to put an end to sin ? In Strongs # 8552 or Goodwick # 9462, the word is Taman, which means to be finished, to completely destroy. Some say that it is talking about animal scarifies. That cannot be, because it talks about that in verse 27.
Ok,Casiopeia said:show me this where the sciptures say that ll things outside of the christian org. are satans.
Ratiocination said:Ok,
1John 5:19
19 We know we originate with God, but the whole world is lying in the [power of the] wicked one
and
1John 2:15
15 Do not be loving either the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him; 16 because everything in the worldthe desire of the flesh and the desire of the eyes and the showy display of ones means of lifedoes not originate with the Father, but originates with the world.
xhristlives said:Perhaps a more interesting solution to this suggestion is the idea that Satan is the ruler simply of earthly, materialistic concerns in this world, whereas God, though master of all things, is primarily focused on our souls which are our redeeming features (thru Christ). In this way i would wholly agree with Casiopeia who said;
[Satan has no more power of this world than that which MAN gives him.]QUOTE.
By focusing on our physical bodily nature-and the natural immorality that goes with this, we empower Satan. Whereas by looking to Christ, God is empowered, and our physical nature becomes irrelevant, and Satan becomes impotent...
xhristlives said:Perhaps a more interesting solution to this suggestion is the idea that Satan is the ruler simply of earthly, materialistic concerns in this world, whereas God, though master of all things, is primarily focused on our souls which are our redeeming features (thru Christ). In this way i would wholly agree with Casiopeia who said;
[Satan has no more power of this world than that which MAN gives him.]QUOTE.
By focusing on our physical bodily nature-and the natural immorality that goes with this, we empower Satan. Whereas by looking to Christ, God is empowered, and our physical nature becomes irrelevant, and Satan becomes impotent...
I find this twisting of my words to be highly inflamatory,Casiopeia said:that does not show me where it says that anything outside of Christianity are satan's. I see you taking scripture and adding your understanding to them but I do not see it declaring..."if you are not christian you are satanic". I find such inferences to be inflamatory and insulting to a good many people who are not Christians.
xhristlives said:Sorry-a more reasonable way to put it is---
i agree that God chooses to give us power, but WE MUST BE WILLING TO SEEK, AND ACCEPT IT...!!
Ratiocination said:I find this twisting of my words to be highly inflamatory,
Everything that does not originate with the father originates with the world, and the world is lying in the power of the wicked one, notice please if you dare how I have not even said what I think these scriptures mean, so why have you said that i've "added my understanding to them"!!! Why?
And where on earth have I said, "if your not christian your satanic"? Why have you said that about me?
This is a little unfair!
Careful there GWIT someone might say your calling everyong satanic,GodsWordisTrue said:You are right about the whole world following Satan. A person must be born again in order to no longer be a child of wrath.
Ephesians 2
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Ratiocination said:Careful there GWIT someone might say your calling everyong satanic,
Christian Love.
Ratiocination said:I agree with you that universally God is in control, but I think we should understand from scripture that Satan has been given the freedom of the entire earth, but only for a limited time.
Ratiocination said:
It seems clear to me from the scriptures that this period of time is to settle some serious issues that were raised in the Garden of Eden. These were issues of sovereignty and obedience. This issue was new to all creation, never before had gods right to rule been questioned, so God had to allow time to pass for man to prove our capabilities of ruling ourselves, this is where the nations fit in, they're man made, thus they have no divine approval as such, and exercise their own sovereignty aside from clear scriptual laws. So they do in effect belong to Satan in that he instigated the rebellion to begin with.
Rev. 12:9 says that Satan has gone global.
I'll dig out some scripture for this, but tell me what you all think!
Richard.
I agree with you so far!
Ratiocination said:
Now comes the entire point of this thread, if as most here agree that Satan rules the world, in a somewhat sneaky way, then when does this world of Satans mankind come to an end?
The entire issue of sovereignty was raised on earth, so logically therefore God will settle that question on earth. Exactly what would God need to see from rebellious mankind to determine whether things have been left long enough? The issue was simple, Mankind had to demonstrate how well we would take care of a global population of humans, to see if our way really was better than the direct rule we should have had from Eden. Note the purposes of God in Eden at Gen. 1:26-27, we read of how God said that humans were to fill the earth and subdue it, well under our system this hasnt be achieved, yet God said it could under his system.
So God would need to allow enough time so that there was no excuse not to govern ourselves properly, now enters the 20th and 21st centuries, have we not got governments that have technological achievement beyond compare, does this world not produce food to feed the world many times over, we can travel across the world in aircraft in less than a day. And we have a global population of humans; yet, people starve from lack of food, a basic thing to government. What excuse does mankind have not to fulfil these basic needs?
So is the issue being settled now?
GodsWordisTrue said:I love people whether they are saved or not. I was a child of wrath at one time.
Zippythepinhead said:
Ratiocination said:I find this twisting of my words to be highly inflamatory,
Everything that does not originate with the father originates with the world, and the world is lying in the power of the wicked one, notice please if you dare how I have not even said what I think these scriptures mean, so why have you said that i've "added my understanding to them"!!! Why?
And where on earth have I said, "if your not christian your satanic"? Why have you said that about me?
This is a little unfair!
ratiocination said:I didn't, you said that we shouldn't judge one another, which is very true. Yet scripture still says that all things outside the christian org. are satans. You seemed offended by that so you said we shouldn't judge one another.
Casiopeia said:show me this where the sciptures say that ll things outside of the christian org. are satans.
ratiocination said:1John 5:19
19 We know we originate with God, but the whole world is lying in the [power of the] wicked one
and
1John 2:15
15 Do not be loving either the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him; 16 because everything in the worldthe desire of the flesh and the desire of the eyes and the showy display of ones means of lifedoes not originate with the Father, but originates with the world.
Casiopeia said:that does not show me where it says that anything outside of Christianity are satan's. I see you taking scripture and adding your understanding to them but I do not see it declaring..."if you are not christian you are satanic". I find such inferences to be inflamatory and insulting to a good many people who are not Christians.
I encountered someone recently who was really ticked off that the U.S. subsidizies farmers to overproduce grain and then floods the markets of 3rd world countries with grain every year. To me it seems like the Christian thing to do. I mean, world hunger, right? Keep food prices low in other countries, right? But it ruins their economies. It was kind of an eye-opening conversation to me. I'm not entirely sure that the answer is so simple anymore.Ratiocination said:So God would need to allow enough time so that there was no excuse not to govern ourselves properly, now enters the 20th and 21st centuries, have we not got governments that have technological achievement beyond compare, does this world not produce food to feed the world many times over, we can travel across the world in aircraft in less than a day. And we have a global population of humans; yet, people starve from lack of food, a basic thing to government. What excuse does mankind have not to fulfil these basic needs?
So is the issue being settled now?
when does this world of Satans mankind come to an end?
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