Salvation

[Chris†opher Paul]

Originally posted by Othniel


To us, we cannot have free will, and have God be omniscient...but to say such a dreadful thing is to limit the power of God. I will do no such thing.

I agree with most of your post Othniel, but I propose that we can understand free-will existing with the omniscient power of God. It is possible to know the future, without causing the future. And at the same time, He can use our actions (good or evil) for His own ends.

 

[NRutman]

Originally posted by Othniel
Here lies the error...the Bible says "Lean not on your own understanding." That means when it comes to theology, any argument which rests on "think about it" is doomed to fail. The inherent nature of God's paradoxes is that we cannot understand them. To us, we cannot have free will, and have God be omniscient...but to say such a dreadful thing is to limit the power of God. I will do no such thing.

The Bible is full of stories about people who choose or do not choose. Without free will, we make those stories lies. Without free will, God is the cause of sin, and therefore owes us salvation.

To argue about this is useless. "Don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments because you know they produce quarrels." (2 Tim 2:23)

If you want to believe that you don't have freewill, then believe you don't. Meanwhile, let those of us who want to strive for God, strive. We know it is not by our own strength, but a gift. Meanwhile, we will pray for you that you do not grow lazy and forget that we must strive after our goal and work out our salvation with fear and trembling.

Peace to all who seek it,
<><

We, as people, do have a will. But to think it is free of all interactions from God goes far beyond what the Bible teaches of us. As to limiting the power of God, what you don't understand is that I am attempting to limit our power, which you claim we have before God. It is not God whom I wish to limit (nor who is the one that is in deed limited).

I hope this better communicates my points,
Nate

 

[VOW]

To NR:

My mind is truly intrigued by your statement that you are not trying to limit God. I love that!

We cannot fathom God. Yet in today's world, there are many faiths that try to explain Man and God's relationship, saying that Man has the "potential" to become God, or that God is in all of us, and we must strive to achieve that perfection.

I'm sure you know the stuff I'm talking about.

That makes me laugh, it truly does. Because if ANYTHING limits God, it's the notion that we mere humans could ever achieve a status even close to what He is. That's similar to an ant saying when he grows up, he will be an elephant.

The God I worship, the God I tremble before, the God I acknowledge, is much, much, MUCH MORE powerful than that! People are no more than a speck of dust that He could flick from the back of His hand.

THAT is what makes the miracle of the salvation of Jesus's gift to us so incredibly fantastic! SomeONE that tremendous, that powerful, that HUGE humbled Himself by becoming a mortal man, and paying the ultimate price for MY SINS.

What incredible love!


Peace be with you,
~VOW

 

[NRutman]

Vow,

I agree with you completely, unless your statements go to the extreme that we can know nothing of God. The smaller the ant and the larger the elephant, the more accurate your illustration is. However, you claim Salvation (and I have no reason to doubt your Salvation) so therefore you must know something of God. Is this not because He has revealed Himself to you? In the same way, I am convinced that Him choosing me, and He holding onto me have been revealed to me by the Spirit, for I did not come to hold these beliefs through the ideas of man, but rather the ideas of God recorded in Scripture. Now you may challenge this notion, and I do not hold within my power the ability to prove it to you. I suppose we will both only know for sure before His throne.

I claim no power over God, nor do I ever think I can be like Him. However, what I do know is that His grace is at work within me, and His mind alone holds all of the mysteries of the universe. I only see in part.

I hope that adds clarification,
Nate

P.S. I'm not sure where you got the idea that I was claiming that God is in all or that I can be like God, but if you could point me to my words which confused you, I would like to correct them for everyone else's understanding also.

 

[VOW]

To NR:

Oh, Heavens, no, I wasn't identifying you with the New Age BS. I was making a blanket statement, that everyone (unless he or she has been hiding under a rock for a few decades or so) has been exposed to the New Age/Karma/Utopia/Reincarnation blah blah blah.

God is so vast we SHOULDN'T know Him, but we see Him through His magnificent creations, and of course, by His Grace. To me, God is evident in beautiful mountains, breathtaking sunsets, the miracle of a baby, or the majesty of the stars in the night time sky. *I* certainly don't have anything close to the power that it would take to create any of those!

Then, to hear the message of Jesus, and to understand that the All-Powerful Almighty God who created all those awesome things LOVED us so much to assume a human nature and DIE for us...........it blows me away.

To NOT know God, I believe, you must make yourself intentionally blind.



Peace be with you,
~VOW

 

[itsalldone]

Blessings via the SPIRIT of HOLINESS,

To know your salvation is true, how about this as a true test?
And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. Galatians 5:24

or this one:
But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. Romans 6:22

Now I want to thank Jesus for His blood!
[move] [/move]

 

[Andrew]

".... nor do I ever think I can be like Him."

We are suppose to be like Jesus and we will end up being like Jesus

Ro 8:29* For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.