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Featured Salvational Logic And Mr. Bill

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Grip Docility, May 22, 2019.

  1. Grip Docility

    Grip Docility Well-Known Member

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    There are some simple terms that get thrown around in reference to accepting Jesus.

    1) Justification
    2) Sanctification
    3) Atonement
    4) Propitiation

    Justification in theology always means (Made right before God)

    Sanctification is a little more complicated because this gets redefined by many conflicting theologies.

    - Some theologies state that after initial justification, the human response to “Sanctification” is a Salvational factor

    - Some theologies state this is a work of the Holy Spirit that occurs naturally as a result of hearing and believing the gospel.

    - Some theologies purport that a true Christian doesn’t sin and are Sanctified upon Justification

    - Some theologies call this perseverance and again link it to human response after Justification

    Atonement This simply means to repair something

    Propitiation This simply means to Win or Regain Favor with God.

    Logical use of these words in response to Jesus’ Death, Burial and Resurrection...

    Jesus is God... so we can now say that these matters are rested on God’s shoulders as surely as the Cross was, on Christ’s agonizing walk to (The place of the Skull).

    Justification- God’s Death, Burial and Resurrection are sufficient to Make a person right before God.

    Sanctification- Exodus 14:14 is the best way to understand this

    Atonement- When we put on Christ’s life, death, Burial and Resurrection like a Cloak... we are “Covered” like (Jacob) as he stood before (Isaac) and was seen as the “First Born Son”. The Birthright becomes ours.

    Propitiation- God the Son pleased God the Father, through His Life, Death, Burial and Resurrection... unto Favor with God.

    Now... Allow me to be clear...

    Upon Faith: Christ’s Life, is imputed to us as if it was our own. This is how we are Justified.

    Upon Faith: We are Justified through Jesus’ propitiation.

    A Justified Christian that holds to Jesus as their Propitiation, will be naturally and effortlessly Sanctified within their soul, by the Holy Spirit (Romans 8:9)

    The Atoning Covering Of Christ over our entire life (Happens upon Faith)... means we are Justified, Sanctified and Propitiated for, by Jesus.

    John 6:28-29 tells us Belief is our Work. Yeah, I said it. It takes work to genuinely believe.

    Belief has two meanings... I’ll illustrate.

    We’ll use Mr. Bill as an example.

    Mr. Bill is trapped in a burning plane and will soon die, unless Mr. Bill grabs a Parachute.

    Demon type Belief...

    Mr. Bill “Believes” The Parachute Exists. Does this save Mr. Bill? No! This is simple Belief that something is real.

    This is Demon Type Belief. They know God is real... but they don’t “BELIEVE” in Him. They believe in POWER and SELF SUFFICIENCY.

    Mr. Bill can Believe the Parachute Exists, but be too AFRAID to Have BELIEF in it to put it on. Can you say... “Oh No Mr. Bill”.

    [​IMG]

    Saving Belief

    Mr. Bill is Afraid to jump out of the plane and afraid the Parachute won’t work, but out of courage and necessity, Mr. Bill picks up the Parachute and Puts it on. Then, he Jumps!

    Imagine if Mr. Bill has the Parachute on and decides He can do better than the Parachute, so he doesn’t pull the Rip Cord, and flaps his arms all the way down....

    Mr. Bill ... would then... well (Oh No Mr. Bill)

    But... let’s say Mr. Bill has Faith in the Parachute and pulls the Rip Cord...

    Hooray Mr. Bill!!!

    [​IMG]

    What have we learned?

    Mr. Bill needed to use the Parachute with Faith to LIVE.

    If Mr. Bill tells other people that his amazing ARM FLAPPING saved him, he would be wrong.

    If Mr. Bill Said he had to FLAP his arms after the Parachute was opened, he would be wrong. Infact, his arm flapping may just cause his arms to tangle the Parachute cords and (OH NO, MR. BILL)

    If Mr. Bill says... “I saw the Parachute, Put it on and depended on it to Save me. That’s why I’m alive to this very day.”

    Mr. Bill would be telling THE TRUTH.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2019
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  2. Of the Kingdom

    Of the Kingdom Member

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    Your post has tested the rating system and found it wanting. Clearly this deserves both "winner" and "funny" ratings.

    I wanted to engage with your definitions, but I'm still laughing -- maybe next week I can share some insights. Overall this is excellent.
     
  3. Grip Docility

    Grip Docility Well-Known Member

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    Hooray!!!!! It’s working! Joy and Something appreciated out of the point!

    I’m so very thankful! Your laughter and insights to come forward in the future mean much to me!
     
  4. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    What is the act of Mr.Bill having to put on the parachute, trust in it, and pull the rip cord (in time) kind of "thing", or choice or action, in our terms, and as it applies to our faith or saving or salvation or whatever...?

    What choice or act or action, or actions, on our part, would that be, or need to be...? And is it complicated or complex, or very simple...?

    And then of course, what is it, or what would that need to be...?

    God Bless!
     
  5. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    Must it be followed up by continued works or works or efforts on our part in order to maintain or keep it, or to keep from losing it, ect...?

    God Bless!
     
  6. Grip Docility

    Grip Docility Well-Known Member

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    This old world is a plane on fire.

    I can hear the Gospel... (Propitiation) but if I don’t (Believe/Put on the Gospel), it won’t do me a lick of good...

    Now, If I believe... but I’m too afraid to move forward with my life... Trusting in Jesus, (Exodus 14:14) instead of myself, and I don’t jump... (Be led into True Belief as I have Put on the Gospel by Trusting Jesus)...

    I’m still in trouble.

    But, If I hear the Gospel... (See the Parachute/Propitiation) ... Put on the Gospel (Atonement) through Belief... then (Jump) (Embrace Justification) ... and Pull the Ripcord (Remain in True Belief/Sanctification)

    Knowing full well Arm Flapping (Self Righteousness) doesn’t help, but actually hurts the situation...

    A safe landing will be had.
     
  7. Grip Docility

    Grip Docility Well-Known Member

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    That kind of Self Maintenance work to help the Parachute amounts to a lot of useless arm flapping.

    IMO. John 6:29
     
  8. Blade

    Blade Veteran Supporter

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    Pfft all you did was date some of us haha.... 1st season.. Dec 1980... holy Jesus.. I can hear it.. OOOH NOOOOOOO

    What WORK is not done? Can't be this flesh we need to change.. its no longer I that sin but in that is in me. No longer "I". Belief.. yes we can say... I believe Jesus came in the flesh died on the cross for the worlds sins.. is the only way to the Father with ... only with our head not our heart, meaning.. not saved. So...now this is the part we cant see "heart". We cant judge based on what we SEE the person do aka flesh.... thats not the heart. We only see flesh. Its not the WORKS that saved us.. some think and I can understand this view.. we must always be pressing forward .. a truth praise GOD...but.. my WORKS do not prove I am saved. That part is finished. No..please not osas or the flip.. not talk about that lol

    As I and forgive me.. as He told me.. I stand right now before Him only because of what Christ has done....I am holy pure sinless before my Father.. since He sees me through Christ what Christ has done. The Father is faithful to what Christ HAS done. See I think so many of us see this different yet.. can be the same. For me my sin was ALWAYS before me.. and the word talked about if my heart convicts me I wont get anything from God.. I was ready to quit.. really walk away.. yet all He did was ask me what "righteousness is" And then "how to you get righteousness". By faith in ..believing in Jesus. I read not to long ago..not sure I agree with it.. still thinking about it "God expects us to fail". I can SEE this.. but..

    So.. I am not in the plane.. already jumped haha. I made the choice NOT to believe what comes from this flesh..but what HE has done and what He said. Sorry if I missed what you were saying
     
  9. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    If a person stops breathing, they stop living.

    If someone is not "for Jesus", they are against (opposed to) Jesus.

    THere is no in-between.
     
  10. Grip Docility

    Grip Docility Well-Known Member

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    Amen ... and an Lol to your employed humor. Well said!

    You got it word for word, by the way. <3
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2019
  11. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    These are actions or works or work we have to decide and do though right...? Cause isn't "remaining" also maintaining, and isn't that by our own works or efforts, or self-effort, will, ect...?

    What is the act of putting on the Gospel, and jumping, and pulling the ripcord, ect, ect... What does it translate into in our daily lives...?

    God Bless!
     
  12. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    Breathing is not something we have to be conscious of or work at or whatever though...?

    Is being for or against Jesus supposed to be the same way...? Or not...?

    God Bless!
     
  13. Grip Docility

    Grip Docility Well-Known Member

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    We hear, and believe of our limited ability. He then brings us into all Belief.

    Once the ripcord is pulled... it’s a free fall of faith.
     
  14. Grip Docility

    Grip Docility Well-Known Member

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    Belief, once sealed as faith in His work alone... in faith, is made as easy as breathing, by Him.
     
  15. James Murphy

    James Murphy New Convert To Lutheranism

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    So is Mr Sluggo the Calvinist in this example? :p:smilingimp:
     
  16. Grip Docility

    Grip Docility Well-Known Member

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    Sure, as long as they teach and believe John 6:28-29 :p:smilingimp:
     
  17. Grip Docility

    Grip Docility Well-Known Member

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    Mr. Bill was saved by True Belief imparted to him, when he placed ALL of his TRUST/FAITH/BELIEF in Jesus.
     
  18. TheSeabass

    TheSeabass Well-Known Member

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    Belief alone is dead and remains useless and dead until acted upon. Not until "Bill" jumped and pull the ripcord did he act on his belief and his belief proven by his actions.

    As James says "If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works."

    'Belief alone', just wishing they will be clothed and fed is useless. Just talking about it does not clothe or feed them. Just like belief alone and wishing and simple words are useless, belief unacted upon is just as useless.

    Lack of works shows, proves lack of faith while works show, prove faith. Not works of merit nor works of the OT law but a faithful obedience in doing the will of God. One must have obedient works to prove he has faith at all.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2019
  19. Grip Docility

    Grip Docility Well-Known Member

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    Come let us reason together. Though our sins are as red as crimson, He makes us white as snow.

    Our Obedience is “True Belief”. Jesus made this clear in John 5:28-29; John 5:38-39; John 6:38-39 ... We do evil... (Matthew 7:11) only God does good (Mark 10:18)

    As the joke goes... Superman does Good, we do “well”.

    The work of the Holy Spirit is not a Carnal cooperation.

    We do not fight against flesh and blood. We should not tell others, nor expect ourselves to do the work of the Holy Spirit.

    Exodus 14:14

    Absolutely, we are led into the “Physical Gospel” naturally, out of gratitude...

    But I maintain Sanctification is the work of God and not to be judged by man.

    Incidentally, I am a Belief only believer and I believe the book of James when exegeted in totality can lead no Christian to any other conclusion.

    James 2 eradicates Carnal Judgment Of one another, unless someone desires the full Law to be imputes Against them. (James 2:10)
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2019
  20. TheSeabass

    TheSeabass Well-Known Member

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    The only correct conclusion that can be gained from James is that one is NOT justified by faith only.

    In your OP, if "Bill" had belief only then he would have never jumped but sat on the airplane doing nothing.

    Similar example, "Bill" is on the third story of a building that is on fire. The firemen below tell "Bill" to jump and they will catch him and bring him to safety.
    --If "Bill" has belief only he will do nothing, just wish he was not in the burning building and will end up being burned.
    --If "Bill" has a belief that will save him he will act on that belief and jump to safety in the net.

    The safety net Jesus provides for men to jump into to be saved consists of belief (John 8:24); repentance (Luke 13:3), confession (Matthew 10:32-33) and baptism (Mark 16:16). Many, many do not have faith in what Jesus says but try and save themselves from the burning building by their own means.
     
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