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Salvation

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Chris†opher Paul, May 31, 2002.

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  1. NRutman

    NRutman New Member

    35
    +0
    Vow,

    I have no clue what all of those abbreviations mean, but I hate to bring you news that you do a great disservice to Scripture by even supposing that a contradiction exists. I desire to ignore no Scripture, nor do I think it contradicts itself - for God cannot contradict Himself or His kingdom would fall. I have been explaining what I do (and I think what God does) with Scriptures that reference anyone "falling away".

    Sorry if that sounded harsh, but I think you should reconsider what you just said. There is truth to be found, and it doesn't depend on what anyone believes, but only what God does in fact.

    May we all mature in faith,
    Nate
     
  2. NRutman

    NRutman New Member

    35
    +0
    Look up "repent" in your dictionary...mine says:
    "To feel such regret for past conduct as to change one's mind regarding it"
    Isn't this what I did?

    Nate
     
  3. isshinwhat

    isshinwhat Pro Deo et Patria

    +605
    Eastern Orthodox
    What Christ did on the cross was to make us good in the sight of God. Through Christ we can become adopted sons of the Father. Through Christ, our deeds which once were worthless now have merit.

    It isn't just about covering sinners up, it's about making them new :)

    Neal
     
  4. VOW

    VOW Moderator

    +15
    Catholic
    Married
    To NR:

    OSAS=Once Saved, Always Saved
    OSNAS=Once Saved, Not Always Saved

    This argument has taken place on these boards in this forum many, many times. And it always degenerates to the two sides throwing Scriptures at each other. OSNAS shows Scripture saying that Salvation is a journey, that we must persevere to the end, that no guarantees are given. Paul makes references to this numerous times in his Epistle. And I've seen the OSAS school of thought bounce right back, with their Scriptures, saying "NO, you are WRONG."

    The fact is, THERE IS CONTRADICTION.

    For instance, Paul, to the Church in Galatia:
    Galatians 5: 19-21
    Paul is talking to the CHURCH, to those who are "saved." Yet he's telling them, "You do these things, you will LOSE the kingdom of God." To lose something, you must HAVE it first!

    Galatians 5: 25
    WHY would Paul even bother telling this to people who are "saved"? He's giving them DIRECTIONS on how to live a Christian life. Why bother with that? Well, he's telling them what to do, what NOT to do, so they don't lose their inheritance!


    Peace be with you,
    ~VOW
     
  5. NRutman

    NRutman New Member

    35
    +0
    Good call! Sorry for the confusion. I meant that being a Christian is not trying to just live a good life by yourself. Thank you for the correction!


    Once again, right on!

    Thank you,
    Nate
     
  6. NRutman

    NRutman New Member

    35
    +0
    Vow,

    You are correct that Paul is writing to the churches in Galatia, however is everyone that goes to your church saved? I know there are unsaved people at mine. Going with the same train of thought, Paul does not say anyone will lose anything. He simply lists actions of certain people, and then states that those people will not inherit the kingdom of God.

    However, this does not mean that Christians cease to sin. Christ's sacrifice makes us holy in the sight of God (so we are no longer sinners to Him).

    Just a few thoughts,
    Nate
     
  7. NRutman

    NRutman New Member

    35
    +0
    I apologize, but this thread is getting to the point where I am being asked the same questions that I already answered, and the result is not helpful to those I intended to help. I believe it is at this time that I should humbly bow out of the conversation. I invite anyone who desires to learn more about the good doctrines of sin, grace, and the meaning of the Cross to send me a private message, and I will get back to you as soon and as best as I can (although, being human I reserve the right to reply "I don't know":)).

    My prayer is that the peace and joy of God the Father will be with you as you learn more about our wondrous Savior, and His excellent Cross.

    In Him,
    Nate
     
  8. Messenger

    Messenger Simplicity of Life

    +37
    Christian
    No

    Jeremiah 7:8
    "Behold,you trust in deceptive words to no avail. Will you steal, murder, commit adultery, swear falsely, burn incense to Ba'al, and go after other gods that you have not known, and then come and stand before me in this house, which is called by my name, and say, 'We are delivered!"--only to go on doing all these abominations? Has this house which is called by my name, become a den of robers in your eyes? Behold, I myself have seen it, says the Lord. Go now to my place that was in Shiloh, where I made my name dwell at first and seat I did to it for the wickedness of my people Isreal. And now because you have done all these things, say the Lord, and when I spoke to you persistently you did not listen, and when I called you, you did not answer, therefore I will do to the house which is called by my name, and in which you trust, and to the place which I gave to you and to your fathers, as I did to Shiloh. And I will cast you out of my sight, as I cast all your kinsmen, all the offspring of E'phriaim. "As for you, do not pray for this people, or lift up cry or prayer for the,, and do not intercede with me, for I do not hear you. Do you not see what they are doing in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem? The children gather wood, the fathers kindle fire, and the women knead dough, to make cakes for the queen of heaven: and they pour drink offerings to other gods, to provoke me to anger. Is it I whom they provoke? Says the Lord Is it not themselves, to their own confusion? Therefore thus says the Lord God: Behold, my anger and my wrath will be poured out on this place, upon mand and beast, upon the trees of the field and the fruit of the ground: it will burn and not be quenched."
     
  9. VOW

    VOW Moderator

    +15
    Catholic
    Married
    To NR:

    I am maintaining that "those certain people" are indeed the ones who are saved, for this reason. If they were NOT saved, then no matter what they did, be it a sin listed by Paul, or be it a righteous act, they would not obtain the kingdom of God.

    Yes, Paul lists those actions that will cause someone to LOSE the kingdom of God. The saved are the only people who would be in jeopardy of not obtaining something they already had, or what they THOUGHT they had.

    Think of it this way. If Paul was talking to the general population of sinners, and said, "Do not do these works of the flesh, or you will not obtain the kingdom of God," what difference would it make WHAT those people did? If they had not acknowledged Jesus as the Christ, who died for their salvation, then who cares if they keep doing those sinful works of the flesh?

    Abstaining from licenciousness, greed, acts of envy, any of those sins will not gain you salvation. Paul's words are empty to those who are not saved.



    Peace be with you,
    ~VOW
     
  10. Messenger

    Messenger Simplicity of Life

    +37
    Christian
    You must live your life pleasing to God in order to truely have salvation The Letter of Jude

    We are to hold strong to our salvation and not sway. It is a great mistake to grab the gift and no longer fear the lose of salvation if this leads you to willingly sin.
     
  11. isshinwhat

    isshinwhat Pro Deo et Patria

    +605
    Eastern Orthodox
    Thanks, Vow!

    Neal
     
  12. Messenger

    Messenger Simplicity of Life

    +37
    Christian
    Romans 11:17 But if some of the branches were borken off, and you, a wild olive shoot, were grafted in their place to share the richness of the olive tree, do not boast over the branches. if you do boastremember it is not you that support the root, but the root that supports you You will say, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in." That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast only through faith. So do not become proud; but stand in awe. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spore you. Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness: otherwise you too will be cut off. And even the others, if they do not persist in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again. For if you have been cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these natural branches be grafted back into their own tree.
     
  13. Defender of the Faith 777

    Defender of the Faith 777 Well-Known Member

    +4
    United Ch. of Christ
    On another thread NRutman. I made some comments that I regret making. Fact, but said derogitorily. I'll join you on another thread Nate. I feel bad coming back to this thread. I truly did not represent Christ. I apologize with complete sincerity.

    I'll join you on another thread Nate. TTYL Jesus loves you!
     
  14. altya

    altya Servant of God

    +260
    Non-Denom
    Yes, when you are God’s sheep and you listen to His voice, God knows you and you follow.


    This does not speak of a time when you know Jesus for a moment. Or that you gave your heart to Jesus when you are emotionally convinced. Many people are walking around the earth that ‘think’ they are saved because they are ‘re-born’. But there is a re-born (salvation) of your soul as well.

    1Pe 1:9 receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

    This is speaking of a continuously live changing experience. You have to take up your cross and follow Jesus, plus you have to know God, and this is reachable when you study the bible plus worship God in Spirit and truth. This means GROWTH.

    1Pe 2:2 as newborn babes, long for the spiritual milk which is without guile, that ye may grow thereby unto salvation;
     
  15. VOW

    VOW Moderator

    +15
    Catholic
    Married
    To Altya:

    ABSOLUTELY!


    Peace be with you,
    ~VOW
     
  16. altya

    altya Servant of God

    +260
    Non-Denom
    Thanks Vow,
    I have seen, only Christians who really growth from a spiritual baby unto the stature of Christ understand this. I too grow with ‘fighting and arguing’ in the flesh until I understood the growing process. I don’t think we will stop growing while we are on earth but praise God its so worthwhile.
     
  17. Messenger

    Messenger Simplicity of Life

    +37
    Christian
    The whole quote didn't paste but just wanted to say very well stated. Love and God Bless :clap: :hug:
     
  18. altya

    altya Servant of God

    +260
    Non-Denom
    Thanks Messenger - God Bless you
     
  19. Othniel

    Othniel Cup Overflowing

    151
    +0
    Altya, God blesses me with your Spiritual understanding and your gentle and quiet Spirit. Thank you for letting Him use you the way He does!

    Peace to all who seek it,
    <><
     
  20. altya

    altya Servant of God

    +260
    Non-Denom
    Thanks for this very nice compliment
     
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