Sanctification by Works

[visionary]

So.....with all that posting....you havn't actually shown ANY scripture that shows that believers in Christ are sanctified by their observance of torah law...

Nothing.

Yeshua told the rich young ruler.. "You want eternal life keep the commandments" And we know that you don't get eternal life without being fully sanctified...

2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of
the truth:​

What is truth? the whole truth?... God has a Kingdom, it has laws, and He will enforce them, He is merciful, and He is righteous, and He is our loving Heavenly Father, who so loved the world that He gave us His only begotten Son that who so ever believes [that includes not just saying "I believe" but obeys the "truth" [from the beginning] not just the middle.] shall have ever lasting life.

And what is the truth?? Read on:

2:14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

The Gospel is the truth. Belief and the obtaining of ther Glory of Christ! Just to know that is enough. It will change you!

that is a good start.. but still the start of the latter half of the story... you need the whole story.. from the author and finisher of the faith.. and that is the full gospel .. the whole story..

2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

ok

Hold fast in the legalism of the old covenant that we have been told to CAST AWAY!? I dont think so!

that is your opinion.. but the "legalism" Paul was dealing with has more to do with oral traditions which is a whole discussion in and of itself.

2:16 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,

GRACE!

2:17 Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.

Wow look at that! By believing in the truth of the Gospels and the Glory of Christ Jesus we attain the GRACE that stablishes us in good word and work. No need to target those good works by observance of the law, we are STABLISHED in it by Grace!

Now how did you jump from obedience to God's Word to good works?

Hooray!

 

[Dr.Strangelove]

I believe sanctification is by faith, not by works. Works are faith in action. Works acceptable to God only arise out of true faith. They give our faith life, teach us spiritual discipline, but only by faith can God cleanse the heart of all sin.

Act 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

Only after we confess our sins are we cleansed of them, and this readies us for Heaven.

1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Then we can keep His commandments and allow His love in us to be perfected. The keeping of the word is the evidence of faith, not the means of grace.

1Jn 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

If we do not have true faith (which is an act of God on the heart) we are not fit to have any acceptable works before Him (Eph 2:8-10)

1) Faith is the gracious gift of God.
2) Sanctification is the gracious gift of God.
3) Works are acceptable to God only through faith. (Heb. 11:6)
4) God's grace ordinarily comes through His ordained means.

Faith from the beginning through to the end, by God's grace, for His glory.

I will do a little more later.

Supreme post Contra! Well done Sir.

It's all Grace.

How can we possibly add to that?

3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.​

 

[ContraMundum]

Yeshua told the rich young ruler.. "You want eternal life keep the commandments" And we know that you don't get eternal life without being fully sanctified...

That man lived under the Mosaic Covenant....you do not. You never have. You never will. You are called to live under a more glorious Covenant (2 Cor 3)

Secondly, that man left "sad", because he knew of the enormity of what he had been asked to do. His works would never cleanse his heart of his attachment to his possessions. He needed more.

This is the point of the whole story. You cannot be saved by your own efforts.

The narrative ends this way:

Mat 19:25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?
26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.


Vis, if you honestly think a sinners heart is cleansed by giving away one's possessions, or going to a religious gathering on Saturday or eating certain foods or whatever then I'm afraid you are in the same dilemma as the rich young ruler. Surely you have not also abandoned the Gospel as many here have?

 

[child of Jesus]

Yeshua told the rich young ruler.. "You want eternal life keep the commandments"

the context of his passage is as follows...if you take that passage out of its context you have corrupted it. it means THE OPPOSITE of what you are trying to make it say:

Luke 18:9-29

And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

And they brought unto him also infants, that he would touch them: but when his disciples saw it, they rebuked them. But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God. Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.

And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God. Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother. And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up. Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me. And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich. And when Jesus saw that he was very sorrowful, he said, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God! For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. And they that heard it said, Who then can be saved? And he said, The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.

1) the young man wasn't saved.

2) notice he asks what HE CAN DO

3) the message from Jesus is that even if he had indeed kept all those commandments from his youth (Jesus doesn't say he didn't), it was not going to save him:

4) UNLESS he sold all that (counted it as dung as Paul did) and WENT TO JESUS for forgiveness of sins and justifcation.

keeping the Law and bull and goats, even selling all you have and giving to the poor are WORTHLESS if you do not follow Jesus by repenting of sin and unbelief, dying to self and the world and being born again (crucified and risen with Christ):

BY FAITH IN HIS FINISHED WORK.

5) the passage about the little children is the bridge between the parable of the self-righteous Pharisee and the publican, and explains that we must come empty-handed and trusting in Our Lord. then we have the young man who says he kept the Law and asks what he can now DO (earn it by works or self-merit)...notice he rejects the offer of salvation (for a time, let's hope he repented)

6) Jesus says, however, there is hope for such as those...it happens everyday when they realize nothing but JESUS and His Work can save.

 

[visionary]

That man lived under the Mosaic Covenant....you do not. You never have. You never will. You are called to live under a more glorious Covenant (2 Cor 3)

Secondly, that man left "sad", because he knew of the enormity of what he had been asked to do. His works would never cleanse his heart of his attachment to his possessions. He needed more.

This is the point of the whole story. You cannot be saved by your own efforts.

The narrative ends this way:

Mat 19:25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?
26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.


Vis, if you honestly think a sinners heart is cleansed by giving away one's possessions, or going to a religious gathering on Saturday or eating certain foods or whatever then I'm afraid you are in the same dilemma as the rich young ruler. Surely you have not also abandoned the Gospel as many here have?

Why are you in this section of the forum.. amongst those who clearly declare that they do gather on the sabbath, eat certain foods that God has ordained to be eaten, etc...etc.. This is only one step further in faith that we have taken that the rest of Christiandom has not.. and that is obedience to His Kingdom laws.. to the best of our abilities and with much study and prayer and following His guidance on the matter.. to emulate our Lord and Savior Yeshua... and not the traditions of man which would make God's laws void.....

 

[visionary]

the context of his passage is as follows...if you take that passage out of its context you have corrupted it. it means THE OPPOSITE of what you are trying to make it say:

Luke 18:9-29

And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

And they brought unto him also infants, that he would touch them: but when his disciples saw it, they rebuked them. But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God. Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.

And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God. Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother. And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up. Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me. And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich. And when Jesus saw that he was very sorrowful, he said, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God! For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. And they that heard it said, Who then can be saved? And he said, The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.

1) the young man wasn't saved.

2) notice he asks what HE CAN DO

3) the message from Jesus is that even if he had indeed kept all those commandments from his youth (Jesus doesn't say he didn't), it was not going to save him:

4) UNLESS he sold all that (counted it as dung as Paul did) and WENT TO JESUS for forgiveness of sins and justifcation.

keeping the Law and bull and goats, even selling all you have and giving to the poor are WORTHLESS if you do not follow Jesus by repenting of sin and unbelief, dying to self and the world and being born again (crucified and risen with Christ):

BY FAITH IN HIS FINISHED WORK.

5) the passage about the little children is the bridge between the parable of the self-righteous Pharisee and the publican, and explains that we must come empty-handed and trusting in Our Lord. then we have the young man who says he kept the Law and asks what he can now DO (earn it by works or self-merit)...notice he rejects the offer of salvation (for a time, let's hope he repented)

6) Jesus says, however, there is hope for such as those...it happens everyday when they realize nothing but JESUS and His Work can save.

No disagreement.. Just remember Yeshua had no issues with His obedience in those things He was obedient in.. just enlarged upon His depth of obedience which as you pointed out can only come with Yeshua...

 

[child of Jesus]

No disagreement.. Just remember Yeshua had no issues with His obedience in those things He was obedient in.. just enlarged upon His depth of obedience which as you pointed out can only come with Yeshua...

no, you've missed the point.

you must be BORN AGAIN. obedience in regards the rich young ruler: what do you mean by that? that he follow Jesus' EXAMPLE?

John 3:1-8
There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.



Nicodemus should have understood this, as the Old Testament repeatedly speaks of the washing of regeneration, the sprinkling of pure water (a clean conscience) which is the new birth....the water is the Word, and The Spirit indwelling is the new birth (we are crucified and buried with Christ and risen for our justification and seated wth Him already).

these are the sanctifying works and have nothing to do with us (though we LOVE HIM now, because He first loved us, and gave us a new heart, and shed Agape Love in our hearts so we may Love Him, and neighbour, and do good works which He has prepared beforehand that we should walk in).

we are JUSTIFIED, declared not guilty by a Sovereign declaration of full aquittal (WHITE STONE) by God when we receive justification by Grace, through faith, not of works, lest any man should boast....it is the gift of God.

"Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

 

[ContraMundum]

Why are you in this section of the forum.. amongst those who clearly declare that they do gather on the sabbath, eat certain foods that God has ordained to be eaten, etc...etc.. This is only one step further in faith that we have taken that the rest of Christiandom has not.. and that is obedience to His Kingdom laws.. to the best of our abilities and with much study and prayer and following His guidance on the matter.. to emulate our Lord and Savior Yeshua... and not the traditions of man which would make God's laws void.....

Ah vis..you ask the 1 million dollar question.

You see, almost every single reputable Messianic denomination says that Sabbath keeping, Kashrus and the like are done out of Christian liberty, to identify with the Jewish culture etc, not because those who don't do them are sinners, as you teach. This is my position also. I am in step with mainstream MJism, and defend it here because it accepts the whole NT, and you represent the more radical departure from established Christian beliefs, by saying that you are a better follower of Jesus than they are because you keep what you think are commandments for everyone.

I'm one of the few posters here in step with mainstream MJism on these points. I know this because I've read the books and bought the t-shirts.

I respect more mature views that say things like this:

"First, some see the Messianic synagogue as the "true Church". These individuals feel that the local church should be modeled after the Messianic synagogue and that the whole body worldwide should be keeping the Jewish Shabbat, festivals, and kosher laws, among other things. In short, for them the Messianic synagogue is living a "more authentic Christianity" that all churches should follow. We at Beth Messiah do not agree with this. Ours is a positive message about the restoration of our Jewish people, not a negative message about the Gentile church. This is true even though we understand and teach that the church has historically embraced major errors, such as Replacement Theology. Unlike those who see us as the "true church", we do not see our synagogues as superior. We are a part of the body, not above it."

Quoted from here, a mainstream Messianic group. If more people held sane, healthy views like this there would be much less controversy here. Chosen People, Jews for Jesus, and many others all concur and I agree with them.

 

[visionary]

no, you've missed the point.

you must be BORN AGAIN. obedience in regards the rich young ruler: what do you mean by that? that he follow Jesus' EXAMPLE?

John 3:1-8
There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.



Nicodemus should have understood this, as the Old Testament repeatedly speaks of the washing of regeneration, the sprinkling of pure water (a clean conscience) which is the new birth....the water is the Word, and The Spirit indwelling is the new birth (we are crucified and buried with Christ and risen for our justification and seated wth Him already).

these are the sanctifying works and have nothing to do with us (though we LOVE HIM now, because He first loved us, and gave us a new heart, and shed Agape Love in our hearts so we may Love Him, and neighbour, and do good works which He has prepared beforehand that we should walk in).

we are JUSTIFIED, declared not guilty by a Sovereign declaration of full aquittal (WHITE STONE) by God when we receive justification by Grace, through faith, not of works, lest any man should boast....it is the gift of God.

"Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

I didn't miss the born again... Let's take this same illustration.. and He experiences the born again experience.. what changes.. the grip on the riches.. the purpose in His life.. but not the Law of God.

 

[child of Jesus]

Ah vis..you ask the 1 million dollar question.

You see, almost every single reputable Messianic denomination says that Sabbath keeping, Kashrus and the like are done out of Christian liberty, to identify with the Jewish culture etc, not because those who don't do them are sinners, as you teach. This is my position also. I am in step with mainstream MJism, and defend it here because it accepts the whole NT, and you represent the more radical departure from established Christian beliefs, by saying that you are a better follower of Jesus than they are because you keep what you think are commandments for everyone.

I'm one of the few posters here in step with mainstream MJism on these points. I know this because I've read the books and bought the t-shirts.

I respect more mature views that say things like this:

"First, some see the Messianic synagogue as the "true Church". These individuals feel that the local church should be modeled after the Messianic synagogue and that the whole body worldwide should be keeping the Jewish Shabbat, festivals, and kosher laws, among other things. In short, for them the Messianic synagogue is living a "more authentic Christianity" that all churches should follow. We at Beth Messiah do not agree with this. Ours is a positive message about the restoration of our Jewish people, not a negative message about the Gentile church. This is true even though we understand and teach that the church has historically embraced major errors, such as Replacement Theology. Unlike those who see us as the "true church", we do not see our synagogues as superior. We are a part of the body, not above it."
.

if you mean by REPLACEMENT THEOLOGY that the gentiles inherited the Kingdom (Church) and the jews did not, that's ABSURD.

if you mean The New Covenant replaced the Old, that's TRUE.

we are one Body in The New Covenant. no difference.

 

[child of Jesus]

I didn't miss the born again... Let's take this same illustration.. and He experiences the born again experience.. what changes.. the grip on the riches.. the purpose in His life.. but not the Law of God.

haha.
okay.

if you like to show your devotion to Jesus by certain feasts and days and months that awesome!

but we're not to lord anything over one another, right?

we are ONE!

~ child.

 

[visionary]

Ah vis..you ask the 1 million dollar question.

You see, almost every single reputable Messianic denomination says that Sabbath keeping, Kashrus and the like are done out of Christian liberty, to identify with the Jewish culture etc, not because those who don't do them are sinners, as you teach. This is my position also. I am in step with mainstream MJism, and defend it here because it accepts the whole NT, and you represent the more radical departure from established Christian beliefs, by saying that you are a better follower of Jesus than they are because you keep what you think are commandments for everyone.

I'm one of the few posters here in step with mainstream MJism on these points. I know this because I've read the books and bought the t-shirts.

I respect more mature views that say things like this:

"First, some see the Messianic synagogue as the "true Church". These individuals feel that the local church should be modeled after the Messianic synagogue and that the whole body worldwide should be keeping the Jewish Shabbat, festivals, and kosher laws, among other things. In short, for them the Messianic synagogue is living a "more authentic Christianity" that all churches should follow. We at Beth Messiah do not agree with this. Ours is a positive message about the restoration of our Jewish people, not a negative message about the Gentile church. This is true even though we understand and teach that the church has historically embraced major errors, such as Replacement Theology. Unlike those who see us as the "true church", we do not see our synagogues as superior. We are a part of the body, not above it."

Quoted from here, a mainstream Messianic group. If more people held sane, healthy views like this there would be much less controversy here. Chosen People, Jews for Jesus, and many others all concur and I agree with them.

Restoration of Jewish People?? ... I am sure that is worthy of a thread all its own.. because I am sure the Jewish people are sick and tired of being told they need this or that.. besides what do you see needs to be restored.. their land, their identify, their association with God.. ??

As to the Gentile church issue... ongoing and need further reformation.. but then we all do.. nothing new there... and again I am sure that all Gentile Church established are bolted down and secured to their doctrines and like the Jews not interested in "restorations".. either..

Messianic Judaism in order to have their own little spot, must define themselves, identify themselves as unique or they will be lost in the crowd. They are a movement right now, and I am praying that God will continue to lead them. We are all travelling in the wilderness of sin, and we are all lookling forward to the coming of the promised land. Those who have joined with this tribe see benefits of both Judaism and Christianity.. and are hopefully spiritually discerning enough to pick out the gems of God hidden in each and blow away the dust/dross that has accumulated on these truths as the Holy Spirit teaches them to discern.

 

[child of Jesus]

Restoration of Jewish People?? ... I am sure that is worthy of a thread all its own.. because I am sure the Jewish people are sick and tired of being told they need this or that.. besides what do you see needs to be restored.. their land, their identify, their association with God.. ??

As to the Gentile church issue... ongoing and need further reformation.. but then we all do.. nothing new there... and again I am sure that all Gentile Church established are bolted down and secured to their doctrines and like the Jews not interested in "restorations".. either..

Messianic Judaism in order to have their own little spot, must define themselves, identify themselves as unique or they will be lost in the crowd. They are a movement right now, and I am praying that God will continue to lead them. We are all travelling in the wilderness of sin, and we are all lookling forward to the coming of the promised land. Those who have joined with this tribe see benefits of both Judaism and Christianity.. and are hopefully spiritually discerning enough to pick out the gems of God hidden in each and blow away the dust/dross that has accumulated on these truths as the Holy Spirit teaches them to discern.

the jewish people need to receive their King and Messiah Jesus.
then all things they were promised will be theirs.

what do you mean "gentile churches"? is there such a thing?

we're all Christians: all one in Christ Jesus.

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

penned by the Hebrew of Hebrews, a former Pharisee, of the tribe of Benjamin, spoken to both jew and gentile in Galatia.

what's too hard to understand?

why do people want to separate themselves from The Body in the way we see? all these sects.

none of The Apostles ever did such a thing, and that's certainly not what Jesus died to do - He broke down the wall, making the two ONE, in HIM.



~ child

 

[visionary]

haha.
okay.

if you like to show your devotion to Jesus by certain feasts and days and months that awesome!

but we're not to lord anything over one another, right?

we are ONE!

~ child.

There is only one Lord.. and He is Yeshua..

 

[visionary]

the jewish people need to receive their King and Messiah Jesus.
then all things they were promised will be theirs.

what do you mean "gentile churches"? is there such a thing?

we're all Christians: all one in Christ Jesus.

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

penned by the Hebrew of Hebrews, a former Pharisee, of the tribe of Benjamin, spoken to both jew and gentile in Galatia.

what's too hard to understand?

why do people want to separate themselves from The Body in the way we see? all these sects.

none of The Apostles ever did such a thing, and that's certainly not what Jesus died to do - He broke down the wall, making the two ONE, in HIM.



~ child

My thought exactly

 

[Dr.Strangelove]

the jewish people need to receive their King and Messiah Jesus.
then all things they were promised will be theirs.

what do you mean "gentile churches"? is there such a thing?

we're all Christians: all one in Christ Jesus.

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

penned by the Hebrew of Hebrews, a former Pharisee, of the tribe of Benjamin, spoken to both jew and gentile in Galatia.

what's too hard to understand?

why do people want to separate themselves from The Body in the way we see? all these sects.

none of The Apostles ever did such a thing, and that's certainly not what Jesus died to do - He broke down the wall, making the two ONE, in HIM.



~ child

As a Messianic Jew of the flesh and a spiritual Christian of the heart I'd like to applaud this post.

Thanks child.

 

[MikhaelDavid]

I do not have the time to go through all the posts that has been posted last night, through the night, and today.. Perhaps I can catch up sometime tonight...

But a note... StrangeLove said I did not provide one passage to prove Sanctification by the Law.. I beg to differ and I gave the best defense out that I could give and provided amble proof texts..

When you steep into Antinomianism you are stepping onto very shaky grounds and orthodox Christianity has fled from such a view throughout the ages.

So I rest my case and I believe it to be a solid case...

I will leave you with one one scripture proof..

Hebrew 12:14b, 15-17

"Pursue ... the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord."

"See to it that no one comes short of the grace of God; ... and by it many be defiled; that there be no immoral or godless person like Esau, who sold his own birthright for a single meal. For you know that even afterwards, when he desired to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for repentance, though he sought for it with tears."

Michael

 

[Lulav]

Oh I've heard of that covenant. Thats the one where God promises never to destroy all life on Earth with a flood again.

Short and sweet that one.

Hope He keeps to that one as I live near the beach!

Why hope? Doesn't your faith alone tell you he will?

 

[Lulav]

...and they never, ever, ever, ever will.

It's a heart thing.

Grace is too hard for the flesh to accept. The flesh always tries to work its own way to purity or heaven, depending on which man-made religion you follow.

In other words, real Christianity is too hard to accept for some people. It requires the humility to say "I can't do it" and the Olivet commandments of Jesus are too tough to follow for someone who would rather they be cleansed of their sins by following the Law of Moses.

The more people try to add their efforts to grace, the more they annul it and the more they rely on their own works to make themselves fit for a Heaven that only God can fit a man for.

Gal 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

You have to remember that large number of posters on this forum are not actually born again, Spirit filled, Bible believing Christians in good standing with the Church, which is the Body of Christ and the pillar and ground of the truth. A lot of posters here reject 1900+ years of Christian thought and exegesis of the NT, preferring themselves as sole infallible authority over the inspired word. Hence the heresy.

Carry on.

How was Yeshua crucified among the Galatians?

 

[Dr.Strangelove]

So I rest my case and I believe it to be a solid case...

I will leave you with one one scripture proof..

Hebrew 12:14b, 15-17

"Pursue ... the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord."

12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: ​

If that verse said 'pursue sanctification by obeying the Law of Moses'.....then you might have a case.

Gills Exposition handles this with minimum fuss:

and holiness: this being added to peace, shows that peace is no further to be followed than is consistent with holiness; and holiness here does not design any particular branch of holiness, as chastity of the body and mind, but the whole of holiness, inward and outward; and intends true holiness, in opposition to ceremonial holiness, which the Hebrews were fond of, and pursued after: it means even perfect holiness; for though holiness is not perfect in this life, yet it will be in heaven; and there is a perfection of it in Christ; and it is to be followed after, by going to Christ for more grace, and exercising faith upon him, as our sanctification; and by eager desires that the Spirit of God would sanctify us more and more, and enable us, by his grace and strength, to walk in the way of holiness, till we get safe to heaven:

"See to it that no one comes short of the grace of God; ... and by it many be defiled; that there be no immoral or godless person like Esau, who sold his own birthright for a single meal. For you know that even afterwards, when he desired to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for repentance, though he sought for it with tears."

Again no mention of torah law. By faith we gain Grace and do not fall short and THEREFORE there be no immoral among us.

G'night folks.