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Salvation loss. Is it possible?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by ChristianIssues, Jul 15, 2017.

  1. ChristianIssues

    ChristianIssues Newbie

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    I believe it is possible for a heaven bound Christian to end up condemned. There are many passages describing this but I believe the parable in Luke 12:42-46 is one of the clearest.

    In this parable, the word "manager" is singular, showing that there is only one faithful and wise manager being spoken of. Looking at the verses, we have:

    a) V.42 tells us of a faithful and wise manager (obviously a saved man) who is put in charge while the master (Jesus) is away.

    b) Vs. 43-44 say that the servant will be rewarded and put in charge of all the master's possessions if the master returns and finds that the servant has remained faithful.

    c) Vs. 45-46 then tells us that the same servant will be condemned and assigned a place with the unbelievers (in hell) if the master returns and finds that he is sinning and mistreating the other servants etc.

    To say that the servant will be assigned a place with unbelievers makes it obvious that he was a believer initially.

    To me, this is one of several parables and passages which clearly show that a Christian can be rewarded or condemned, depending on his actions.

    Loss of salvation is a vitally important issue.

    What do you think of this parable?
     
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  2. faroukfarouk

    faroukfarouk Fading curmudgeon

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  3. ChristianIssues

    ChristianIssues Newbie

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    The list of items in those verses are all external influences on us. God promises to keep believers through them. However, sin is not mentioned. It is an internal influence and always separates us from God as Isa. 59:2 tells us. When we are "in Christ", and not "in sin", we are under God's protection. One cannot be "in Christ" and "in sin" at the same time.

    How do you interpret the parable in the OP?

    God bless,
    Mick
     
  4. faroukfarouk

    faroukfarouk Fading curmudgeon

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    Romans 8.1 speaks of those who are not under condemnation, and it describes their walk.

    I don't see someone who goes to hell as a believer, as ever having been a believer.
     
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  5. Haipule

    Haipule Well-Known Member

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    I don't speak French so don't know what you mean by "salvation". That word is Latinized from the Latin salvationem. I also don't speak Latin. However, I do know the Greek sOtEria which is a very general word and means: rescue, save, deliver, preserve, make whole, keep safe and sound, etc, etc.

    God promises sOtEria for His sheep. He promises to in no ways cast out anyone who comes to Him. The one parable of the lost coin, lost sheep, lost son in Luke 15 tells us this. He promises His sheep life abundant. And that sheep do not suffer the 2nd death: just those pesky goats. So I say:

    OSAS--Once a Sheep, always a Sheep!
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2017
  6. ByTheSpirit

    ByTheSpirit Pray always!!

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    It is very possible because salvation is not something anyone has until they get to heaven. We are saved from God's wrath (ie the lake of fire)
     
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  7. ChristianIssues

    ChristianIssues Newbie

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    Amen, but note that it says that there is no condemnation for those who are "in" Christ - those "who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit". We must remain in Him, led by the Spirit, otherwise we will be condemned, just like the servant in the parable of Luke 12:42-46.

    If you check the parable out closely you will see that the servant mentioned must have been saved as Jesus said that if the servant remained faithful then He would put him in charge of all His possessions. However, if Jesus found that the servant had gone into sin then he would be condemned. (Note that there is only one servant in the parable.)

    But, how do you understand the parable?

    God bless,
    Mick
     
  8. ByTheSpirit

    ByTheSpirit Pray always!!

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    Warnings in scripture to BELIEVERS about remaining faithful:

    “You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.”
    ‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:4‬ ‭NIV‬‬

    “Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.”
    ‭‭Galatians‬ ‭6:7-8‬ ‭NIV‬‬

    "The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Jesus Christ our Lord."
    Romans 6:23

    “For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.”
    ‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:13‬ ‭NIV‬‬

    “The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.”
    ‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:19-21‬ ‭NIV‬‬

    These are just a few examples of the possibility of a believer losing their inheritance through unbelief and worldly living. Otherwise the scriptures make a bunch of empty threats.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2017
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  9. ChristianIssues

    ChristianIssues Newbie

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    The parable in Luke 15:4-7 says (about the lost sheep) "when he finds it" but in Matt. 18:12-24 it says, "if he finds it" so it is IF and WHEN the sheep is found. That is not ironclad proof that salvation can't be lost.

    How do you interpret the parable mentioned in this OP?

    God bless,
    Mick
     
  10. ChristianIssues

    ChristianIssues Newbie

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    Amen, otherwise God is a toothless tiger.
     
  11. anna ~ grace

    anna ~ grace Newbie Supporter

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    I think that you are right. Parables like this lead me to begin to question the main theological crux of the Reformation.
     
  12. ChristianIssues

    ChristianIssues Newbie

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    Hello there Gracia. I don't understand what you mean.
     
  13. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    Losing salvation as in losing one's car keys?
     
  14. anna ~ grace

    anna ~ grace Newbie Supporter

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    Hey, Sir. I mean, understanding that works are truly, somehow, in a way that I couldn't exactly articulate, are a part of our salvation is the conclusion I finally came to. Through going over parables like that one over and over, and realizing that Salvation, not later outcomes of salvation, was being pictured.
     
  15. ChristianIssues

    ChristianIssues Newbie

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    Hello Gracia,
    The parable in Luke 12:42-46 is telling us that we must remain faithful to Jesus otherwise we will be condemned. Being faithful is nothing more than following the leading of the Holy Spirit and repenting of any sin we may commit.

    It is true that a saved person will do good works. James said that if a Christian does not do good works then he has a dead faith. I have a little blog on the subject of Faith and Works at
    Faith and Works | Christian Issues

    God bless,
    Mick
     
  16. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    Lets say there is this train called Jesus, that you can board, and
    the train is headed for Paradise. You can get on the train, which
    is a free ride by-the-way, and possibly you can get off.

    The issue is that the train is going, and it has only one destination.
    It's a sad day if somebody gets off, but the train is going and the
    ride is free and that never changes.

    If you get off, you stand alone and are tormented by your decision
    for eternity.
     
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  17. Theadorus

    Theadorus Active Member Supporter

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    Yep. God did not force us to get saved, so therefore God will not force us to stay saved either. If we want to, for whatever stupid reason that may be (you would have to be completely insane to trade in heaven for hell, after experiencing the true awesomeness of God), we can jump off of that train, and like you said, we'd regret the decision for the rest of our lives.

    Therefore It's my belief that a person who is truly saved cannot end up in Hell. I do not believe that a person can "lose," or sin away their salvation, but rather, a person can throw it away. You can say that I'm in the camp of, "once saved always save," BUT, like I posted above, you are not forced to keep your salvation, and God will not force you to stay on that train either.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2017
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  18. faroukfarouk

    faroukfarouk Fading curmudgeon

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    You and I don't read Scripture in the same way.

    It's God's faithfulness to me that I rest on; Romans begins and ends talking about 'the obedience of faith' / 'obedience to the faith'. An obedient walk is a characteristic of those who truly believe, not of those who prove - like the person in parable - that they don't really believe and trust at all.
     
  19. Dave Watchman

    Dave Watchman Well-Known Member

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    They're too tricky for me, the parables. Like dreamlike outlines meant to help me understand. But none can snatch me from His Righteous Right Hand. Even the vessels designed for destruction are servants to the Designer. Remember Pharaoh's heart. But be confident of this,

    "that He who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus".

    The minute that you first believed in the Lord, you were in. Sorry, you are one of the elect, picked from before the foundation of the universe.

    And He who began this good work WILL see it through.
     
  20. Theadorus

    Theadorus Active Member Supporter

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    Stewards are people who have been entrusted with administering other people’s wealth or affairs. The possessions stewards control are not their own, and they do not have the freedom to do with them whatever they wish. They are supposed to carry out the desires of those who made them their stewards.

    Bankers are stewards. They have been entrusted with other people’s money. They are free to invest that money wisely in ways that will benefit their depositors and stockholders but would be sent to jail if they took all that money and simply consumed it upon themselves. Stewards are accountable (Luke 16:2) to other people for the use of their money. The money does not belong to them even though it is in their possession.

    This parable and other scriptures (1 Corinthians 4:1, Titus 1:7, and 1 Peter 4:10) state that all of us as believers are stewards of God’s grace. The wealth, talents, and abilities we possess, as well as the revelation of God’s love that we have, are not our own to do with as we please. We have received these things from God and are therefore accountable to Him for the use or misuse of these gifts. Keeping this in mind is essential for fulfilling our obligation to God as stewards of His “manifold grace” (1 Peter 4:10).
     
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